Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

[Sleuth_Noob]

Oh, I get it. Well, it’s definitely possible. I’m not trying to dispute your overall theory, by the way (note my username); I’m just wondering...
But I would tend to think that this person does not have a criminal record. There is a law enforcement component of this somehow, or in some way, and that could very well be that unsub(s) is a LE officer, or is linked to LE system in some way. There were (are) so many different leads that weren’t followed up on, or ever investigated (it seems, anyway).

 

[White_Rabbit]

Oh, I get it. Well, it’s definitely possible. I’m not trying to dispute your overall theory, by the way (note my username); I’m just wondering...
But I would tend to think that this person does not have a criminal record. There is a law enforcement component of this somehow, or in some way, and that could very well be that unsub(s) is a LE officer, or is linked to LE system in some way. There were (are) so many different leads that weren’t followed up on, or ever investigated (it seems, anyway).

I believe Unsub has a connection to Law Enforcement, either a close friend or a family member. I don’t believe Unsub is Law Enforcement because some of his profile aspects would’ve prevented him from passing the background checks, i.e. drug abuse or history of drug abuse, psychological disorders such as explosive rage, sociopathy, psychopathy, etc.. possibly prescribed psychological medications and/or possible time spent in Psych Facilities.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Oh, I get it. Well, it’s definitely possible. I’m not trying to dispute your overall theory, by the way (note my username); I’m just wondering...
But I would tend to think that this person does not have a criminal record. There is a law enforcement component of this somehow, or in some way, and that could very well be that unsub(s) is a LE officer, or is linked to LE system in some way. There were (are) so many different leads that weren’t followed up on, or ever investigated (it seems, anyway).

Please don’t hesitate to dispute any part of my theory.. I welcome honest discussion and will not take offense. My goal here is to for Unsub to be apprehended and brought to justice, That is more important to me than my theory being proven correct.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Aren’t there LE officers, along w. lots of other working professionals, who also possess these same traits and somehow manage to pass background checks?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

And also manage to avoid arrest?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

The Golden State Killer is one good example. He passed background check, and became a LE officer, committing a large number of his crimes while he was a police officer, some of them while he was on duty. He successfully managed to disguise his sociopathology; his LE training and expertise helped allow him to carry out his deranged fantasies, and also helped him to avoid arrest.

 

[White_Rabbit]

The Golden State Killer is one good example. He passed background check, and became a LE officer, committing a large number of his crimes while he was a police officer, some of them while he was on duty. He successfully managed to disguise his sociopathology; his LE training and expertise helped allow him to carry out his deranged fantasies, and also helped him to avoid arrest.

I’m not well read into the case of the Golden State Killer.

It is a possibility that Unsub may have been able to pass a background check for Law Enforcement, but there are certain aspects of the case, and his personality, that lead me to believe that he could not so easily disguise his psychology.

The first is that he displayed explosive rage when he murdered Unidentified Asian Male. When he discovered he had been deceived and emasculated he completely lost control and beat him viscously to death.

The second is the phone calls to Amanda Barthelemy. Why did he need to call her? He couldn’t control his psychopathy because he has a subconscious need to inflict physical and mental pain not only on his victims, but also the people that cared about them.

(Consciously Unsub may perceive himself to be helping his victims by leading them away from a life of prostitution, or as he puts it, being a “*advertiser censored*”.)

He would have had to disguise anger and psychopathic traits, mental illness, mental illness medications and therapy, drug abuse, rehabilitation facilities like CPEP or South Oaks, etc.. from Law Enforcement in order to pass the background checks, and he seems to display a lack of control of particular dominant emotions to do this.

Even if he had managed to disguise all of this and pass the background checks, his subsequent treatment and handling of Law Enforcement subjects would not have gone unnoticed by his fellow police officers and superiors. Especially his treatment of subjects of prostitution.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Well some on this forum would say that you just described the personality of former SCPD Chief Jimmy Burke. How does an officer who got caught w. a prostitute get promoted to Chief of Police? Tom Spota, that’s how.
Did Joe Brewer and Burke know each other?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Well some on this forum would say that you just described the personality of former SCPD Chief Jimmy Burke. How does an officer who got caught w. a prostitute get promoted to Chief of Police? Tom Spota, that’s how.
Did Joe Brewer and Burke know each other?

That may be so, but let's think a little deeper into it.

