George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

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defense101

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And this helps your side how?
I am not on sides, I have my opinion as to what I think happened that night and it may differ from yours, it is to show that the statement creepy *advertiser censored* cracker may not be racial IMO
 

LinTX

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GZ even thought he looked like a teen. This is all moot. Moving on.

IMO
I didn't say teen, I said 'child'. That word infers innocence and no threat and that's not the reality of who GZ saw that night. IMO
 

Foxfire

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I spent many weekends claiming Big Kennesaw and Little Kennesaw when I lived in Atlanta. Mandatory gun possession. Alright.

Yep, me too...almost everyday for 2 decades.. 'If mountains were not meant to climb, they would be flat'...
 

New1

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There is no doubt in my mind who started this physical altercation. When you look at GZ's bloody nose and cuts, lumps, and punctate wounds on his head, then look at TM's body with no signs of ever being hit except with the bullet and look at the abrasions on his knuckles, how can one not know who threw the first punch? TM not only threw the *first* punch; he threw *all* the punches. He most likely would have beaten GZ to death if he hadn't been stopped.

Some people keep saying GZ's wounds were not significant. Skin on the scalp does not even have to be broken for a skull fracture to occur, and people can die from skull fractures....many have died. The next slam of GZ's head against the concrete could have been the fatal injury.
 

Mony Mony

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Serious question:
What exactly has George lied about? I haven't heard any lies, perhaps some variations, but not lies. If I have missed some, can someone please post them?

JA lied when she said she wasn't there, then ninjas, then self defense....I haven't heard these kinds of lies from George. Am I missing something?
 

Karmady

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In the law in Florida it says anyone under the age of 18 is a child. It uses the word child.

I asked this question yesterday and don't think I got an answer. Just jumping off your post since it reminded me, but did anyone follow the Cristian Fernandez trial and know how they referred to that 12 year old during this murder trial. I'm sincerely curious.

eta: I'm guessing they called him "the defendant."
 

Mahouston69

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In my opinion Zimmerman was acting in self-defense:

ZIMMERMAN/MARTIN Evidence:
1. Rash of 8- burglaries in area in 14-months.
2. Zimmerman forms Neighborhood Watch.
3. Three weeks prior to Martin incident, Zimmerman stops Burglary in progress.
4. Previously, Zimmerman goes to aid of young mother whose apartment was broken into by two black teenagers and she defends herself with rusty scissors until police show up. He also puts lock on her sliding door, and offers emotional support from his wife he she wants to stay with him during the day.
5. Trayvon walking home with Arizona drink and skittles with THC in bloodstream equivalent to one joint in the previous 3-8 hours. (Somewhat low amount).
6. Travyon has been suspended from school and has damaged property with graffiti,had a burglary kit of a screw driver, suspected of stolen jewelry, and an a ‘empty’ marijuana bag. Apparently text messages saying TM wanted to get a gun, that he bragged about getting the upper hand in a previous fight by breaking someone’s nose, flashing gang signs and flipping people off, and others sending him messages asking how to learn how to fight are not admitted.
7. Trayvon stands on Frank Taaffe’s property.
8. 3-weeks earlier Zimmerman stopped a burglary in progress on Frank Taaffe’s property.
9. Zimmerman feels he matches description of 8-previous break-in's.
10. Zimmerman calls Non-emergency. (If Zimmerman expected a fight or a problem, why not call 911? Also, who calls the cops to the spot of a shooting before it happens?)
11. Zimmerman needed TWO radio transmissions to confirm he was black, the first one was “He LOOKS black”, the 2nd one was “Yep, he’s a black male.” Which eliminates profiling. Zimmerman calls cops, and tries to keep an eye on Martin and gives a full description to dispatch and what he was doing.
12. “Dispatcher: "Location?" Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male-late teens. Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here." (This shows Zimmerman’s fear).
13. Martin says to girlfriend, “A creepy *advertiser censored* cracker is following me.” He also calls Zimmerman a “******.”
14. Martins girlfriend says to run, Martin says, “I’m not going to run, I’m going to walk.”
15. Martin heads back to Zimmerman sitting in car with his hands in his waistband, checks to see who it is, circles the car, pulls up his hoodie to apparently hide his face and starts running.
16. Zimmerman: “These *******s always get away.” (Notice he did not use the “N” word)
17. Zimmerman says, “****, he’s running.” To Dispatch.
18. Dispatch says, “Which way did he run?”
19. Martin cuts through buildings and onto dog path.
20. GZ gets out of car and heads out on foot onto T-Intersection to see where he ran to tell the police.
21. Dispatch says, “Are you following him?”
22. Zimmerman says “Yes.”
23. Dispatch says—“We don't need you to do that.”
24. Zimmerman responds “Okay”, walks a few feet farther to check for an address and walks back toward his car, still on the T-intersection.
25. Rachel Jentel says Martin got to his ‘daddy’s fiancés house’.
26. Witness Selene S. says she heard running ‘left to right’ and is on the same side of the dog path as Trayvon’s dad---which means Trayvon had to go back running to the T-intersection to confront Zimmerman.
27. Trayvon jumps out from the concrete dog path from the side toward GZ and says, “Why are you following me?”
28. GZ says, "Are you from around here?" (according to Martins GF)
29. Martin says, “You got a problem with me?”
30. GZ says, “I don’t have a problem with you.”
31. Martin says, “You do now.”
32. Martin strikes Zimmerman in the face. They scuffle standing up and it moves down
the dog path pavement away from T-intersection.
33. Martin decks Zimmerman with a hit to the face, and is now straddling Zimmerman.
34. Zimmerman’s head is on the cement and his body is on the grass.
35. Martin is throwing punches MMA-style according to witness John Good.
36. Good tells them to stop or he was going to call 911. Martin never turns around
to acknowledge Good.
37. Martin is pounding Zimmerman’s head into the pavement. GZ is still on his back.
38. Zimmerman is yelling, Martin is telling him to ‘shut the **** up’ and trying to cover his mouth.
39. Martin lands a shot to the face and breaks Zimmerman’s nose.
40. Zimmerman is trying to slide his head off the cement and wiggle or push Martin off.
41. Note—Researching broken noses—panic sets in. Broken noses not only cause difficulty in breathing, but also causes confusion, brief loss of consciousness.
42. Martin reaches for gun. (Note—Touch DNA is a myth, especially in the rain).
43. GZ shoots Martin in the chest with an angle from left to right.
44. Martin says, “You got me.” And rolls off and falls on his stomach.
45. Zimmerman straddles Martin’s back thinking he was still going to fight back and spread his arms. (This is when some of the confused witnesses saw GZ on top).
46. Martin lives 1-3 minutes and in a reflexive move draws his hands into his chest.
47. Martin’s hands are cleaned at scene to attempt to finger print, washing away, along with rain, DNA.
48. Zimmerman is cleaned up by Paramedics at scene.
49. Zimmerman clearly has acted in self-defense with no probable cause.
50. Zimmerman was interested in protecting his community.
51. Following does not mean the aggressor in a physical confrontation.
52. Zimmerman is protected by the “Stand your ground” law. (Though not used)
53. Martin struck the first reasonable blow.
54. Under Florida law, reasonable fear equals immunity for Zimmerman.
55. Zimmerman passed two voice analyzer stress tests.
56. Witnesses and injuries and evidence are consistent with Zimmerman’s version.

