George/Lexus & Casey's Contact Pattern

[JWG]

Here is something to chew on.:eat:

Without trying to detail the mergers and acquisitions in the wireless provider business over the past few years and determine the affect in the Orlando area, consider that in the past four years ATT, Cingular and Verizon have all merged or consolidated wireless business.

Now, with that in mind, I found an interesting post on a wireless forum from an industry specialist discussing Cingular / ATT that had the following excerpts:

The cell tower handles calls. Call detail records (CDRs) are accumulated by the switches to which the cell sites connect, and are transmitted to the rating/billing system. That system applies rate plans to the CDRs, and spits out billing records.

Cingular, apparently, has not migrated, and does not intend to, the AT&T CDR processing from the AT&T rating centers to the Cingular rating centers. This is a choice, and is not some magical, insurmountable technical hurdle.

To convert the AT&T rating system would involve infrastructure alterations in order to get the AT&T switches to send the CDRs to the Cingular rating systems, and likely would also involve new software to convert the AT&T CDRs to the format the Cingular system expects to rate.

Rather than pay for the changes, and also very likely risk problems, Cingular chooses to maintain two separate networks, two separate billing and rating systems, and chooses to no longer service the AT&T side of the business.

I am not saying this is the specific source of the Lexus / Gentiva confusion. What I am pointing out is that as part of business consolidation multiple CDR and billing systems are being asked to inter-operate, and a repeatable glitch is bound to happen here and there.

 

[AZlawyer]

Here is something to chew on.:eat:

Without trying to detail the mergers and acquisitions in the wireless provider business over the past few years and determine the affect in the Orlando area, consider that in the past four years ATT, Cingular and Verizon have all merged or consolidated wireless business.

Now, with that in mind, I found an interesting post on a wireless forum from an industry specialist discussing Cingular / ATT that had the following excerpts:



I am not saying this is the specific source of the Lexus / Gentiva confusion. What I am pointing out is that as part of business consolidation multiple CDR and billing systems are being asked to inter-operate, and a repeatable glitch is bound to happen here and there.

But no "glitch" is going to change calls from KC to some random non-involved business into calls from KC to her mother's work that tend to be in close proximity to calls from KC to her mother's cell.

Take a look at the "whereabouts of KC June 17-20" thread, where I have just posted about another apparent random error in the tower records...looks like the two mysterious "9999" calls after the 2 pizza calls were really just 2 more pizza calls (per the billing records)!! And the numbers are NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT CLOSE to the "9999" numbers and are NOT SIMILAR TO ONE ANOTHER either but are both franchises of the same pizza chain. Now again...what are the chances that KC REALLY called 2 pizza places and then 2 cell phones ending in "9999" in the middle of the night--which we are totally unable to identify--but the billing records had a "glitch" that made it APPEAR that she called 2 other pizza places instead? It would be an awfully big coincidence if the billing system picked 2 random numbers to replace the "real" 9999 calls and the 2 random numbers just happened to be to the same type of business she had just been calling and also happened to be 2 totally dissimilar numbers to franchises of the same chain.

Tentative conclusion...the tower records are more complete but less reliable??? Or possibly....the tower records are great except if they show a number ending in 0000 or 9999 in which case we'd better check them against the billing records???

 

[AZlawyer]

Another example....407-433-9999...this is a number that shows up in the tower records on 6/29/08 at 6:06 pm but is not in the billing records. I identified this as a "Location Routing Number" for an Orlando "LATA switch." A "Location Routing Number" is "used to route calls to numbers that have been ported," but I have no idea what any of that means. :crazy:

 

[travelgal]

WOW! Just wow! You sleuthers (JWG, AZ, Bond, et al) are just amazing. I hope you don't mind that I am lurking around from time to time in hopes of making sense of all the technical stuff that goes way over my head. Many thanks to all of you for making it a whole lot clearer for my simple mind. I am amazed and truly in awe of your collective skills. LE & SA should check here for valuable details.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow:

 

[ibyoungr]

Another example....407-433-9999...this is a number that shows up in the tower records on 6/29/08 at 6:06 pm but is not in the billing records. I identified this as a "Location Routing Number" for an Orlando "LATA switch." A "Location Routing Number" is "used to route calls to numbers that have been ported," but I have no idea what any of that means. :crazy:

bolded by me.. I believe and could be wrong.. but a long time ago we were assigned phone numbers by our area... then a few years back we could choose to keep our number and have it "ported" to another company even in a different state. Each company has their own switches.

