George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

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Kimberlyd125

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I think they both acted out of their own prejudices and learned behaviors. They are both complicit in the incident.

I don't see how the state will ever prove without a reasonable doubt that GZ committed murder and was not acting in self defense.

Especially when you look at the GZ injury photos.

JMO
 

Linda7NJ

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There are certain things in life that are (or should be) just understood.
Respect for a court of law SHOULD be on that list.

I would pass out if my daughter EVER spoke to anyone in that way.

Not me.
 

Lovelymountains

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Well, she's not a professional. She's a very young woman who's been through a horrific event.

I'm so glad you said that. How could this young lady be expected to be any kind of "Professional?" She comes from an entirely different milieu than most of us on this forum. I think she was honest today and admitted lying in the past. She is an unsophisticated young woman who lost her friend to a violent death and she was the last person to talk to him. It must have been extremely traumatic. I certainly felt empathy with her and I think she was credible. At times her attitude was not as courteous as most of us would be, but again, this is her culture. I believed her.
 

Linda7NJ

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Wow! I also feel she was very disrespectful. To be a credible witness answer the questions clearly and concisely without muttering and eye rolling. At the end she implied that she would not be coming the next day -- that she was leaving. She even said some comment to the attorney about not wanting to come back to talk to him. Where does she think she is?

IMO the girl isn't the brightest bulb in the box. .... But she sure has a mind for dates and times! She was simply "keeping it real" it was obvious to me she didn't want to be there, suffered trauma, and was still struggling.
 

ljs713

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This is the most controversial and hardest case I have ever watched. To me both GZ and TM are at fault for this sad and tragic loss. A lawyer on one of the shows on HLN said something that made perfect sense and gave me clarity about the events of that night. Both GZ and TM approached this night with prejudgments of the other person and with cultural differences. GZ saw TM as a suspicious troublemaker and TM saw GZ as a no good whatever, wanting to harass him. Neither one were going to just back off and walk away from each other. GZ was determined to find out what TM was up to and TM was determined to not let GZ get away with what TM perceived as harassment. Because of both of their poor judgements TM wound up dead and to me they are equally at fault. The problem lies in how do you punish someone who is still living against someone who ended up dead. I do not know the answer to that question and probably never will.
 

MeeBee

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I don't see how the state will ever prove without a reasonable doubt that GZ committed murder and was not acting in self defense.

Especially when you look at the GZ injury photos.

JMO

I don't believe it was murder. But what I am saying is George is complicit in the incident just as much as Trayvon is. He followed him and questioned him when he had no evidence that he was doing anything wrong. I also don't believe he was just walking back to his car and Trayvon attacked him out of nowhere. That doesn't seem plausible and it doesn't seem supported by the evidence and by this girl's testimony. I don't think he should be charged with murder. Either he should be aquitted or be charged with manslaughter. I haven't decided yet.
 

kaRN

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lol thanks! I actually fault the prosecution more than I fault her. They didn't really prep her well enough for testifying IMO. I'm just glad I'm not on this jury lol I feel conflicted enough

I did too until I heard one of the legal experts explain why not prepping her might have been part of a strategy. She really did appear to be telling the brutal truth, 48 hours and all. The outbursts to clarify things was really refreshing compared to other trials and witnesses. I kept biting my lip going no, no stop LOL! But she sounded real to me and when the experts get on the stand we're going to see what fake looks like. The jury will get a balanced view at the end. I hope they put them up in a nice hotel for going through this!!
 

JudyBolton

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There are certain things in life that are (or should be) just understood.
Respect for a court of law SHOULD be on that list.

I would pass out if my daughter EVER spoke to anyone in that way.

I am the parent of 2 - college (early 20's) and a high school teacher. So I have been around many, many young people. They pretty much act the way you expect/require them to act. I do not buy the "that's just how teenagers talk these days" excuse. It reminds me of that awful phrase "boys will be boys" which I have always hated. Obviously, from reading here - my standard is in the minority :(
 

iluvmua

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This is the most controversial and hardest case I have ever watched. To me both GZ and TM are at fault for this sad and tragic loss. A lawyer on one of the shows on HLN said something that made perfect sense and gave me clarity about the events of that night. Both GZ and TM approached this night with prejudgments of the other person and with cultural differences. GZ saw TM as a suspicious troublemaker and TM saw GZ as a no good whatever, wanting to harass him. Neither one were going to just back off and walk away from each other. GZ was determined to find out what TM was up to and TM was determined to not let GZ get away with what TM perceived as harassment. Because of both of their poor judgements TM wound up dead and to me they are equally at fault. The problem lies in how do you punish someone who is still living against someone who ended up dead. I do not know the answer to that question and probably never will.

