George/Lexus & Casey's Contact Pattern

[LCoastMom]

Assuming that the "Lexus" number is really Gentiva (Cindy's work) for the reasons discussed at length above , this would fit with Cindy's FBI testimony (at the end of part 8 of her interview) that Casey called her that evening and told her that she and Caylee would be staying at Zanny's.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18051643/index.html

I thought this had been confirmed and reconfirmed as being the number for Lexus. To the point that BJB and/or JGW had called the number and the Lexus switch board had answered? :waitasec:

According to George, when KC left the house with Caylee she told George that she was working late so Caylee would be staying with Zanny. He also said that she had previously told Cindy they wouldn't be home or that she had called Cindy to let her know they wouldn't be home? Am I remembering wrong? :crazy: It wouldn't be the first time!! :waitasec: or was the wrong number put on the records? How big of a coincidence would that be that a call was placed to Gentiva but the number for Lexus ended up on the record, rather than some random wrong number?

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[Intermezzo]

George had the afternoon off on June 24 because he had an interview later that day with the new co. he ended up working for starting July 14.

Thanks for the correction AZ
Was that the day he and Cindy went to the bank? or am I confusing that event date.

Ok just went back to read the June 24th thread and that was the day they went to the bank and then George went back home....does anyone remember if GA said WHY he went back home?

 

[LCoastMom]

bolded by me.. I believe and could be wrong.. but a long time ago we were assigned phone numbers by our area... then a few years back we could choose to keep our number and have it "ported" to another company even in a different state. Each company has their own switches.

My guess is that when a "ported" number is called, it goes to the location routing number and then sent thru this LATA switch which then sends the calls to the correct switch that has the correct number.

(much like when I ping a computer name from another computer it goes through a DNS server which looks up the name and then relates it to the correct MAC, and then it looks that up on the DHCP server getting an IP address and subnet and then sends that out to the correct switch that is configured with the subnet where the computer is located)

Billing records have to be correct or there would be alot of unhappy people. Imagine a husband calls his work place and just somehow the Tower records the number of a single woman and then that info is sent to the billing records... wife checks and says hmmmmm.....:furious:
She calls the number and sexy Suzy answers...

So the person makes the call.
Pings the tower. Tower looks records the caller's ORGINATING NUMBER. It sends the Destination Number through the switch, it checks
Is it ported? If so, it sends it to another place that checks the routing table and sends the call to the correct number...
If not, the calls goes straight to the correct exchange where that phone is located.
Once the phone begins to ring, ... the billing software kicks in at first ring and records the number that is ringing and the number that has the "tunnel open" so to speak(orginating number).. it starts to record information after the vm or someone answers. Is this a friend in the circle, is this a night, is this a weekend? etc. etc....

My daughter does not believe the cell tower record does all the recording and then the data converted to the billing software. She learned that bill is correct and if the number is bad ON THE BILL it is because someone dialed wrong or they are calling someone they aren't supposed to be.

Make sense? :hypno:

Wow! I wonder if Alex Bell had any idea this is where his idea would end up!? Actually I don't even want to say end up, rather where his idea would go along the way to where it will some day end up. When some one in Toledo places a direct call to there relative vacationing on Saturn or some other distant world!

I keep picturing 2 little kids with a long string and a couple empty cans! You've come a long way baby!! :blowkiss:

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[AZlawyer]

I thought this had been confirmed and reconfirmed as being the number for Lexus. To the point that BJB and/or JGW had called the number and the Lexus switch board had answered? :waitasec:

According to George, when KC left the house with Caylee she told George that she was working late so Caylee would be staying with Zanny. He also said that she had previously told Cindy they wouldn't be home or that she had called Cindy to let her know they wouldn't be home? Am I remembering wrong? :crazy: It wouldn't be the first time!! :waitasec: or was the wrong number put on the records? How big of a coincidence would that be that a call was placed to Gentiva but the number for Lexus ended up on the record, rather than some random wrong number?

