Gerald R. McMenamin on Donald Foster pg 84-88

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by voynich, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    link
    http://books.google.com/books?id=oF...sZHXCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

    you can find Forensic linguistics By Gerald R. McMenamin, Dongdoo Choi

    on google books,

    page 85-88

    since it's pdf I can't cut and paste but quotes include

    "[Foster] presenting no clear methodology" p87

    "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing....Donald Foster's academic preparation is literature " p85

    he also critiques psycho-linguistics p84


    "this kind of psycholinguistics is not forensic linguistics"

    Dave, you're coming with me. I'll not leave you behind. I got to save you.

    "you already have, voynich" "you were right about me. tell your sister, you were right"
     
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  3. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Voynich, you're consistent, I'll give you that. You're not like a lot of the people who claim that ALL linguistic analysis is jabberwocky, then turn right around and use the words of the jabberwockey-mongers themselves to attack another one.

    That said, I'll remind you yet again that one had access to the actual case materials and the other did NOT.
     
  4. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Well, I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father.

    You can make of McM.. what you like but he outlines his methodology as involving statistical analysis (which can be independently done) and he feels his sample size of PR's known writing is large enough, and the RN long enough, to draw the conclusion, in the language of statistics p-value >0.001

    to rule her out as author.
     
  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Fortunately, my father saw the true power.

    I get all of that (I think). But what I'm saying is that there is a lot more that is denied to him as an outsider.

    A lot of myths repeated in those pages, BTW.
     
  6. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    The biggest issue with Foster is that:

    a) he himself said that being wrong just once would make any future finding suspect and he was then found to be apparently wrong about a couple of his high-profile findings:

    b) he is always up against the insurmountable problem that while he may have found the person whose writing best matches the sample, he may not have come across the person whose writing is even closer to the sample. This was exactly what happened with the elegy that he attributed to Shakespeare. It *was* close to Shakespeare but it was even closer to John Ford whom he never studied. Henceforth, his critics will always be able to point out that someone else's writings etc may be closer to the RN and that he just hasn't come across them yet.

    IOW, there are enough academics in that field who will argue that every one of his findings is suspect that his otherwise incredibly useful work in the Ramsey case is wasted. A very sad waste IMHO.
     
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Well said. It might not have been so bad if the DA had actually known how to use him or had stood by him. But he came back with the one answer the DA's office did not want. That sealed his fate, provided they ever intended to us him at all.
     
  8. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    If his conclusion is valid, but RDI is still true, I wonder if the reason is

    1- Burke wrote it,
    2- PR + JR wrote it together, confounding statistical analysis
    3- another R wrote it.
     
  9. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    And it's a very BIG "if." But regardless, I've often wondered about #2.
     
  10. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Re nr.1

    I don't think so but it would say a lot re his relationship with his daddy :D "Don't grow a brain John" ?
     
  11. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    The worst of it is, people like Foster are incredibly valuable to LE: you'd have expected Hunter et al to have done all they could to preserve his credibility for future investigations. People with his ability aren't ten a penny..
     
  12. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    LOL, Madeleine :)
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Instead, he did the exact opposite.
     
  14. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    I definitely wonder about #2,considering Patsy revealed in DOI how she and JR came up w the liturgy of the day (the one that contained the words 'and hence').She said that she and John each wrote a version,then merged the two into one final version.perhaps the reason so many pages were missing from her writing tablet?
     
  15. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    no love for Gerald R. McMenamin?
     
  16. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    I'd like to see samples of Burke's writing, both written and typed.
     
  17. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I think #2. I don't see BR involvement in the note at all. Or the staging, for that matter.

    PR physically wrote the note, but the content was contrived by she and JR together. JMO.
     
  18. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    To be honest, I know very little about the subject and what I do know is refracted through the light of my Shakespearean linguist sister's cynicism about the academic egos operating in the field. However, I do think that Foster is a tragically overlooked victim of this case...
     
  19. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Do you base your conclusions on BR's handwriting and linguistic samples?
     
  20. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    In the link I provided, Gerald himself doesn't put much credence in psychological profiles of the RN nor in literary analysis type linkage.
     
  21. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    BR was only 10,not quite 11,when JB was killed.I don't see him as being capable of writing a note with such content at that age.
     

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