My guess is that when a "ported" number is called, it goes to the location routing number and then sent thru this LATA switch which then sends the calls to the correct switch that has the correct number.

(much like when I ping a computer name from another computer it goes through a DNS server which looks up the name and then relates it to the correct MAC, and then it looks that up on the DHCP server getting an IP address and subnet and then sends that out to the correct switch that is configured with the subnet where the computer is located)

Sorry for the geek speak...

I've been incredibly busy the last month but have been reading all the posts.
I love you guys as well... this has been giving me some interesting reading on my down time.

Many people check their bills religiously.

Billing records have to be correct or there would be alot of unhappy people. Imagine a husband calls his work place and just somehow the Tower records the number of a single woman and then that info is sent to the billing records... wife checks and says hmmmmm.....:furious:
She calls the number and sexy Suzy answers...



I spoke with my daughter who used to work at Tmobile and helped people with their bills.
She did not believe that the tower captured the number for billing, only to route the call... like the tower records are not converted to billing after the fact. That the billing software is working at the same time and simutaneously with the tower.

So the person makes the call.
Pings the tower. Tower looks records the caller's ORGINATING NUMBER. It sends the Destination Number through the switch, it checks
Is it ported? If so, it sends it to another place that checks the routing table and sends the call to the correct number...
If not, the calls goes straight to the correct exchange where that phone is located.
Once the phone begins to ring, ... the billing software kicks in at first ring and records the number that is ringing and the number that has the "tunnel open" so to speak(orginating number).. it starts to record information after the vm or someone answers. Is this a friend in the circle, is this a night, is this a weekend? etc. etc....

My daughter does not believe the cell tower record does all the recording and then the data converted to the billing software. She learned that bill is correct and if the number is bad ON THE BILL it is because someone dialed wrong or they are calling someone they aren't supposed to be.

Make sense? :hypno:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Another example....407-433-9999...this is a number that shows up in the tower records on 6/29/08 at 6:06 pm but is not in the billing records. I identified this as a "Location Routing Number" for an Orlando "LATA switch." A "Location Routing Number" is "used to route calls to numbers that have been ported," but I have no idea what any of that means. :crazy:

Very interestingk, AZ...:waitasec: Suggesting 9999 and/or 0000 as having some meaning beyond the destination #....hmmmmm

Commenting w/o checking it myself yet (iow being lazy) could these be calls whose transmissions began, but, were aborted in-process? :waitasec: Hafta go look. That kinda outcome might fit well w/ a "flurry" dial situation...:waitasec: But wouldn't make sense since twocents: )some of these connected. :waitasec: Surely, "Private number" designations have no effect on tower records?

OK...all join together now...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[BondJamesBond]

WOW! Just wow! You sleuthers (JWG, AZ, Bond, et al) are just amazing. I hope you don't mind that I am lurking around from time to time in hopes of making sense of all the technical stuff that goes way over my head. Many thanks to all of you for making it a whole lot clearer for my simple mind. I am amazed and truly in awe of your collective skills. LE & SA should check here for valuable details.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow:

Please stick around travelgal. Sumbodies gotta call for medical assistance when we all go loopy. Buddy-rule and all

 

[BondJamesBond]

...just 'cause I haven't whacked the nest today... :bee: :bee: :bee:

And not that it proves anything (of course), actually, just 'cause it digs the hole a little deeper IYKWIM...