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BBM

There is no question which number is Lexus and which number is Gentiva (Cindy's work). Where the AT&T phone records disagree is on which of those two very very different numbers was actually called by KC. I think the lengthy discussion on this point (with links) is earlier in this thread.

There is really no coincidence if the number called was Gentiva (Cindy), but the wrong number that ended up on some of the records was Lexus (i.e., a number with no connection whatsoever to the case--a "random wrong number" as you called it). Where there would be a BIG coincidence would be if KC was REALLY calling someone at Lexus and then some of the phone company's records just so happened to show the Gentiva number instead, where her mom worked!! It would be as if you dialed a random number and then your phone bill showed up saying you called your sister!

Which is why I tend to believe that the AT&T records showing the Gentiva number are a lot more likely to be correct than the AT&T numbers showing the Lexus number.

Since this came up, I have noticed a lot of other errors in the AT&T records that show the Lexus number. They seem to be a lot more COMPLETE than the other records that show the Gentiva number, but they seem to be a lot more WRONG as well.

 

[AZlawyer]

Thanks for the correction AZ
Was that the day he and Cindy went to the bank? or am I confusing that event date.

Ok just went back to read the June 24th thread and that was the day they went to the bank and then George went back home....does anyone remember if GA said WHY he went back home?

He said he went back home to get ready for his interview with Andrews International.

 

[wanttohelp]

He said he went back home to get ready for his interview with Andrews International.

actually he said.....

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[AZlawyer]

actually he said.....

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Interesting. Check out p. 41 of his FBI interview:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/9270627/Casey-Anthony-George-Anthony-Statement-2008

He talks about the stimulus check, then says "I drove all the way back home 'cause I had an interview....at 6:30 that night. So, I went back home to get myself collected, cleaned up. ... As I got home I know it was like 2:25 or 2:30 as I'm inside getting ready for this interview that I had...."

 

[Woe.be.gone]

GA testified that on June 15, 2008 he was working for a company called Security Forces based out in Altamonte. He said, "They had me assigned to a location that -- Orlando Utilities Commission on Pershing Drive." (pg. 300, lines 16-20)
He stated that it was located about 10 minutes from his home and he got off work at 11:00. He stated further that he drove straight home and the house was dark when he got there. Therefore, he meant 11 PM.

Also, regarding the identity of the phone number - if it were a mistake in the phone records it would have shown up at other times than just the two weeks after Caylee's death - the number was heavily called between two weeks in June of 2008 and then not again. A call also originated from the number early one morning to the Anthony's home phone. My question is, why would the AT&T mistake occur only during the two week period following Caylee's death?

I stick to the theory that KC had a contact at Lexus during the time of Caylee's death that she needed only during that time. Otherwise, the mistake would show up at other times as well imo.

 

[wanttohelp]

GA testified that on June 15, 2008 he was working for a company called Security Forces based out in Altamonte. He said, "They had me assigned to a location that -- Orlando Utilities Commission on Pershing Drive." (pg. 300, lines 16-20)
He stated that it was located about 10 minutes from his home and he got off work at 11:00. He stated further that he drove straight home and the house was dark when he got there. Therefore, he meant 11 PM.

Also, regarding the identity of the phone number - if it were a mistake in the phone records it would have shown up at other times than just the two weeks after Caylee's death - the number was heavily called between two weeks in June of 2008 and then not again. A call also originated from the number early one morning to the Anthony's home phone. My question is, why would the AT&T mistake occur only during the two week period following Caylee's death?

I stick to the theory that KC had a contact at Lexus during the time of Caylee's death that she needed only during that time. Otherwise, the mistake would show up at other times as well imo.[/B]

bbm
what is it you are saying here? the point? thanks.

 

[Just Jayla]

Have we ruled out FrankM as maybe having worked at Lexus? Or maybe a DBC guy....I am thinking KC met a guy that worked at Lexus that, while flirting and/or drunk, boasted that he could get her a dealership car to ride around in...and she decided to take him up on it once she needed to dump the car...

