George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

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AJ Noiter

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I don't know how GZ got a straight scratch on his nose by being punched but assume more will come out at a trial. Hopefully his statements to LE will be released long before that.

I believe all of us would be relieved and have high praise for any 17 year old kid managing to get away (by fighting) from a stranger whom the kid had no doubt was following him/her and didn't know why. To my knowledge GZ did not identify himself. Trayvon stood his ground.

JMO

Someone else pointed out, and I agree, they don't look like scratches. They look like broken blood vessels, with a little bit of blood pooling on the right. Like what you see here:

veins-nose-4.jpg


I'm not a medical expert - far from it - but I can certainly see how those "scratches" aren't scratches at all.
 

Dr.Fessel

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As opposed to being able to defend himself and not, and probably NOT being able to reach his weapon? If you think about it I actually GAVE the Martin supporters a bit because with what I said it removes Mr. Martin from seeing or going for the weapon. Again, the picture was in comparison to another that someone else was posting. You even quoted me saying "I don't think this is exactly how it happened, but it's probably closer than the other." It's not likely that the other photo is closer to what happened simply because, as you can see in the other photo, Mr. Zimmerman's hands are FREE to defend himself. We know he didn't have any reported bruising on his arms, and we know that Mr. Martin didn't have any bruises other than one on his knuckle.


There was no bruise on Martins knuckle, there was an abrasion below it that measured 1/4 inch by 1/8 inch.
 

Dr.Fessel

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Someone else pointed out, and I agree, they don't look like scratches. They look like broken blood vessels, with a little bit of blood pooling on the right. Like what you see here:

veins-nose-4.jpg


I'm not a medical expert - far from it - but I can certainly see how those "scratches" aren't scratches at all.


I look at those two pictures and I say nope, not scratches. No mistaking them for what they are.
 

diesel

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Someone else pointed out, and I agree, they don't look like scratches. They look like broken blood vessels, with a little bit of blood pooling on the right. Like what you see here:

I'm not a medical expert - far from it - but I can certainly see how those "scratches" aren't scratches at all.

Snipped for space.

Thanks. I was referring to the straight scratch across the bridge of his nose, though. Probably should have referred to it as a straight cut really.
 

magnolia

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I look at those two pictures and I say nope, not scratches. No mistaking them for what they are.

Lets compare this photo of Zimmerman to the one AJ posted. No doubt, there are broken blood vessels on the side of his nose. IMO

Contusion: Another name for a bruise. What is a bruise ? A bruise, or contusion, is caused when blood vessels are damaged or broken as the result of a blow to the skin
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=2838
slide_227184_990883_freeGZInjury.jpg
 

claudicici

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For those of you that had their nose broken: how about how did you feel? I felt horrible,I wanted pain medication and I have a pretty high tolerance for pain,blood kept running down my throat and I felt I couldn't breath.I wanted ice and medication.
I don't believe for a second GZ would have turned down going to the hospital repeatedly if he had a broken nose and if he said was true wouldn't he want to make sure he doesn't have a brain injury???
 

rotterdam

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I don't know how GZ got a straight scratch on his nose by being punched but assume more will come out at a trial. Hopefully his statements to LE will be released long before that.

I believe all of us would be relieved and have high praise for any 17 year old kid managing to get away (by fighting) from a stranger whom the kid had no doubt was following him/her and didn't know why. To my knowledge GZ did not identify himself. Trayvon stood his ground.

JMO
I do not understand how he got that straight scratch either. Some time ago I bopped myself on the nose and had a similar scratch. I tried to get something loose and it suddenly did, hitting myself on the nose. I did develop two black eyes the next day. No broken nose though AFAIK. Did not go to a Doc(no insurance). Could be why GZ did not see a nose , throat and ear specialist either. Because of the expense since he stopped working the day after the incident and skipped town.
I just wonder if GZ and Trayvon had a tug of war over the gun and it ended up bopping GZ on the nose.
 

Montjoy

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We know he didn't have any reported bruising on his arms, and we know that Mr. Martin didn't have any bruises other than one on his knuckle.

