George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

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MeeBee

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Another teen (14) was just arrested in Florida...he dropped a gun as he was running, and also tried to grab a gun from an officer. I can see why people are getting afraid in some parts of Florida. imo

Why just Florida? This stuff can and does happen everywhere.
 

cityslick

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IYO though, right?

IMO the reason they keep bringing it up is to show that Trayvon wasn't armed with anything that night, other than his fists not because it makes him seem boyish or childish. In the beginning it was to show that and to show that GZ's assumption that Trayvon was armed was incorrect. I never got the inkling it was to paint him as innocent and young.

IMO

It actually wasn't my observation initially, it was on the legal panel last night. I just agree with it.

So I guess in that sense it's IMO.
 

glamourkitty1922

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JG changed his testimony to "up and down arm motions", and no, it was NOT at all clear that GZ's very minor injuries were caused by TM, as there's NO DNA EVIDENCE that points to TM punching or slamming GZ. IMO
It is reasonable to believe he was striking Zimmerman because of the facial injuries. What else would pounding downwards mean, especially if the person on the bottom has a bashed up head?

IMO:twocents::twocents:
 

qwerty2013

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this is true. ^^^:(

I only spoke to it because peeps were claiming it was theatrical to refer to TM as a child in court. But was a child. Legally. And they are in a courtroom,see. With lotsa legal junk and all. :floorlaugh:

Yeah, I can't stand the sarcasm about the fruit drink and the skittles, as if they were deliberate "props" by a malice-filled , because it was a FACT that those were what TM had on him that night, NO MORE NO LESS. IMO.
 

Moonie

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I was attacked in a similar manner as GZ and that's why I believe him. IMO, anyone who has had their head beat into a hard surface knows that the terror is overwhelming because you don't know if the next hit will be the last. And even though I'm an anti-gun liberal (and I don't think it's good to have citizens walking around armed), I would have to vote not guilty because GZ did not break any laws, he defended himself against a violent attack. IMO, head trauma should always be taken seriously regardless of whether the injuries look insignificant. JMO. OMO. MOO.

Sorry happened to you :(. Did they catch the person who did it? And did you have to tell the police what happened to you? Did you have to testify? Did you find it difficult to recall what happened to you during that attack? Any trouble recalling the facts? I imagine such a terrible event like that must be burned in your brain. Can you relate to GZ changing details from time to time in his attempt to recall the events?
 

LinTX

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Not mine. He still looked like a boy to me IMO. He did not look like a man. He was tall and fit, but he still had the face of a teen. IMO.
I suspect that what he looked like in his pics and what he looked like wearing a sweatshirt, a hoody on top of that and baggy pants are 2 very different things (see 7-11 video). Then try to see his face in the dark and in the rain while being confronted verbally and very quickly punched in the face. Not quite such a clear picture of a 'child', IMO.
 

rose222

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In my opinion Zimmerman was acting in self-defense:

ZIMMERMAN/MARTIN Evidence:
1. Rash of 8- burglaries in area in 14-months.
2. Zimmerman forms Neighborhood Watch.
3. Three weeks prior to Martin incident, Zimmerman stops Burglary in progress.
4. Previously, Zimmerman goes to aid of young mother whose apartment was broken into by two black teenagers and she defends herself with rusty scissors until police show up. He also puts lock on her sliding door, and offers emotional support from his wife he she wants to stay with him during the day.
5. Trayvon walking home with Arizona drink and skittles with THC in bloodstream equivalent to one joint in the previous 3-8 hours. (Somewhat low amount).
6. Travyon has been suspended from school and has damaged property with graffiti,had a burglary kit of a screw driver, suspected of stolen jewelry, and an a ‘empty’ marijuana bag. Apparently text messages saying TM wanted to get a gun, that he bragged about getting the upper hand in a previous fight by breaking someone’s nose, flashing gang signs and flipping people off, and others sending him messages asking how to learn how to fight are not admitted.
7. Trayvon stands on Frank Taaffe’s property.
8. 3-weeks earlier Zimmerman stopped a burglary in progress on Frank Taaffe’s property.
9. Zimmerman feels he matches description of 8-previous break-in's.
10. Zimmerman calls Non-emergency. (If Zimmerman expected a fight or a problem, why not call 911? Also, who calls the cops to the spot of a shooting before it happens?)
11. Zimmerman needed TWO radio transmissions to confirm he was black, the first one was “He LOOKS black”, the 2nd one was “Yep, he’s a black male.” Which eliminates profiling. Zimmerman calls cops, and tries to keep an eye on Martin and gives a full description to dispatch and what he was doing.
12. “Dispatcher: "Location?" Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male-late teens. Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here." (This shows Zimmerman’s fear).
13. Martin says to girlfriend, “A creepy *advertiser censored* cracker is following me.” He also calls Zimmerman a “******.”
14. Martins girlfriend says to run, Martin says, “I’m not going to run, I’m going to walk.”
15. Martin heads back to Zimmerman sitting in car with his hands in his waistband, checks to see who it is, circles the car, pulls up his hoodie to apparently hide his face and starts running.
16. Zimmerman: “These *******s always get away.” (Notice he did not use the “N” word)
17. Zimmerman says, “****, he’s running.” To Dispatch.
18. Dispatch says, “Which way did he run?”
19. Martin cuts through buildings and onto dog path.
20. GZ gets out of car and heads out on foot onto T-Intersection to see where he ran to tell the police.
21. Dispatch says, “Are you following him?”
22. Zimmerman says “Yes.”
23. Dispatch says—“We don't need you to do that.”
24. Zimmerman responds “Okay”, walks a few feet farther to check for an address and walks back toward his car, still on the T-intersection.
25. Rachel Jentel says Martin got to his ‘daddy’s fiancés house’.
26. Witness Selene S. says she heard running ‘left to right’ and is on the same side of the dog path as Trayvon’s dad---which means Trayvon had to go back running to the T-intersection to confront Zimmerman.
27. Trayvon jumps out from the concrete dog path from the side toward GZ and says, “Why are you following me?”
28. GZ says, "Are you from around here?" (according to Martins GF)
29. Martin says, “You got a problem with me?”
30. GZ says, “I don’t have a problem with you.”
31. Martin says, “You do now.”
32. Martin strikes Zimmerman in the face. They scuffle standing up and it moves down
the dog path pavement away from T-intersection.
33. Martin decks Zimmerman with a hit to the face, and is now straddling Zimmerman.
34. Zimmerman’s head is on the cement and his body is on the grass.
35. Martin is throwing punches MMA-style according to witness John Good.
36. Good tells them to stop or he was going to call 911. Martin never turns around
to acknowledge Good.
37. Martin is pounding Zimmerman’s head into the pavement. GZ is still on his back.
38. Zimmerman is yelling, Martin is telling him to ‘shut the **** up’ and trying to cover his mouth.
39. Martin lands a shot to the face and breaks Zimmerman’s nose.
40. Zimmerman is trying to slide his head off the cement and wiggle or push Martin off.
41. Note—Researching broken noses—panic sets in. Broken noses not only cause difficulty in breathing, but also causes confusion, brief loss of consciousness.
42. Martin reaches for gun. (Note—Touch DNA is a myth, especially in the rain).
43. GZ shoots Martin in the chest with an angle from left to right.
44. Martin says, “You got me.” And rolls off and falls on his stomach.
45. Zimmerman straddles Martin’s back thinking he was still going to fight back and spread his arms. (This is when some of the confused witnesses saw GZ on top).
46. Martin lives 1-3 minutes and in a reflexive move draws his hands into his chest.
47. Martin’s hands are cleaned at scene to attempt to finger print, washing away, along with rain, DNA.
48. Zimmerman is cleaned up by Paramedics at scene.
49. Zimmerman clearly has acted in self-defense with no probable cause.
50. Zimmerman was interested in protecting his community.
51. Following does not mean the aggressor in a physical confrontation.
52. Zimmerman is protected by the “Stand your ground” law. (Though not used)
53. Martin struck the first reasonable blow.
54. Under Florida law, reasonable fear equals immunity for Zimmerman.
55. Zimmerman passed two voice analyzer stress tests.
56. Witnesses and injuries and evidence are consistent with Zimmerman’s version.

Excellent. Thanks.
 

MeeBee

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It actually wasn't my observation initially, it was on the legal panel last night. I just agree with it.

So I guess in that sense it's IMO.

Then it's their opinion too because IMO that is not why I feel they keep bringing it up.

Unless you have a link backing up your claim then it's your opinion.
 

lisasalinger

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Although I hate predicting juries, my two cents on this one is that it will either be acquittal or hung. I think people are way too passionate on this case to compromise. Hung is very likely.

Just my opinion.
 