I bring up FrankM because their contact was weird and very limited, yet they seemed familiar...and he's, well, look him up...

 

[AZlawyer]

Have we ruled out FrankM as maybe having worked at Lexus? Or maybe a DBC guy....I am thinking KC met a guy that worked at Lexus that, while flirting and/or drunk, boasted that he could get her a dealership car to ride around in...and she decided to take him up on it once she needed to dump the car...

I bring up FrankM because their contact was weird and very limited, yet they seemed familiar...and he's, well, look him up...

After a lot of back and forth, we figured out there were never any actual calls to Lexus. All of those calls were really to Cindy's work (Gentiva).

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Not to argue but I don't remember figuring out that no calls were ever made to Lexus. The contact remains unknown though.

They are two separate numbers - Cindy's versus Lexus.
Adding - Gentiva has two numbers, 629-7992 and 629-5765; Lexus is 407-671-0000 or 407-678-2000.

 

[AZlawyer]

Not to argue but I don't remember figuring out that no calls were ever made to Lexus. The contact remains unknown though.

They are two separate numbers - Cindy's versus Lexus.
Adding - Gentiva has two numbers, 629-7992 and 629-5765; Lexus is 407-671-0000 or 407-678-2000.

Sorry, I was oversimplifying. What we actually know for sure is that the AT&T cell tower records show a bunch of calls to the numbers for Lexus, whereas the AT&T billing records for those VERY SAME CALLS show that they were calls to the numbers for Gentiva. The actual numbers are provided in both the cell tower records and the billing records, so one set of records is just wrong on these calls.

IMO there is no possible way that these calls were really to someone Casey knew at Lexus and the AT&T billing records just happened, by an incredible coincidence, to say that they were instead calls to a business where Casey's mom happened to work. That would be like walking down the street in an unfamiliar neighborhood, stopping to answer a pay phone that's ringing, and finding that it's your sister on the line!

Much more likely is that it's the tower records that are in error. (BTW I have found lots of other errors in the tower records as well.)

 

[scrabble]

Are Cindy and George working again, and did Lee ever marry that gal?

 

[Just Jayla]

After a lot of back and forth, we figured out there were never any actual calls to Lexus. All of those calls were really to Cindy's work (Gentiva).

I knew that! I was just checking to see if you guys knew that....:doh:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi WantToHelp & Bond & JWG & all:

Something's bugged me about the Lexus thing - like I thought we learned here in the forum that the Lexus calls/number was identified incorrectly at somepoint in the docs. I found this link to some docs.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155616.pdf
(please see page 20 for spreadsheet of Casey Anthony phone logs)

The phone number & call times you are identifying as Lexus on 6/16 - on this log - are identified as Gentiva. I called the number - it is Gentiva.

It's just been bugging me because I remember reading here in the forum something about the Lexus number being corrected to Gentiva. IIRC.

See what you think. Page 20. 6/16/08. Call times 4:14 (16:14) and 4:19 (16:19). Clearly identified as Gentiva.
Where on your logs, these calls from Casey are identified these calls as calls to Lexus.

I don't know which call logs you are using, that say Lexus. Maybe we can find out which of these call logs was issued most recently.

I'm looking for any info I can find to go with this document dump that says call records were corrected from a previous dump.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76112&page=2

Above is the thread I remembered reading - where this 2nd doc dump of casey's phone log had the Lexus calls changed to Gentiva.

JWG, Bond, you were discussing this back then on this particular thread, page 2. So, likely you already know about this.

(Sorry if I've brought up a document dump you've already reviewed and determined to be wrong - with regard to a possible Gentiva/Lexus phone switch.)