If Lexus=Gentiva...

For the period entire 6/1-7/17... if these are Gentiva calls...why do they appear on 6/16 and cease on 6/25?

MON 6/16/08 4:10:41 PM
MON 6/16/08 4:14:48 PM
TUE 6/17/08 2:12:56 PM
WED 6/18/08 12:33:17 PM
WED 6/18/08 4:13:26 PM
THU 6/19/08 4:20:20 PM
FRI 6/20/08 1:53:19 PM
FRI 6/20/08 2:54:38 PM
TUE 6/24/08 11:20:01 AM
TUE 6/24/08 2:48:20 PM
WED 6/25/08 12:52:46 PM
WED 6/25/08 1:36:41 PM
WED 6/25/08 2:13:01 PM
WED 6/25/08 2:18:03 PM​

Granted Cindy wasn't @ work 6/2-6/8 (and week ~7/4 IIRC), so those go out obviously, but, wouldn't one expect at least one call to this number if it were Gentiva prior to 6/16? After 6/25?

• They're all weekday calls. So...OK...that's a little something.
• There are 2 calls on a Friday (George's day off, but, could be working his days off)...OK...doesn't tell us much.
• At least 1 call every weekday M-F of the first week of Caylee's murder. :waitasec: So...OK...something to do with needing/wanting to place someone...gotta know where all the players are when your driving around w/ your daughter's body in the trunk of your car. OK...mildly helpful.
• Calls continue until mid-week the following week with Monday, 6/23, being the ONLY weekday in the continuous string that a call isn't placed to this number. So...OK...didn't need to place peeps on Monday 6/23 for some reason. :waitasec: Lemme see...ran outta gas that day @ ~2:44PM on the way to G&C's w/o making an advance is-the-coast-clear? call smack dab in the middle of what woulda been the 'typical' ~1:30PM-4:30PM time to call this number based on the other days (2 exceptions re: timing) :waitasec:
• Calls abruptly end after 6/25. OK...6/26 was a very, very 'down' day. Appears Casey stayed @ Tony's the entire day, a day for classes for Tony, IIRC. 6/25 was pretty much a down day too. :waitasec:

No answers...just whackin' the nest. :takeoff:

 

[leemarie85]

First off, I totally agree with travelgal...this newbie really appreciates all the hard work you WS'ers do, all the research, etc. I want to be just like you when I grow up!

Now, regarding the calls to Gentiva ending on 6/25, I think there are some pretty good reasons why this would happen. IIRC, on 6/24 is when KC returned the "effin' gas cans" and learned that a police report had been filed. She seemed very nervous about GA getting near the car, and I think that perhaps this was just too close of a call for her to risk it any more. Also, IIRC, Tony said something about KC 'moving in' with him around 6/26 in his LE interview. Again, thanks to all of you for your hard work, it is much appreciated!

 

[TallyHo]

OK guys - I have a question. Probably a silly one, but I'll go ahead and ask away. Assuming this number is Gentiva, and also assuming that Cindy thought Casey was in Tampa in the 24th time range, do ya'll think it's possible that she just mentioned the gas can theft to Casey in passing when Casey was calling her to spew her BS about Zanny, Jeff, accidents, HardRock, staying in Tampa longer than expected, etc. If this is the case, she would have been told by George on the 24th that Casey was not in Tampa as she had said. Is there an interview in which Cindy states that she tipped Casey off about the gas cans, or am I dreaming that? I've read so much sometimes it's hard to remember what was "canon" from the interviews and what was from someone's comments! :crazy:

ETA from Cindy's deleted file in discovery (undated):

