Gerard Baden Clay's murder appeal

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Feb 27, 2015.

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  1. RR0004

    RR0004 New Member

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    That's just CRAZY!!
     


  2. Fuskier

    Fuskier Well-Known Member

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    FYI
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/th...pper-hand-in-the-legal-system-20151214-gln2k2

    Alister Henskens, SC, barrister and State Member for Ku-ring-gai, NSW.

    "The result of the Baden-Clay decision is to weigh the law in favour of the domestic violence killer and not his victim. The State of Queensland should appeal the decision to the High Court. If the High Court says the decision is correct or there is no appeal, then the NSW Parliament should, by statute, ensure that this result is never allowed to be followed in the Courts of our State. In NSW we want a judiciary that has laws which allow our Courts to arrive at decisions that reflect community values against domestic violence".

    Thank you Alistair Henskens for articulating your opinions in msm. We would like a Judiciary with laws which allow Courts to arrive at decisions that reflect community values against domestic violence in each state of Australia.
    My opinion only.
     
  3. Fuskier

    Fuskier Well-Known Member

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    FYI
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the...0151214-gln2k2

    Alister Henskens, SC, barrister and State Member for Ku-ring-gai, NSW.

    "The Appeal Court could and should have favoured an argument that having denied that he killed his wife, the jury in rejecting that explanation could rely upon his false evidence to conclude that he intended to kill his wife. If a killer wants to claim manslaughter for accidental death, adverse inferences should be drawn if the murderer does not give evidence of the fact and circumstances of any accident at the trial if they choose to give evidence. Murderers should not be able to first raise a technical defence of that kind at the time of an appeal through their lawyers and game the legal system by running a case which is inconsistent with the case at the first trial. The suggestion made by his lawyers on appeal that he may have accidently killed his wife was never able to be tested at the trial through cross examination".

    This paragraph articulated my thoughts on the matter as well.
     
  4. Couldbe

    Couldbe Well-Known Member

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    …. And could they have to consider also, that if the High Court found that there would be no new precedent with implications for other cases, but that there was an unsubstantiated change for Manslaughter ……….. that they might have to ‘give the sack’ to the Judges from continuing to serve in the Appeals Court! Just saying
     
  5. Fluffykins

    Fluffykins Well-Known Member

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  6. Couldbe

    Couldbe Well-Known Member

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    Alioop, thank you for your explanation. But I am still hazy on it.

    I am worried that there may be room for Gerard to Appeal the charge of Manslaughter (not only the sentencing).

    If the advice to Cameron Dick comes back saying ‘do not appeal’, then this is sending the message to the Defence that they could probably have a good chance of appealing the Manslaughter verdict! Because he has never admitted to anything.

    Am I on the wrong track?
     
  7. Fuskier

    Fuskier Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Future possibility for 'Gaming the system' (as in the above post) is a bit of a concern. My opinion only.
     
  8. Couldbe

    Couldbe Well-Known Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couldbe View Post
    Alioop, thank you for your explanation. But I am still hazy on it.

    I am worried that there may be room for Gerard to Appeal the charge of Manslaughter (not only the sentencing).

    If the advice to Cameron Dick comes back saying ‘do not appeal’, then this is sending the message to the Defence that they could probably have a good chance of appealing the Manslaughter verdict! Because he has never admitted to anything.

    Am I on the wrong track?
    JMO
    He succeeded with his first preposterous Appeal.
    If it is viewed as incremental challenging, then his next could be along the lines of:-

    ‘Fearful that he would not be believed, he decided to tell the Police everything he knew, concentrate on caring for his children and leave it entirely to the Police to find Allison …. He believed that his wife was still alive and would be found.’
     
  9. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    I smell a foul odour.


    Baden-Clay judge praises politicians
    DECEMBER 16, 201511:18AM

    Queensland's chief justice has praised the government and opposition for putting the court's independence ahead of "populist considerations".