My opinion is that the LISK investigation is the consolidation of three separate cases:

1) Shannan Gilbert
2) The Gilgo Beach 4 and Unidentified Asian Male
3) Jessica Taylor and the other unidentified victims who were dismembered.

I've already stated that I believe Shannan Gilbert's death is the result of involuntary manslaughter on the part of Peter Hackett, with Michael Pak as an unwitting accessory after the fact, and Jessica Taylor and the other unidentified victims to be attributed to John Bittrolff.

Let's focus on the Gilgo Beach 4 with the idea that James Burke may be Unsub, and compare some of the more relevant aspects of Unsubs psychological profile:

He is a white male in his mid-30s to mid-late-40s.

James Burke is a white male in the correct age range.

He is financially secure.

James Burke is financially secure.

He lives now or used to live on or near Ocean Parkway on the South Shore of Long Island.

James Burke is from Smithtown and lives in Saint James on the North Shore of Long Island.

He has relatives or close friends who are in law enforcement.

James Burke is in law enforcement and has friends who are in law enforcement.

He has an explosive temper and a history of violent episodes.

James Burke has a history of violent episodes.

He has a history of drug abuse.

He has been described as a drug dealer and as being around drugs, but am not sure if he has a history of using drugs.

He is very charming and attractive to women, especially those of the victims age group.

I've not seen him described as attractive or charming to women, especially those of the victims age group.

Conclusions:

He does fit some of the more relevant aspects of Unsub's psychological profile.

His residence is within 25 minutes of North Babylon.

His personality seems to be that of a criminal who seeks power and self gratification.

I'm open to the idea that he could be Unsub.

Questions:

Does his personality seem to be that of a person who murders young women in a ritualistic manner, and then taunts their loved ones after the fact?

Where was he and who was he with, on the nights of Monday, July 9, 2007, Sunday, July 12, 2009, Saturday, May 1, 2010, Sunday, June 6, 2010
Thursday, September 2, 2010?

Was a recording his voice was played to either Sara Karnes and/or Amanda Barthelemy, to see if they could compare it to the voice of the killer that called them?

Do we know if James Burke ever owned a belt with the initials HM or MH embossed on it?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

From the LISK podcast/interview w. Gilbert attorney John Ray: Ray alleges that Burke and a former girlfriend named Heather Malone—who Ray points out has the initials of HM—together ran a prostitution ring out of a shared home in St. James.

 

[Fabra]

i. He dabbles in the occult.

Curious about this one, White_Rabbit. What makes you think so?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Curious about this one, White_Rabbit. What makes you think so?

Hi Fabra.. The nature of the crimes regarding the Gilgo beach 4. The victims seem to be young women all very similar in age and size, they all went missing during the summer, they were all strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap, they were all spaced evenly apart on the water. Everything seemed to be done in the same manner, almost like Unsub was performing some type of ritual.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Hi Fabra.. The nature of the crimes regarding the Gilgo beach 4. The victims seem to be young women all very similar in age and size, they all went missing during the summer, they were all strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap, they were all spaced evenly apart on the water. Everything seemed to be done in the same manner, almost like Unsub was performing some type of ritual.

It’s also possible, in relation to physical similarities of the girls, that that is simply his physical preference, or ‘type’. Also, it’s worth noting that they were all quite petite specifically.

 

[Mrs.M.]

I’m not well read into the case of the Golden State Killer.

It is a possibility that Unsub may have been able to pass a background check for Law Enforcement, but there are certain aspects of the case, and his personality, that lead me to believe that he could not so easily disguise his psychology.

The first is that he displayed explosive rage when he murdered Unidentified Asian Male. When he discovered he had been deceived and emasculated he completely lost control and beat him viscously to death.

The second is the phone calls to Amanda Barthelemy. Why did he need to call her? He couldn’t control his psychopathy because he has a subconscious need to inflict physical and mental pain not only on his victims, but also the people that cared about them.

(Consciously Unsub may perceive himself to be helping his victims by leading them away from a life of prostitution, or as he puts it, being a “*advertiser censored*”.)

He would have had to disguise anger and psychopathic traits, mental illness, mental illness medications and therapy, drug abuse, rehabilitation facilities like CPEP or South Oaks, etc.. from Law Enforcement in order to pass the background checks, and he seems to display a lack of control of particular dominant emotions to do this.