"can't sleep, stupid hot flashes wake me up then I start thinking about you and Caylee. Dad said he went to work at 9am and he got home at 630p, he said he did not come home in between. I don't know who or what to believe anymore. You've told me everyday that you were going to call me and you haven't but you choose to call when you know I won't be home. What the hell is going on? I've tried not to bug you to death but I still haven't gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. It's been over a month now. Am I ever going to see her again? Are you still with Jeff? Are you going back to work? I saw on the news that Anheiser Busch is being bought by a foreign company that does not want the theme parks only the beer part of the Co. What is that all about they're talking Disney or Universal may get to buy the theme parks. I thought Universal already merged with them? I'm not sure how much longer I can continue on this day to day course. I'm going freakin nuts not knowing whats going on with you. I had a breakdown at work, can't take much more stre"

It seems that Cindy either did not know about the gas can incident on the 24th or did not believe George if he did tell her. She does say above that she does not know who to believe anymore, which implies to me that she was just about as skeptical of George as well. Who knows, maybe Casey had a "But mom, Dad's lying about me!" conversation with her on the 25th and then decided to really avoid them as she pretty much had been busted. Just trying to come up with a reason for the cessation of calls after the 25th. I really am starting to wonder how much George might have figured out about Casey and couldn't get Cindy to believe him. It would explain a lot, I think.

 

[BondJamesBond]

OK guys - I have a question. Probably a silly one, but I'll go ahead and ask away.

*snipped*
Hey! Hang on there. I'LL ask the silly questions 'round here! :crazy:

But since you asked the question...the next best thing I can do is provide a silly answer. :bang:

Assuming this number is Gentiva, and also assuming that Cindy thought Casey was in Tampa in the 24th time range, do ya'll think it's possible that she just mentioned the gas can theft to Casey in passing when Casey was calling her to spew her BS about Zanny, Jeff, accidents, HardRock, staying in Tampa longer than expected, etc. If this is the case, she would have been told by George on the 24th that Casey was not in Tampa as she had said. Is there an interview in which Cindy states that she tipped Casey off about the gas cans, or am I dreaming that? I've read so much sometimes it's hard to remember what was "canon" from the interviews and what was from someone's comments! :crazy:

The crux of it is that Cindy & George claim to Greta that Cindy had already talked to Casey 'bout the gas cans being stolen, hence, in George's tale of the 24'th Casey spontaneously brings the subject up first. Problem is...unless Lexus=Gentiva there is no record that we can find of a contact between Cindy & Casey between the time George allegedly discovered the gas cans missing (~10AM 6/24) and the time Casey arrived that afternoon. There IS a call to the Lexus/Gentiva # from Casey's phone ~11:20AM, IIRC. So...that would fit the bill IF the # belongs to Gentiva. Capice?

And I snipped it outta here, but, as you pointed out...many WS's have thrown the BS-flag @ the 6/24 gas can drama reality vs. the ZFG-in-Tampa-but-had-to-get-insurance-papers-thats-why-Casey-suddenly-appeared-for-no-reason inconsistency that Cindy now claims she bought & buys. Bottom line...Cindy & George are doing what they feel they must. "Damn the torpedoes!"

It seems that Cindy either did not know about the gas can incident on the 24th or did not believe George if he did tell her. She does say above that she does not know who to believe anymore, which implies to me that she was just about as skeptical of George as well. Who knows, maybe Casey had a "But mom, Dad's lying about me!" conversation with her on the 25th and then decided to really avoid them as she pretty much had been busted. Just trying to come up with a reason for the cessation of calls after the 25th. I really am starting to wonder how much George might have figured out about Casey and couldn't get Cindy to believe him. It would explain a lot, I think.

*snipped*
I'd say you have the dynamic pretty well nailed, TH. Similar to your assessment we have the George-chase-story-to-the-FBI that Cindy claimed never happened. And on a broader scale we know Cindy & George were going through divorce proceedings circa '05, IIRC. Stories abound about George being culpable for putting the family in financial trouble. If you search the OC civil cases you'll find some stuff w/ George and a couple of credit card companies circa 11/07, IIRC. I fully expect Casey played Cindy against George like a :boohoo:

Keep noodlin'!!