    Chief Justice Catherine Holmes, who is one of the judges who granted Gerard Baden-Clay's appeal, made the statement at a Christmas ceremony for the legal profession in Brisbane on Wednesday.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...s/news-story/a883a754db0386d576e082b90196ffe4
     
  10. Mumma Bear

    Mumma Bear New Member

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    Who's going on Friday? *puts hand up*
     
  11. ford71

    ford71 Member

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    I'm not sure why but this little piece of the story really makes me rage. She seemed like such a nice woman and for this bastard to demean her like this angers me.
    Its like I can feel her hurt. She didn't deserve any of this.

    This latest turn of events is shocking and I am glad to see such a high level of outrage, and I hope it does little to change his outcome.

    Someone posted just before about his recent move to the "quieter section" of jail. More anger.

    2 months of trial, a tense job for a jury of 12 with a highly rated judge, and all that comes of it is a dismissal of their decision. Sends bad messages to communities.

    And what about all the police and investigators that worked to convict the killer?
    3 judges slapping everyone in the face.

    Madness. We are well and truly down the path of throwing common sense out the window while looking for loopholes and technicalities to win the battle. Even if the prize is allowing a killer to escape justice and a victim to lose it. What a mess.
     
  12. McCoy

    McCoy New Member

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    I'll be there should be a huge turn out
     
  13. Couldbe

    Couldbe Well-Known Member

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    The Judges have had their own issues with the previous Political appointment of the Chief Justice, so her expression of appreciation by the latest Chief Justice Catherine Holmes would, I think, have been expected at their function.

    The Baden Clay Appeal must be causing considerable discussion amongst the legal profession at the moment; especially in view of the public rally on Friday to support an Appeal to the High Court.
    Extract from: http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...s/news-story/a883a754db0386d576e082b90196ffe4
    “Also speaking at the Christmas ceremony, Bar Association of Queensland president Christopher Hughes reiterated his defence of the Court of Appeal in the face of "unfair criticism".
    Mr Hughes said that while barristers and others can't be expected to be immune from public commentary, it was important that the commentary be "both reasoned and reasonable".

    I think much of the ‘public commentary’ here is just that.
    Many of the posters knew Baden Clay before Allison ‘went missing’ and can’t help but allow it to influence their judgment.
    Others of us did not although we sat through every single day of the trial, and we keep on searching to understand how the Law has functioned in this case; also to understand how it could happen that we have the differences between this very experienced Senior Trial Judge and the Appeal Judges, and where this case will go next, and why.
    We were told that Judge Byrne did not err in presiding over the case!

    I know we need to be able to trust the wheels of the judicial process will turn to serve us well but in this case, we are struggling to accept that there is still not some wrong that needs to be put right.

    The people are talking and have a perfectly reasonable and rational message to be heard
     
  14. Fluffykins

    Fluffykins Well-Known Member

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    As far as i know, there's nothing happening here in Melbourne - I'd go if there was.

    Thanks to all of you who do go; hope you get decent weather for it.
     
  15. Fluffykins

    Fluffykins Well-Known Member

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    Hey, wow!!!<modsnip>has just hit 100,000 signatures. :)

    That's a lot of people standing up and saying they're not happy with the outcome. They want better for Allison, they want better for her family and friends. They want better for all victims of coward scum like GBC.
     
  16. Fluffykins

    Fluffykins Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully pruned by me to just this point because I hope, among all the upset I'm feeling about this disgraceful appeal court decision, that I can put together a rational argument here.

    It's this: I think what we are having difficulty with is that it seems the appeal court judges have fixated on the letter of the law, without regard to the spirit of the law or to the community standards behind the law.

    They have stretched their interpretation of Allison's death to envisage an alternate possibility to the finding of murder which was made by a properly instructed jury; an alternate possibility where her death might have been the result of an accidental push or shove.

    They have stretched their interpretation of the scratches on his face to envisage a possibility where the woman, who subsequently lost her life, inflicted those scratches in an unreasonable attack upon her killer, rather than inflicting them while desperately fighting for her life.

    They have stretched their interpretation of his reaction to having possibly caused his wife to lose consciousness, to envisage it being somehow within the realm of normal behaviour that he would assume he had caused her death, rather than hoping, and acting in the hope, that he had only caused her to lose consciousness.

