George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

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MeeBee

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nearly every jury in every trial i've witnessed has been beseeched to use common sense. this is not news to most of you.

complaining that the prosecutor asked jurors to use common sense? what a crock. some of the comments here are really beyond the pale.

i guess it's good timing that work is calling...

MOO

When Juan Martinez asked his jury to do the same thing, people were like YES! That's what lawyers do. And the evidence was on Juan's side. <mod snip> BOTH sides are getting overrun with emotion I feel.
 

cityslick

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Nope. He wasn't at his house. He was "almost" there. We really do not have any idea how close he was since RJ was on the phone and wouldn't know Trayvon's exact location.

I tell my son that I am almost home, near home, by the house, etc...when I am at different distances.

IMO

I keep saying that RJ said TM told her he was behind his dad's house and I even provided a link. What does behind the house mean to you?
 

MeeBee

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Some still look boyish. Some look like men, IMHO, and have a full bushy beard and all their adult height at 17.

Trayvon was one of those kind, IMHO.

Not mine. He still looked like a boy to me IMO. He did not look like a man. He was tall and fit, but he still had the face of a teen. IMO.
 

MeeBee

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Completely untrue. I could show you a pic of kid I know that has been 6'2 since 13. Many many teen boys are big quick and stay that way.

They can be tall but they still look young and boy-ish and undeveloped. My husband was a very tall kid but looked very young until he was at least 21. That's MOO.
 

AngelWings444

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WFTV reporting that one juror had tears. :cry: Not at all unusual before someone jumps on this...
 

PrairieWind

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He did it because Guy just lied about what reasonable doubt is..You know what he says about liars...They are murderers...IMO

It is pretty rare to object in a closoing argument. But Guy did misrepresent the law. And since this is states rebuttal closing, there is no other opportunity for the defense to correct the error, so there is really no other choice but to object.
 

TupeloMz

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I think what we're dealing with here, and the distinction, is what did he APPEAR to be to GZ. Not whether he was legally of age, not whether he had the decision making abilities of an adult, but what was in GZ's mind in a physical battle with TM.

He's the size and strength of an adult, is what's being said here. He looks like an adult.

I have 3 sons and watched all their friends mature to be men - and that happened when they were about 16. The moms would laugh, hey, who's that man and what has he done with your son?

Because suddenly, around age 16, they are visually men where just 2 years prior they were lanky adolescents.



IMHO

I get what you are saying, and I have thought on this alot lately, but TM "appearing" older to GZ at the moment does not change the fact that TM was a minor. An example.....statutory rape....defendant "well judge she didnt look 16." Doesnt matter.. she is still a minor and its still a crime.. jmho
 

Mahouston69

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I thought TM was already home according to RJ?

I missed it. Did the Defense or has the defense claimed he made it home?
They said, he could have....
He should have......
If he was behaving like a good......(self filter)
And never would have been harmed.

Sigh.
 

LinTX

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Yes Yes Yes, but if he is claiming self defense they put on evidence to support their claim is this not correct?
No, the defense doesn't have to prove anything. They can offer evidence to support their assertion of self defense if they so choose - and IMO they did - but they don't have to. It's the state's burden to prove the elements charged and it's their burden to prove the defense claims are false.

IMO, the state never had enough to even charge GZ, much less take it to court. That's why you hear "This is a common sense case" "Use your heart" in their closing...because the state had no evidence to present. Only emotion, and while using "child" & "boy" to describe an almost 6ft., athletic 17 year old might evoke emotion and sympathy, those words are not evidence of anything other than desperation on their part. It also highlights for me what has always been lacking in the state's case. Evidence. IMO.
 

FrayedKnot

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It doesn't matter what TM looked like. He actually legally was a child. A minor child. That is how anyone under 18 is LEGALLY described. You know, the FACTS. Not intuition or emotion. TM was a kid. This is a FACT and the LAW.
 

glamourkitty1922

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Love it! Prosecution now flipping the people - what if TM was driving around and saw GZ, got out of his car and followed him and now GZ was dead - what would you do?

IMO

If the facts were the same, the evidence the same, I would think T Martin had defended himself from a nasty dangerous beating.
MOO:twocents::twocents:
 

ScarlettScarpetta

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When Juan Martinez asked his jury to do the same thing, people were like YES! That's what lawyers do. And the evidence was on Juan's side. It's getting silly and painful to read in here. BOTH sides are getting overrun with emotion I feel.

The difference is he had EVIDENCE AND lead them through it.

That is not what the state did.
 

Overuled

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I keep saying that RJ said TM told her he was behind his dad's house and I even provided a link. What does behind the house mean to you?

You and I have mentioned this several times- easily researched. Plus if anyone had been paying attention to testimony it would be much easier. moo
 

Karmady

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I don't have a gun or a gun permit, nor does anyone in my household. I believe George acted in self defense, and this situation makes me reconsider whether or not to have a gun. IMO George would have been severely injured or dead if not for his gun. IMO George acted within his rights, and if other law abiding citizens acted like George, maybe we wouldn't have as much crime in our society. Many people here are saying George should have just "stayed in his car", or "minded his own business". In my opinion, that is what criminals count on, people not wanting to get involved!

BTW: I am not saying TM was a criminal, and in fact, he acted within his right to walk in the rain with a hoodie, but come on, use your common sense. Does that not look odd, especially in a neighborhood that even by the prosecution's admittance, had an elevated rate of crime?

IMO, MOO, and all the other cows!

I don't have one either. Thankfully, I live in a very low crime area.
 

katiewonders

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My point exactly. And that would be my right as a juror. But my point is I would personally dismiss all of a witnesses testimony if I thought they were blatantly lying in parts. Perhaps that is because I have personal experience with a pathological liar :liar:

I agree, I've already disregarded all of RJ's testimony.
 

ScarlettScarpetta

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I missed it. Did the Defense or has the defense claimed he made it home?
They said, he could have....
He should have......
If he was behaving like a good......(self filter)
And never would have been harmed.

Sigh.

The state witness RJ under direct told us that TM told her " HE AT HIS DADDY'S HOUSE.. "

Her direct quote from testimony.
 

5bigfish5

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No wonder FL has to have every LE agency on high-alert. THE STATE begging for a conviction by bringing race into the mix is beyond the pale.
 
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