 

[nobull]

Many people check their bills religiously.

Billing records have to be correct or there would be alot of unhappy people. Imagine a husband calls his work place and just somehow the Tower records the number of a single woman and then that info is sent to the billing records... wife checks and says hmmmmm.....:furious:
She calls the number and sexy Suzy answers...



I spoke with my daughter who used to work at Tmobile and helped people with their bills.
She did not believe that the tower captured the number for billing, only to route the call... like the tower records are not converted to billing after the fact. That the billing software is working at the same time and simutaneously with the tower.

....

My daughter does not believe the cell tower record does all the recording and then the data converted to the billing software. She learned that bill is correct and if the number is bad ON THE BILL it is because someone dialed wrong or they are calling someone they aren't supposed to be.

No offense intended to the OP, but what service reps are TOLD and what is actually DONE is not always true. I used to work in the internet industry, and wayyy back in the dark ages was in charge of one of the first beta test cable modem installations in the country for what is now known as Charter Communications. I would trust the word of an engineer ANY DAY HANDS DOWN over that of the billing department. I can't tell you how many times working well with the engineering crew saved my $$$ when dealing with billing was :banghead:.

ETA: The purpose of a billing/customer service dept is not only to bill the customer. If the billing/customer service dept makes mistakes in the customer's favor, it is a cost of doing business and has the secondary value of making the consumer happy and ensuring their satisfaction. In other words, it is subjective. Engineers are objective.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I can't tell you how many times working well with the engineering crew saved my $$$ when dealing with billing was :banghead:.

Engineers are objective.

*snipped & bold by me* And just to be clear for the record if this gets quoted, nobull, you did start off respectfully by stating your intent was 'no offense'.

...on behalf of engineers everywhere. :highfive:

The point I was attempting to make earlier, and I think JWG alluded to it, is that typically there is a system from which the technical information originates, and that system feeds data to other systems that manipulate it for their intended purpose (e.g. billing, etc.). It may all happen almost simultaneously, but, AFAIK, there aren't truly real-time redundant data capture set-ups for cell calls. The rubber-meets-the-road @ the cell tower switching. Not saying there can't be mistakes there too...just making a general observation from my little universe of experience.

 

[AZlawyer]

Some of us have noticed that there are times in Casey's phone records where a "voicemail waiting" message appears with no apparent incoming call to trigger the voicemail.

After comparing Casey's cell records to George's cell records, it appears that at least four of these calls were from George, bringing to 6 the total number of calls from George's cell to Casey during the time period of interest:

June 16 (Caylee's likely date of death):
3:04 pm 0 minutes (immediately following a call from George to the house, despite the fact that he supposedly knew the house was empty by then)

July 3 (The day Cindy went to Universal in a fruitless attempt to "pick up" Caylee, then sent Lee to look for Casey at a nightclub):
2:39 pm 2 minute voice mail
5:15 pm 2 minute voice mail

July 7:
8:24 am 4 minute voice mail

July 8 (the day Casey dropped Amy off at the airport and started borrowing her car):
9:05 am 5 minute conversation

July 14 (the day after George and Cindy found the registered letter notice at the front door and the day before George picked up the registered letter and retrieved the car):
8:21 am 3 minute voice mail

Some of these voice mails are pretty long. It doesn't take 4 minutes to say: "Hi, Princess. Hope everything is going great in Jacksonville. Give us a call, OK, sweetheart?"

 

[TallyHo]

Some of us have noticed that there are times in Casey's phone records where a "voicemail waiting" message appears with no apparent incoming call to trigger the voicemail.