Perfect summation of the DEFENSE.

Only all true if you ignore the forensic evidence or the lack thereof.

49. Zimmerman clearly has acted in self-defense with no probable cause

IF Trayvon hit GZ and I don't believe he caused the bloody nose, he had probable cause. Supported by SYG law as he did not not have to be injured first but only perceive that Zimmerman meant to harm or kill him before defending himself the only way he could.

Zimmerman is guilty of causing Trayvon's death with no probable cause.
manslaughter.
 

Love Never Fails

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In the law in Florida it says anyone under the age of 18 is a child. It uses the word child.

Yep and lots of those "children" are criminals, with parents who didn't care enougn to make sure they were at home at night. If my 17 year old wanted something from a store, I would drive them. To walk alone at night, no matter WHO you are, is not wise.
 

MeeBee

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I asked this question yesterday and don't think I got an answer. Just jumping off your post since it reminded me, but did anyone follow the Cristian Fernandez trial and know how they referred to that 12 year old during this murder trial. I'm sincerely curious.

eta: I'm guessing they called him "the defendant."

I didn't sorry.
 

FrayedKnot

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I always thought the correct legal term for a person under 18 was Juvenile of course that is not as effective as "a child". JMO,MOO

You may be right. In custody agreements, it appears that "minor child" is anyone under 18.

However, depending on the state, "minor" means under 18, but "child" can refer to a minor under 18 or 14, or sometimes 15, or sometimes 12.

So it depends on the state and the case, I guess. I have just seen alot of charging docs here on WS with "assualt on a minor child", etc so I assumed they were always used in tandem. My bad!:blushing:
 

glamourkitty1922

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I am not on sides, I have my opinion as to what I think happened that night and it may differ from yours, it is to show that the statement creepy *advertiser censored* cracker may not be racial IMO
I'm from the south and that is a racist term.

MOO
 

iluvmua

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Yep and lots of those "children" are criminals, with parents who didn't care enougn to make sure they were at home at night. If my 17 year old wanted something from a store, I would drive them. To walk alone at night, no matter WHO you are, is not wise.

trayvon's father and gf went out for the night and he had to beg him to go to the store before he left.

He was grounded
 

qwerty2013

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You would also have to throw out RJ's testimony too because she is an "admitted" liar.

IMO

Respectfully, RJ wasn't lying with regard to the case or its testimony, nor did she lie to LE or to a judge. All of us tell little white lies everyday to avoid some unpleasantness, eg. to excuse ourselves from an obligation. It doesn't mean we would lie under oath. In RJ's case, it's to avoid TM's funeral, for her personal reasons. This does not imply in any way that she would commit perjury. GZ, however, lied about bail money, lied on TV that he didn't know SYG, changed his story to LE several times, etc. :twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:
 

FrayedKnot

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Yep and lots of those "children" are criminals, with parents who didn't care enougn to make sure they were at home at night. If my 17 year old wanted something from a store, I would drive them. To walk alone at night, no matter WHO you are, is not wise.

But TM wasn't committing a crime. And it was not late at night. He is a victim, not a criminal on trial.
 

Mahouston69

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IMO, expecting to find DNA at the scene of every crime is a direct result of the CSI effect.

Lack of DNA proves very little, IMO, and I think many seasoned investigators would state the same.

BTW: Despite what many folks may believe, presence of DNA is considered to be circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence.

MOO

It's only expected to not find DNA if you don't know for sure there was no physical contact. ( like in a room)

It is not circumstantial if DNA is present and the dead persons and the defendant had never met. ( or had reason to be in the same room or place of death)

Lack of DNA Is huge here especially under his nails with cuts on the face. Where did that skin, blood go?
 
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