George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

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MeeBee

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Another thing that bothers me about her testimony is that she stated that she did not know George Zimmerman was not arrested until after she spoke to his father Mid-March. I find that hard to believe with all the media coverage on this case. Even if she did not watch the news, I would think that she would hear about the controversy from his\her friends.

If I was on the jury and had to weigh the evidence as to someone's guilt, I would not find this witness credible. Not just based on her demeanor, but also on how she embellished her testimony. How do you hear grass over the phone?

I don't know why people are finding it so hard to believe that someone can hear someone walking or shuffling through grass. Maybe she heard a noise and attributed it to grass. But it doesn't seem that beyond the realm to me. You can hear all sorts of goings on when you are talking on a cell phone to someone.
 

m00c0w

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Actually I would say what really makes it a lie is the fact that the EMTs did not mention anything about Zimmerman needing stitches to the back of his head nor that he DID have a broken nose in their report. The report has been released for over a year now and can be found in our document thread for this case.
I'm not sure that offhand remarks, such as "Yeah, these look like you need stitches and your nose is probably broken" would be on that record.
 

TorisMom003

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If they stopped bleeding on their own, why were there blood trails all around his head in the pictures at the police station, after (and even you acknowledge) the EMTs cleaned him up?

I knew this question was coming. If one looks at the photos before Zimmerman goes to the police station and the photos after Zimmerman is at the police station one will see that the blood trails match perfectly. This to me means that even though EMTs cleaned his face completely of blood they did not completely clean his head and the blood seen at the police station is the same blood that was on his head before EMTs cleaned him up and checked him out.
 

kaRN

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Concerning the injuries to Zimmerman, and again this points to a lie, he claims during the walk through that his doctor told him his nose was broken and that he needed one or two stitches to the back of his head YET during the interview in which the "voice stress test" was done he claims the EMT told him the night before his nose was broken and that he needed one or two stitches to the back of his head.

Proof of this in the videos I posted yesterday.

The medical report however stated his nose was probably broken and he didn't need stitches. Thank goodness his boss sent him to actually see someone. Did the medics even bandage his cuts? Also and this is just a technicality but medics aren't allowed to diagnose and probably wouldn't have for liability reasons so that's a lie too.
 

miimaa

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Not that I know of Mel. She explained why she knew she'd be called and was scared because on 48 hrs LE always look at the phones of victims and contacted the last person they'd spoken to.

She did not say she was scared at that point. She said she did not call police because she expected them to call her as that is how it happens on the tv show.
 

gxm

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But those injury photos are misleading, IMO. Zimmerman did not require any bandages, suture tape, butterfly bandage or sutures the night of the shooting. The bleeding had stopped before he even arrived at the police station. I see no serious injuries that prove Zimmerman's claims of a broken nose or having his head banged on a concrete sidewalk repeatedly.

MOO

Those injury photos were taken by the crime scene photographer after he was cleaned up. If anything, they downplay GZ's injuries.

Following the evidence considered to date, IMO, it aligns more with GZ's story. (And all we've heard is the state's case so far!) Clearly GZ was hit in the nose (photo evidence). It has been speculated by those who support the state's "vigilante" scenario that GZ had his gun drawn and approached TM. But who would punch a man holding a gun to them in the face? That makes no sense IMO.
 

Nana46

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I am older than dirt and I would be very upset if my child disrespected anyone ever especially in court. But, he has been taught to be respectful. How do we know what this girl has been taught in her life. I live in the deep south. I don't live in a big city like Miami and have no idea what her lifestyle is like. Perhaps she has never been taught how to act in court and around authority. If she has not had a role model especially through this how can anyone expect her to suddenly know how to act??????

Another thing almost off subject....years ago my husband was a volunteer fireman. There was a huge fire to a business here and many of the fireman were called to a trial in another large city to give their accounts of what they saw and did. There was a high powered attorney that kept asking my hubby what he did on Engine 7. He corrected the attorney and told him he was never on Engine 7 he was on Engine 9. This went on for quite some time with the attorney constantly referring to him being on Engine 7....he said he finally told the attorney " I keep telling you I was never on Engine 7" !!!! He told me this when he got home and I was mortified as I would never have confronted anyone in my life...however, he was raised differently and has NO qualms about saying what he feels.....all this just to say we don't know this girl's home life, her past or anything. Let's just kind of see how this plays out....her memory on lots of things was amazing!!!!!!! IMO.
 

Karmady

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How is a digital, clear photo misleading?
He refused treatment but was cleaned up.
He was obviously hit or punched.
He had obvious wounds to the back of the head.
The severity doesn't really matter. If he thought his life was in danger he had the right to defend himself.



It is OBVIOUS he was injured.

How will the state prove it wasn't self defense?