Crazy how little things stick in your head and just bug you when they come up again later, such that you have to go back and dig, if you want any sleep at all. Isn't it? Okay, maybe I'm crazy. If I am, this case is my excuse. :crazy:

This was the confusion created by the "toll call" log LE released. They made some errors in that log. JWG toiled away for hours on a mistake they made re: Matt Crisp, IIRC. Then we spotted the Lexus/Gentiva thing...

When you go back to the raw report created by AT&T you get the real deal.

Can someone link to the raw AT&T data just so we can all confirm that we're not crazy?

I'm sorry to say that I'm as confused as ever.
Can someone link to the original 'raw' records. JWG points out in the second link in another WS thread, post no. 48 in the link above, that there had been a mistake made. Maybe he'd explain his opinion then and how he arrived at his opinion now - if it's different.

I see where the typed records within the above link (wesh) omit any number that makes reference to Lexus (as a matter of fact under KC's telephone tolls on the date of 6/17 (14:12), one can tell that a line has been changed/altered).

How did someone arrive at the final verdict? I'm not looking at original records. Please?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just to add, the "logs" that were released in the late November document dumps were created by LE from the ATT information. IIRC one of the document dumps (may have been the same one) included an exchange between ATT and OCSO in which ATT claimed they did not have the records in digital format so they faxed hardcopy. Uh, wonder what they extracted and printed the hardcopy from :waitasec:.

So OCSO had to do what we had to do - manually create tables or spreadsheets from the hardcopy.

The sleuther's process was to scan the documents in and use OCR software to get the information "close", import it into a spreadsheet and manually make corrections as necessary. Lot's of keen eyes looking at the data and cross-checking acted as our quality control. Nevertheless, I find errors all the time.

I am guessing LE had far fewer man hours to invest than what the Sleuthosphere could invest, so they focused on just specific days of interest. Data was manually transcribed from the records. While LE had (presumably) better information on who had what number, mistakes were still easy to make in the transcription process.

At the end of the day, we have to take the ATT records as being the golden source. If an error had been found in them by LE and corrected, how could any of the ATT record be trusted?

I have wondered if this is something we could offer to LE and the SA's office - our spreadsheet (after a final, solid, once-over) and their number ownership.

bumping from page 10 of this thread.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3428862&postcount=27"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters & Facts **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**[/ame]

Is this explanation obsolete?

 

[AZlawyer]

I'm sorry to say that I'm as confused as ever.
Can someone link to the original 'raw' records. JWG points out in the second link in another WS thread, post no. 48 in the link above, that there had been a mistake made. Maybe he'd explain his opinion then and how he arrived at his opinion now - if it's different.

I see where the typed records within the above link (wesh) omit any number that makes reference to Lexus (as a matter of fact under KC's telephone tolls on the date of 6/17 (14:12), one can tell that a line has been changed/altered).

How did someone arrive at the final verdict? I'm not looking at original records. Please?

bumping from page 10 of this thread.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters & Facts **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**

Is this explanation obsolete?

What we found when we looked at the original "RAW" records (which I will not link here as they are full of non-redacted personal information and numbers that I don't have time to redact) is that the Lexus numbers appeared in some of the "RAW" records (the cell tower "ping" records) and the Gentiva numbers appeared in other "RAW" records (the billing records), for the very same phone calls. So looking at the original records didn't really help us. At that point, we had to decide which was more likely: that Casey called her mom at work and there was something screwy with the tower records--or that Casey called some unidentifiable person at Lexus (usually right after trying to reach her mom on her cell phone) and there was something not only screwy but wrong on an astronomically improbable level with the billing records.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I always did enjoy a rousing game of kick-the-can when I was younger, especially when I got to hide in the bushes with that brunette a couple houses down :nluv:.

Anyway, you did not ask me to talk about 6th grade. You wanted help with the reams of phone records and analysis dumped out there over the past 9 months. So let me take a crack at it :gavel:.

Following is an inventory of records I have...it may not be complete, but I tried :bang::

• KC ATT Cell Data Records, dated 8/21/2008, discovery pages 432-582. This is an "ATT CDR LIVE w/Cell Sites" report, and is the source of Bond's Exhibit A. It shows a Lexus phone number in the calls that are in question.