Even if he had managed to disguise all of this and pass the background checks, his subsequent treatment and handling of Law Enforcement subjects would not have gone unnoticed by his fellow police officers and superiors. Especially his treatment of subjects of prostitution.

When he made the calls the unsub also knew when to get off of the phone and to be in a crowded area. Also making it likely that he has a background in LE.

 

[Mrs.M.]

From the LISK podcast/interview w. Gilbert attorney John Ray: Ray alleges that Burke and a former girlfriend named Heather Malone—who Ray points out has the initials of HM—together ran a prostitution ring out of a shared home in St. James.

Have the ever shown a full picture of the belt? Or just the ends with the initials?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Have the ever shown a full picture of the belt? Or just the ends with the initials?

There is a whole thread on the belt:
The HW or WH belt evidence at gilgonews

 

[Mrs.M.]

Thank you. The H in the belt drives me crazy because it looks like the H in the Hurley symbol, the surfing line of clothing, but when I looked up the logo it is just made from parantheses.

 

[NicMed329]

I believe that this is a well oiled machine that has been established many years ago. There are a lot of people in this machine to ensure that unsub(s) will not get caught. Powerful people. SCPD has always been a corrupt institution and I'm sure there is a ton of blackmailing going on both inside and outside the dept, in various other powerful areas of long island. I believe Oak Beach had always been a secluded area where the people know what's going on and keep quiet. I'm a long island native and the impression that I get is that people don't want to get involved and pretend nothing is going on. I do believe that Burke is one of the killers, but I don't think he's the only one at all. I also think it's naive to think that everyone in LE gets drug tested at all (I have family in LE and the drugs that goes on is really wild). I also think that people can pass a psychological test when you're a raging sociopath. As someone who works in the field of psychiatry, I see this in action all the time. There are more sociopaths in law enforcement, attorneys, etc. Sociopaths are attracted to fields of power where they can blend in with society. This is all IMO.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I believe that this is a well oiled machine that has been established many years ago. There are a lot of people in this machine to ensure that unsub(s) will not get caught. Powerful people. SCPD has always been a corrupt institution and I'm sure there is a ton of blackmailing going on both inside and outside the dept, in various other powerful areas of long island. I believe Oak Beach had always been a secluded area where the people know what's going on and keep quiet. I'm a long island native and the impression that I get is that people don't want to get involved and pretend nothing is going on. I do believe that Burke is one of the killers, but I don't think he's the only one at all. I also think it's naive to think that everyone in LE gets drug tested at all (I have family in LE and the drugs that goes on is really wild). I also think that people can pass a psychological test when you're a raging sociopath. As someone who works in the field of psychiatry, I see this in action all the time. There are more sociopaths in law enforcement, attorneys, etc. Sociopaths are attracted to fields of power where they can blend in with society. This is all IMO.

In order to eliminate James Burke as the killer we would need to know where he was or who he was with on the night of each victim’s disappearance. We would also need Amanda Barthelemy and Sara Karnes to listen to his voice to try and compare it to the killer’s voice.

If the theory that there are multiple unsubs is correct then I don’t believe that this case can ever be solved. If James Burke is one of the unsubs, and is the only lead into the group, I don’t see him rolling over.

The only hope then would be that there is sufficient evidence to tie him to any one of the crimes, and the fear of spending the rest of his life in jail will outweigh the fear of the group.

The cases of the Gilgo Beach 4 have too many similarities in the modus operandi for them to be different unsubs.

I still believe that it is one killer and that James Burke could be a suspect, and if that is the case then either SCPD or the FBI can ascertain his alibi the nights of the victim’s disappearances, and perform the voice comparisons of the phone calls.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

White Rabbit—so many of your questions in relationship to the unknown variables come from the logic of deductive reasoning; anyone that is in LE, or has family that works in LE, knows the value of this type of very rudimentary logic, as it can be (and usually is) applied to virtually every different scenario in life where there are questions without clearly defined answers…
Many items that you mention—questions related to Burke and others—can easily be verified or dismissed. But what if there was no attempt made to prove or disprove? That, by itself alone, defies logic in relationship to the basic procedure of an investigation.
Rather than jump down the rabbit hole of ‘why’, it’s reasonable to assume the obvious: if there is no investigation, there is no arrest(s). Deductive reasoning in this case leads directly back to the investigators, who do NOT want a complete investigation because an investigation will implicate them, or adversely affect their interests in a very damaging way somehow.