MouseTheLuckyDog

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And I hope theres no gun haters or stealth jurors either.

moo

Even if there is one ... remember what some women said in voir dire when asked what she would do if someone was arguing to not follow the law .... IIRC she said she would tell the ballif.

Worst is that a stealth juror becomes a holdout and you have a mistrial. At that point the defense goes to the Appellate Court and has a ton of Nelson's rulings overturned, and it becomes so much easier for the defense. On top of which since their are now ISP records that have vanished because of the discovery misconduct, that is prosecutorial misconduct that cannot be undone because the recfords are gone and probably result in the Appellate Court declaring a mistrial with prejudice.

Hell they might even get a new judge. If I were her I would get sick rather then retry.
 

Love Never Fails

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i'm hoping they will take all the time they need, go over every piece of evidence, if needed and not make a rush decision like the casey anthony jury did.

an innocent man (IMO)'s life hangs in the balance.

If they take "all the time they need" to review all the evidence, they should come back with an acquittal in about 45 seconds. :seeya:
 

iluvmua

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on 20/20 they are going to do the case about the guy in texas who claimed self defense.

the person who was shot and killed was a teacher.

interesting case.
 

MeeBee

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I suspect that what he looked like in his pics and what he looked like wearing a sweatshirt, a hoody on top of that and baggy pants are 2 very different things (see 7-11 video). Then try to see his face in the dark and in the rain while being confronted verbally and very quickly punched in the face. Not quite such a clear picture of a 'child', IMO.

GZ even thought he looked like a teen. This is all moot. Moving on.

IMO
 

qwerty2013

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It is reasonable to believe he was striking Zimmerman because of the facial injuries. What else would pounding downwards mean, especially if the person on the bottom has a bashed up head?

IMO:twocents::twocents:

As I mentioned in a previous thread, those could very well had been pushing and shoving motions, or restraining and pushing back motions. It is extremely telling that JG changed his testimony under oath, it means he wasn't entirely certain that those were "pound and ground", but he could be sure they were "up and down". He also stated that he did not see the slamming into concrete part, nor did he see TM inflicting any injuries on GZ' head or pounding downwards. He just saw what he saw "up and down arm motions". Must be afraid of perjury. IMO.

As for GZ's injuries, only he would know for certain what caused them, could be a fall, could be TM, could be self-inflicted, could be inflicted by someone other than TM, etc... However, *ZERO* GZ DNA on TM's hands, sleeves, etc. means no evidence that TM did it. Remember, innocent until proven guilty. And no, light rain doesn't wash DNA away, as TM's DNA was found on GZ's clothes.

IMO
 

Moonie

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Common sense. Why would Trayvon want to take GZ back to his home where there is only a 12 year old there?

GZ didn't even want to give out his information on the 911 tape, over the phone.

Ouch for GZ. JMO

And why would TM have wanted to stay on the phone with RJ as he was waiting in the bushes to ambush GZ? Makes no sense to me.
 

angell

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IMO, I perceive this as a loaded question, because the implication has been, from the very beginning of this case, that those who are vigorously seeking the truth are somehow "defending" GZ.

If I may make it clear: I am NOT defending GZ.

Mark O'Mara, Don West, et al., are defending GZ.

I'm personally defending the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond any and all reasonable doubt in a charge of 2nd degree murder.

Regarding the question of who here holds gun permits: that is their business & no one else's, unless they choose to disclose that info.

MOO

:clap:
 

sorrell skye

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JG changed his testimony to "up and down arm motions", and no, it was NOT at all clear that GZ's very minor injuries were caused by TM, as there's NO DNA EVIDENCE that points to TM punching or slamming GZ. IMO

IMO, expecting to find DNA at the scene of every crime is a direct result of the CSI effect.

Lack of DNA proves very little, IMO, and I think many seasoned investigators would state the same.

BTW: Despite what many folks may believe, presence of DNA is considered to be circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence.

MOO
 

cityslick

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TM was talking privately to his friend when he made those slurs, GZ was on a recording to NE reporting a suspicious suspect that wasn't doing anything wrong except in GZ's own mind. GZ from the get go started all this, not TM. TM wasn't reporting a suspect to any law enforcement, he was simply talking to his own personal friend and people can call anyone a racial slur in a private conversation, IMO. Hope this makes sense :blushing:

We'll just agree to disagree, especially because I don't believe everything about that phone call is factual.
 
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