• KC Calls June 15-20, pages 2570-2582. This is a LE-generated report (probably from a spreadsheet) that shows Gentiva and the Gentiva number in the calls that are in question. The source of the document is not known.

• KC ATT Cell Data Records, dated 8/11/2008, discovery pages 4334-4496. This is an "ATT CDR LIVE w/Cell Sites" report that was released in the March 5 document dump. It shows a Lexus phone number in the calls that are in question, and all of them have been highlighted.

• KC ATT Cell Data Records, date not shown, discovery pages 4144-4290. This is an "ATT CDR LIVE w/Cell Sites" report that was released in the March 5 document dump. However, this one has additional LE annotations showing names of who was called or had placed a call. It shows a Lexus phone number in the calls that are in question, and it explicitly states that the call was to Lexus of Orlando.

• KC ATT Cell Data Records, dated 7/28/2008, discovery pages 4515-4570. This is an "ATT CDR LIVE w/Cell Sites" report that was released in the March 5 document dump. It shows a Lexus phone number in the calls that are in question.

• An FDLE report entry, dated July 29 (page 4300) lists all of the calls as being to Gentiva and shows the Gentiva phone number. The complete report closes out on December 11, 2008.

• Spreadsheets were included in the April 6 document dump containing KC's cell phone records from ATT. All are copies or subcopies of one another. The file "TRUE FULL COPY of Casey Anthony CELL PHONE records from AT&T.xls" was used as the source input data for our CellLogRev14.xls, replacing the previously hand-edited scanned version that had undergone so many corrections in the past. This file is dated November 3, 2008, and shows a Lexus phone number in the calls that are in question.

The date the report was generated is not known, but it was clearly before November 27, the date of the dump.
​

• Also in the document dump are KC's cell phone billing records, dated July 17, 2008. These records show a Gentiva phone number in the calls that are in question.

(The final two items described above do not have discovery pages associated with them. They are part of a zipped data file that was included in the April document dump.)

So, what conclusion can I draw? :waitasec: Well, if I boil it down, the ATT billing records say Gentiva, and the ATT cell tower records say Lexus. It is that simple. (Full disclosure: I do not own ATT stock ... thankfully :yow:.)

Where is LE is parked on this? :cop:

Well, the latest date of an annotated report - January 22, 2009 - shows Lexus. Also, they gave a file dated November 3, 2008 the name "TRUE FULL COPY of Casey Anthony CELL PHONE records from AT&T.xls" - and this file says Lexus. And the kicker...in November's interview of Ricardo, LE asked him if he knew of anyone that worked at the Lexus dealership. Clearly they were serious about the possible Lexus connection.

But here is why they may be wrong:

In one of George's interviews where he describes the gas can incident with KC on June 24, it is KC's comment "Oh by the way, I talked to mom, I understand something happened here at the house" that prompts George to want to look in the trunk for the gas cans.

Remember that George discovered the gas cans were missing just that morning.

Anthony home phone records released in the April dump show George called Gentiva at 9:49 AM, and then he called Cindy's cell at 10:21 AM and 10:22 AM. KC showed up at the house at roughly 2:30 PM.

The cell tower records do not show any calls between Cindy and KC on June 24 until 2:45 PM, where based on the pings it appears Casey is leaving the home - gas can incident done. However, the "CDR Live" records do show a six minute call to Lexus at 11:20 AM. In the "billing records" the 11:20 AM call shows as a call to Gentiva.

It appears that the only way KC could have spoken to Cindy between 9:45 AM and 2:30 PM is if the call was in fact to Gentiva and not Lexus.

Okay, I'm digesting the thorough explanation above.
GA's terminology, ". . ., I understand something happened here at the house." is a strange way of asking if KC took the gas cans out of the shed imo. :waitasec: GA's oddly worded remark jumped out at me for the first time just now.