After comparing Casey's cell records to George's cell records, it appears that at least four of these calls were from George, bringing to 6 the total number of calls from George's cell to Casey during the time period of interest:

June 16 (Caylee's likely date of death):
3:04 pm 0 minutes (immediately following a call from George to the house, despite the fact that he supposedly knew the house was empty by then)

July 3 (The day Cindy went to Universal in a fruitless attempt to "pick up" Caylee, then sent Lee to look for Casey at a nightclub):
2:39 pm 2 minute voice mail
5:15 pm 2 minute voice mail

July 7:
8:24 am 4 minute voice mail

July 8 (the day Casey dropped Amy off at the airport and started borrowing her car):
9:05 am 5 minute conversation

July 14 (the day after George and Cindy found the registered letter notice at the front door and the day before George picked up the registered letter and retrieved the car):
8:21 am 3 minute voice mail

Some of these voice mails are pretty long. It doesn't take 4 minutes to say: "Hi, Princess. Hope everything is going great in Jacksonville. Give us a call, OK, sweetheart?"

Absolutely. It seems to me that that George knew or suspected KC's employment status and/or lifestyle. He sure knew to call the house after KC should have been gone to work. Wading through all of this for the last year I have come to the conclusion (MOO) that George was wise to her, but couldn't make Cindy believe him. I think that KC was really good at pretending to be "supportive" of her mother at times and get her to swallow all of the BS. I think she was probably pretty adept at creating a "wedge" between Cindy and George. To me, this theory explains a lot of the dynamics that were going on prior to Caylee being murdered. Now, exactly who knew what after June 15/16, I don't know. :crazy:

 

[AZlawyer]

Assuming that the "Lexus" number is really Gentiva (Cindy's work) for the reasons discussed at length above , this would fit with Cindy's FBI testimony (at the end of part 8 of her interview) that Casey called her that evening and told her that she and Caylee would be staying at Zanny's.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18051643/index.html

 

[Hollys G-mom]

How far is the dealership from the Anthony home? That should tell something. That may give a clue for the 24th.

I think she was checking up to see if he was home or not. GA may have got suspicious, drove home..put his car in the garage closed to make it appear no one home.... BHAM, kc shows up and gets caught by GA.

Yea! That sounds palusable....NOT! Why would he even do this as at thatt time he had no reason to suspect Casey or anyone else for that matter of any wrong doing.

 

[MissJames]

Yea! That sounds palusable....NOT! Why would he even do this as at thatt time he had no reason to suspect Casey or anyone else for that matter of any wrong doing.

KC and Caylee suddenly stop living at home,their is no sign of Caylee for a week [remember,CA was the usual babysitter]and they are now aware that KC not only stole from them,but her grandparents as well.Are you kidding me? GA had plenty of reason to suspect wrongdoing.He lived with KC,he knew her.He knew.

 

[Intermezzo]

How far is the dealership from the Anthony home? That should tell something. That may give a clue for the 24th.

I think she was checking up to see if he was home or not. GA may have got suspicious, drove home..put his car in the garage closed to make it appear no one home.... BHAM, kc shows up and gets caught by GA.

Yea! That sounds palusable....NOT! Why would he even do this as at thatt time he had no reason to suspect Casey or anyone else for that matter of any wrong doing.

If I remember the date correctly being the 24th, Before going to work, George and Cindy went to the Bank to deposit a check. I seem to remember in his LE interview George stating that he returned home but I don't remember the reason for him doing so instead of going straight to work from the bank.

IMO, I don't think GA suspected any wrong doing in regards to Caylee being alive or not, but I do believe he was suspicious about the run around Casey was giving the family about them wanting to see Caylee and Casey purposefully staying away from them.

 

[AZlawyer]

If I remember the date correctly being the 24th, Before going to work, George and Cindy went to the Bank to deposit a check. I seem to remember in his LE interview George stating that he returned home but I don't remember the reason for him doing so instead of going straight to work from the bank.

IMO, I don't think GA suspected any wrong doing in regards to Caylee being alive or not, but I do believe he was suspicious about the run around Casey was giving the family about them wanting to see Caylee and Casey purposefully staying away from them.

George had the afternoon off on June 24 because he had an interview later that day with the new co. he ended up working for starting July 14.