1. Totally agree with this.......

2. How much do you punish someone who was clearly trying to save their own life and did not want to kill anyone?

The answer is you don't.

JMO
 

trudy

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IMO I think she embellished her story. An example: She could hear grass sounds over the phone after Trayvon asked why he was being followed? What does grass sound like?

Trayvon was waiting for the rain to stop under the mailboxes overhang. If it was raining when he left the store 6:23 PM which was a mile away, took a short cut to get there, why did it take him over 30 minutes to get to the mailboxes? Why not just go to his dads since it was not that much farther to go?

IMO she is adding facts to fit with GZ phone call.
 

MeeBee

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This is the most controversial and hardest case I have ever watched. To me both GZ and TM are at fault for this sad and tragic loss. A lawyer on one of the shows on HLN said something that made perfect sense and gave me clarity about the events of that night. Both GZ and TM approached this night with prejudgments of the other person and with cultural differences. GZ saw TM as a suspicious troublemaker and TM saw GZ as a no good whatever, wanting to harass him. Neither one were going to just back off and walk away from each other. GZ was determined to find out what TM was up to and TM was determined to not let GZ get away with what TM perceived as harassment. Because of both of their poor judgements TM wound up dead and to me they are equally at fault. The problem lies in how do you punish someone who is still living against someone who ended up dead. I do not know the answer to that question and probably never will.

You perfectly summed up my exact feelings on this case. Thank you thank you thank you so much. And I do not envy this jury who has decide George's fate. Deciding what his punishment should be, if any, is going to be difficult.
 

TorisMom003

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I don't see how the state will ever prove without a reasonable doubt that GZ committed murder and was not acting in self defense.

Especially when you look at the GZ injury photos.

JMO

But those injury photos are misleading, IMO. Zimmerman did not require any bandages, suture tape, butterfly bandage or sutures the night of the shooting. The bleeding had stopped before he even arrived at the police station. I see no serious injuries that prove Zimmerman's claims of a broken nose or having his head banged on a concrete sidewalk repeatedly.

MOO
 

TorisMom003

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1. Totally agree with this.......

2. How much do you punish someone who was clearly trying to save their own life and did not want to kill anyone?

The answer is you don't.

JMO

As to number two and the word already bolded, it isn't "clear" yet and may never really be IMO.
 

MeeBee

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I am the parent of 2 - college (early 20's) and a high school teacher. So I have been around many, many young people. They pretty much act the way you expect/require them to act. I do not buy the "that's just how teenagers talk these days" excuse. It reminds me of that awful phrase "boys will be boys" which I have always hated. Obviously, from reading here - my standard is in the minority :(

Obviously, you are right and obviously this behavior is learned and passed down to them for various reasons. It's not right but it doesn't change the reality of it.
 

m00c0w

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Sorry but I disagree. I see nothing that can be blamed on "fog" (and I heard more than enough of THAT word in another trial). What I see is a man that shot and killed an unarmed young man and is trying to minimize his actions that look very bad for him.

If you disagree with my opinion that is fine and I encourage you to take them piece by piece yourself (the non emergency call and the walk through) and show us how they are alike. I would be interested in specific examples like I gave instead of a broad stroke as to they seem the same. Thank you in advance.
With all due respect, I'd ask specifically where you think they differ. All I got from your post was a side-by-side of both of them and you said essentially, "Look, they're different."

I'm seriously not trying to be snarky, but I saw no real specifics.
 

iluvmua

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Jodi wasn't either and yet Travis is dead and so is Trayvon.

Please find me a link/document that states George is being charged with stalking.

There is NO evidence of stalking and there never has been.

JMO
 

Kimberlyd125

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But those injury photos are misleading, IMO. Zimmerman did not require any bandages, suture tape, butterfly bandage or sutures the night of the shooting. The bleeding had stopped before he even arrived at the police station. I see no serious injuries that proof Zimmerman's claims of a broken nose or having his head banged on a concrete sidewalk repeatedly.

MOO

How is a digital, clear photo misleading?
He refused treatment but was cleaned up.
He was obviously hit or punched.
He had obvious wounds to the back of the head.
The severity doesn't really matter. If he thought his life was in danger he had the right to defend himself.



It is OBVIOUS he was injured.

How will the state prove it wasn't self defense?
 

Only4Justice

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I just got home and turned on the TV.

I have to stay away from this case. JA drained me and make me sick lol.

I have had very strong feelings for Trayvon since this happened. I guess you could say I am biased. I have a son Trayvon's age. I do not believe Trayvon should have died :(

I'm staying away from this trial. I am praying I can.
 
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