    They have stretched their interpretation of his reaction to the injury he inflicted upon his wife to envisage that even though he didn't necessarily intend to harm her, and even though she may have only been unconscious, still no evidence of intent to murder can be deduced from his subsequent actions in dragging her dead or unconscious body outside and loading it into a car which he drove to a concealed location where he dumped it, even though he at all times had the option to call an ambulance, like any person who had unintentionally inflicted an injury, innocent of any murderous intent, would have done.

    They have stretched their interpretation of his implied intent to murder Allison - when he promised his lover that he would be free of his marriage on a certain date - to envisage that statement as merely idle talk, even though that promise was carried out when he said it would be.

    Time after time after time, in the consideration of every one of these points, they have allowed for the most far-fetched, the most unlikely interpretation of those points. In doing so, they have utterly failed to consider that the evidence of a circumstantial case should be allowed to build a scenario; a scenario that any reasonable person could deduce from considering all the evidence put together.

    I&#8217;m sorry I can&#8217;t go on and make more points I&#8217;d like to make, but it&#8217;s late and I&#8217;m tired. And angry; so very angry.
     
  17. Fuskier

    Fuskier Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Fluffykins for the above post which shows us how the Appeal Judges may have stretched the interpretations to downgrade the verdict of a properly instructed Jury. Well said IMO. When he told her she smelled and laughed at her undies that is evidence of his feelings of 'revulsion' IMO. It was abusive. Of course he's minimized it as 'just said in jest'. However, Allison wrote it in her diary because she was offended by it.
     
  18. Couldbe

    Couldbe Well-Known Member

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    Allison paid the ultimate price in her trust in this husband and in their marriage.

    He did not give her the chance to &#8216;walk away&#8217;.

    He stated &#8216;she went for a walk&#8217; and he went out searching for her.

    &#8230;&#8230;.. and the most recent &#8216;judgment&#8217; has believed him; (certainly accepted another hypothesis as plausible &#8230;&#8230; not that any evidence has been proven of this either)

    &#8230;&#8230;.. but we do not have trust in the latest judgment &#8230; due to unexplained evidence of how it can be correct (not just plausible)..

    Thank you Fluffykins for your so well articulated post.
     
  19. Walk A Mile

    Walk A Mile Active Member

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    The petition expressing outrage about GBC 's conviction being downgraded to manslaughter has attracted a lot of signatures, but there's another petition that I believe deserves more attention. It calls for Queensland to increase the penalty for interfering with a corpse, and to stop the current practice of ordering the time to be served concurrently with other penalties. This is what I would like to see changed, to recognise that the crime of concealing a body is damaging to the family, damaging to the community, consumes precious police and emergency services and advantages the perp, allowing them to destroy evidence of their crime. Why should this cruel and callous act attract a maximum sentence of two years, usually served concurrently? The maximum sentence should be sufficient to deter or punish those who disrespect both living and dead by hiding the body.

    I urge you to read the petition and consider signing it, and to share it if you agree with it.

    <modsnip>

    (I am not connected to the originator of the petition; I became aware of it through social media).
     
  20. Aunty

    Aunty New Member

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    I can't read all posts ATM.
    I want desperately to go to the rally tomorrow. What is the ETA and place?
    And hi everyone. Miss you guys.
    I need and want to keep fighting for justice for Allison and also a hidden forgotten face in this murder investigation. A fallen ,comrade of ours, our wonderful brave and servant , police officer , Shane Dall'Osto , couldn't serve any longer, and took his own life, last year, just before the Trial. He worked on this case with all his might, to shine a light on this despicable crime. He was the leading police officer at her search, and he was there for his men and also for the Dickies and the community. He crawled on all 4's looking for her phone and He never left the Brookfield command , just to sleep. He cared and loved Allison and her family , like he loved his own family. He was everyone's hero. He was so desperate to find her and when he knew he couldn't bring Allison back to her children , he was devastated !
    Will all his work be forgotten too, along with all his comrades?
    I pray every day that GBC will not get away with his terrorism. I pray for Allison's family and friends, her children and their friends, and the whole community. Domestic Murder and Violence should not be hidden and forgotten! Australia needs to shine a light on it, not cover it up! Shame on the Appeal decision!! Allowing Gerard Baden Clay to murder Allison, silence Allison and her family, and give him excuses even he couldn't dream up. God help all of us!
     
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