FWIW, and I think this is something that has been lost in the shuffle, 'assault' doesn't imply any physical contact (that is 'battery'). TM could have been compelled and legally permitted to defend himself, even vigorously, without having been hit once.
 

AJ Noiter

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FWIW, and I think this is something that has been lost in the shuffle, 'assault' doesn't imply any physical contact (that is 'battery'). TM could have been compelled and legally permitted to defend himself, even vigorously, without having been hit once.

I believe the law uses the term "forcible felony" in the self defense texts. What is a "forcible felony" ?

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.

Ok, so what is an "aggravated assault" in Florida?

784.021 Aggravated assault.—
(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.

I don't believe there is sufficient proof of either. The fact is, you can't just go up to someone and punch them in the nose because they're following you.
 

rotterdam

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FWIW, and I think this is something that has been lost in the shuffle, 'assault' doesn't imply any physical contact (that is 'battery'). TM could have been compelled and legally permitted to defend himself, even vigorously, without having been hit once.

Especially if GZ was pulling his gun prior to both hitting the ground. Kind of a similar situation as in the Dooley/ James SYG case.
 

Karmady

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For those of you that had their nose broken: how about how did you feel? I felt horrible,I wanted pain medication and I have a pretty high tolerance for pain,blood kept running down my throat and I felt I couldn't breath.I wanted ice and medication.
I don't believe for a second GZ would have turned down going to the hospital repeatedly if he had a broken nose and if he said was true wouldn't he want to make sure he doesn't have a brain injury???

I do not recall ever going to the hospital or even the dr. for any of them. The only time I may have was when I broke it during a rec league softball game. It was so long ago I don't remember if I went to the ER or not. But I know that, if I did, it was only because of the league and my mother, not because I wanted to go. The breaks have bled (some more than others), were very sensitive and caused significant headaches and local pain. I have iced them and taken over the counter pain meds, but never any kind of rx. But, admittedly, I don't go to the dr. unless it's absolutely necessary. It's always been my understanding that there is nothing they can do, anyway. At least if there's no significant dislocation of the bone. And the procedure to correct that is usually worse than the break itself, imo. So, no thanks!!
 

Montjoy

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I don't believe there is sufficient proof of either. The fact is, you can't just go up to someone and punch someone in the nose because they're following you.

And I didn't suggest that they could -- but if someone attempts to strike you, you can defend yourself. You don't need to wait to be hit to strike back.

(Aggravated stalking is also at issue here, but that goes beyond the scope of my previous post.)
 

AJ Noiter

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And I didn't suggest that they could -- but if someone attempts to strike you, you can defend yourself. You don't need to wait to be hit to strike back.

(Aggravated stalking is also at issue here, but that goes beyond the scope of my previous post.)

I have yet to see any shred of evidence that Mr. Zimmerman tried to use any force at all, other than of course, the shooting.
 

ariesgodofwar

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Snipped for space.

Thanks. I was referring to the straight scratch across the bridge of his nose, though. Probably should have referred to it as a straight cut really.

Ever see a boxing match? There is the corner man and the "cut" man. Boxers receive similar cuts all of the time. It is caused by the skin splitting and does not require a scratch or anything else. The injuries are very similar to what you see in the ring.

I love the Google Images Theory. So what is it now? "Google Images don't lie, and if the pic of the broken nose don't match, you must crucify!"

I understand that a lot of folks are very emotional about this case, but some of the speculation that has been made, in spite of the evidence, impugns the integrity of both LE and Medical professionals, without any supporting evidence whatsoever. The Doctor said he had a closed fracture, 2 black eyes, 2 contusions, 2 lacerations, and an injured back. I think unless someone has evidence to the contrary, that this must be accepted as fact. All this "In my opinion, aliens beat George up so he could get away with killing Trayvon" has to stop. It is maddening.