He had huge bumps on his head, too. I didn't realize how bad they were until I saw the photos up in court yesterday
 

JudyBolton

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I don't see how the severity of his injuries is that important. The only thing that does is show that he was being attacked. How injured does a person have to be (I'm asking in legal terms) to be in fear of their lives? I've heard of many cases where someone was threatened and shot and killed the aggressor and didn't have a scratch. They were not charged with murder.
 

Schuby

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Wow, you guys are moving fast! My thoughts on what I saw of Rachel's testimony today is that I truly don't know what to do with it. She seemed ver authentic but also irritated and very uncomfortable on the stand. I honestly don't know what to make of her.
 

m00c0w

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I knew this question was coming. If one looks at the photos before Zimmerman goes to the police station and the photos after Zimmerman is at the police station one will see that the blood trails match perfectly. This to me means that even though EMTs cleaned his face completely of blood they did not completely clean his head and the blood seen at the police station is the same blood that was on his head before EMTs cleaned him up and checked him out.
In any case, I have had injuries that required stitches that stopped bleeding on their own. That doesn't necessarily indicate the severity of the injury.
 

polleypockets

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This is the most controversial and hardest case I have ever watched. To me both GZ and TM are at fault for this sad and tragic loss. A lawyer on one of the shows on HLN said something that made perfect sense and gave me clarity about the events of that night. Both GZ and TM approached this night with prejudgments of the other person and with cultural differences. GZ saw TM as a suspicious troublemaker and TM saw GZ as a no good whatever, wanting to harass him. Neither one were going to just back off and walk away from each other. GZ was determined to find out what TM was up to and TM was determined to not let GZ get away with what TM perceived as harassment. Because of both of their poor judgements TM wound up dead and to me they are equally at fault. The problem lies in how do you punish someone who is still living against someone who ended up dead. I do not know the answer to that question and probably never will.

ok i truly don't understand how ppl can say this is TM's fault - all he did was walk to the 711 for candy and walk home and it was GZ that followed him, and even by listening to GZ call - GZ said he was running away - in his mind away, in truth running to his house and GZ took out after him - i just don't know how that is a seventeen year old boys fault???

and if you listen to all this witnesses statements from day 1 she never waivered was that TM thought he lost him, the TM says why are you following me, GZ says what are you doing here, and TM say get off of me get off of me - but even if you do not believe her - i still don't know how TM running away helped cause this
 

Linda7NJ

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I am the parent of 2 - college (early 20's) and a high school teacher. So I have been around many, many young people. They pretty much act the way you expect/require them to act. I do not buy the "that's just how teenagers talk these days" excuse. It reminds me of that awful phrase "boys will be boys" which I have always hated. Obviously, from reading here - my standard is in the minority :(

Guess it depends where you teach.

I've been to schools where a few of the English teachers talk just like this witness.

It has nothing to do with standards and everything to do with reality.
 

gxm

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After sharing many romantic nights with my hubby, rolling in the grass after dark? I can tell you that the sound of grass is REAL, and BEAUTIFUL! :blushing:

But you were rolling in the grass together. Not miles apart, over a cell phone. The truth is that when just one sense is in play, its accuracy diminishes. IMO, there is no way the witness can accurately identify the "sound of grass" over a cell phone. And, IMO, the state trying to pass this off as evidence shows how little evidence they have to support the charges they have brought against GZ.
 

Moonie

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1. Totally agree with this.......

2. How much do you punish someone who was clearly trying to save their own life and did not want to kill anyone?

The answer is you don't.

JMO


Nothing is clear in this case. Not until all of the evidence is in. It's just as plausible to think that those injuries came from Trayvon trying to get away from George who was trying to hold him there for the police. We don't know what started the fight and why the injuries came about. We may never really know.
 

MeeBee

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I don't know if my other post came through and I know this is off topic... I hope Rachel/DeeDee gets her thyroid checked. She looks like she has goiter and it would explain a lot re: her recent physical changes. Thanks.

You're right it did look like a goiter.
 

Karmady

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I don't see how the severity of his injuries is that important. The only thing that does is show that he was being attacked. How injured does a person have to be (I'm asking in legal terms) to be in fear of their lives? I've heard of many cases where someone was threatened and shot and killed the aggressor and didn't have a scratch. They were not charged with murder.

The statute doesn't technically require any injury. Just a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. In a case where there is no weapon brandished, I would imagine that some injury is required. But, ultimately, it's a question of for the jury whether the defendant's fear was reasonable. I doubt very much that the judge would take that decision out of their hands under any circumstances other than MAYBE no injury, no verbal threat and no obvious weapon. jmo
 

TorisMom003

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But you were rolling in the grass together. Not miles apart, over a cell phone. The truth is that when just one sense is in play, its accuracy diminishes. IMO, there is no way the witness can accurately identify the "sound of grass" over a cell phone. And, IMO, the state trying to pass this off as evidence shows how little evidence they have to support the charges they have brought against GZ.

The cell phone had been dropped and was on the grass at the time that the witness says she heard the grass noise.
 
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