I would like to remind everyone that while it is Defenses duty to raise reasonable doubt with such speculation, the duty of the Prosecution is that they must prove the case beyond all reasonable doubt. They must use evidence, not speculation. Just saying, many are arguing George Zimmerman's guilt as if speculation was resolved in favor of the prosecution. That is not how our adversarial system works. You cannot posit theories without the evidence completely supporting it. If the evidence does not support your assertion 100%, it will fail in a court of law, as that is exactly what reasonable doubt is.
 

rotterdam

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I do not recall ever going to the hospital or even the dr. for any of them. The only time I may have was when I broke it during a rec league softball game. It was so long ago I don't remember if I went to the ER or not. But I know that, if I did, it was only because of the league and my mother, not because I wanted to go. The breaks have bled (some more than others), were very sensitive and caused significant headaches and local pain. I have iced them and taken over the counter pain meds, but never any kind of rx. But, admittedly, I don't go to the dr. unless it's absolutely necessary. It's always been my understanding that there is nothing they can do, anyway. At least if there's no significant dislocation of the bone. And the procedure to correct that is usually worse than the break itself, imo. So, no thanks!!

Man, that is something we can finally agree on. I am paranoid in going to ER/hospital and doctors too. Last time I went, was when I was due with my son 22years ago.
Some are not any better than crooked car mechanics and create imaginary health problems resulting in referrals, whether needed or not, to specialists of some kind . You are even in more danger if you have a Cadillac insurance policy. In the case of GZ who had relatively minor injuries, they wanted him to see another specialist and a psychiatrist too if I recall. Most folks would have turned that down IMO because of the cost involved. I know I would have. So I do not hold it against him for refusing to see other recommended health professionals. Or even ER. Those places can take you to the cleaners in short order.
And tks for shedding more light on your multiple broken noses. I was really wondering how the heck you got several of them over your life time. They are not exactly common occurrences unless you are into sports..
 

Reader

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This article was posted in the media thread by Izzy Blanche and could apply to any thread since the evidence is not specified, and the evidence/doc threads are now closed.

Anywho, it is interesting that MOM is the one who is saying that criticism of the prosecutor is not justified:

O'Mara: Corey has released only about half of her Zimmerman evidence

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-witness-names

George Zimmerman's lawyer on Monday estimated that prosecutors only have released about half the evidence they've gathered against his client and warned people not to jump to conclusions.

Criminal-defense lawyers who've reviewed the evidence have been critical of Corey, accusing her of filing a second-degree murder charge without enough evidence to support it.

But O'Mara on Monday wrote that the criticism would be premature.


He lists examples of types of evidence still to come, including medical records.
 

Dr.Fessel

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All straight scratches not broken branching blood vessels like people get on their nose from drinking or varicose veins. imo

georgescr.jpg
 

jjenny

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You can get an injury that looks like a cut through blunt force trauma. The skin breaks on impact.
 

Karmady

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Man, that is something we can finally agree on. I am paranoid in going to ER/hospital and doctors too. Last time I went, was when I was due with my son 22years ago.
Some are not any better than crooked car mechanics and create imaginary health problems resulting in referrals, whether needed or not, to specialists of some kind . You are even in more danger if you have a Cadillac insurance policy. In the case of GZ who had relatively minor injuries, they wanted him to see another specialist and a psychiatrist too if I recall. Most folks would have turned that down IMO because of the cost involved. I know I would have. So I do not hold it against him for refusing to see other recommended health professionals. Or even ER. Those places can take you to the cleaners in short order.
And tks for shedding more light on your multiple broken noses. I was really wondering how the heck you got several of them over your life time. They are not exactly common occurrences unless you are into sports..

It seems like once you break it once, it breaks much easier after that. They were (1) in a car accident on the dashboard, (2) someone coming up out of the water in the ocean hit me with the back of their head -- you know how girls throw their head and hair back?, (3) hit point blank in the face with a raquet ball right off the raquet, (4) by a softball thrown to get me out at first base (5) a snowball to the face, and there may have been one more, but I can't remember how that happened. I tend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time lol

I feel exactly the same way about dr/hosp visits.
 
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