Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

[otto]

Well, at least the separation thing is a good thing. My problem is, a psychopath is fueled by rage and an feeling of entitlement while the sociopath is just emotionally distanced and has no emotional understanding of social behavior. So in a way,

psychopath=sociopath+rage.

The reason, why I thought, you meant actually psychopath is, those murders indicate underlying rage. Which is quite not the sociopath's but the psychopath's trait.



My problem is, to imagine, how would someone come in such a position if he is NOT there all the time. He would have to stay in the area just to keep up that position. So to me, being 8-9 months of the year not there and a position like that sounds contradictory.



What indicates to you, Amber Lynn Costello's murder wasn't planned? There are no differences as far as I followed the media. She was dropped there the same way as the other three, wrapped in burlap, about the same distance from the road. Unless you want to inject Shannan Gilbert here, but then you are in the wrong thread and we can ask a mod to move your posts in the SG threads.

I'm not convinced that the murders suggest rage. Terrible things can happen while the murderer is calm ... just look at Dr Mengele.

 

[Seaslug44]

... and another girl was last heard from when she was at the hotel along the same stretch of road as another body. In fact, two women were last heard from at that hotel. There's no explanation for what happened to them other than one was picked up at the hotel and the other was picked up hitchhiking outside the hotel (perhaps she figured it out too late and accidentally stepped into a hitchhiking vehicle driven by the guy)...

What girls, what hotel & which road are you referring to?

Each of the GB4 disappeared from a completely different location (one was picked up at the end of her street in North Babylon, One from the port authority bus terminal, one from a curb near her apartment in the Bronx and one who walked out of the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge). There is no proof that any of the GB4 have ever crossed paths or have been at the same hotel, in the same town, or on the same road.

 

[truthspider]

I'm not convinced that the murders suggest rage. Terrible things can happen while the murderer is calm ... just look at Dr Mengele.

hmmm a doctor who enjoyed inflicting suffering on children. interesting. i wonder where they buried him, i'd like to reanimate that devil and put him through some experiments of my own.

 

[Peter Brendt]

And to add to what Peter said I would suggest there would have been more murders if his dump site had not been found and spread in the MSM.
ALC was killed in early Sept and does not fit his June/July pattern (GB4). Why Sept? Ramping up seems good. Any other reasons?

It was the first time, he killed two in a year on the East Coast. Since he appears to be some kind of stalker, he would need some time between the murders to stalk the second one. 4-6 weeks appear to me as not so out of the frame. So the amount of time, ALC "hangs behind" is probably just the amount of time, he stalked her.
And in 2010, we had some pretty rough times for the construction industry. Maybe he had the time for a second murder, because he got work in South or Southwest a little later than in the other years?

 

[CMan0928]

hmmm a doctor who enjoyed inflicting suffering on children. interesting. i wonder where they buried him, i'd like to reanimate that devil and put him through some experiments of my own.

You'd have to talk to the Sao Paulo government. They confiscated the remains in 1985 after they were exhumed by authorities.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'm not convinced that the murders suggest rage. Terrible things can happen while the murderer is calm ... just look at Dr Mengele.

I would be happy if things were that simple. In my experience, the differences are more telling than the similarities. Mengele was justified in his own mind by doing, what his government sanctioned. In that, he was at the peak of what many people back then did to one or the other degree. By doing it more extreme, he made a profit in his professional reputation (or so he thought).
LISK on the other hand hunts and kills prostitutes. No society sanctioned that. He makes no social or financial gains. So his sole reward is an emotional one. This puts Mengele and LISK in two different typologies from the start.

 

[Peter Brendt]

And how does CPH come into this thread? There is no connection between CPH and any of the GB4. I suggest to take the doctor elsewhere before the work the mods need to move all those little tids and bits from the SG case back to where they belong, becomes unbearable.

 

[otto]

I would be happy if things were that simple. In my experience, the differences are more telling than the similarities. Mengele was justified in his own mind by doing, what his government sanctioned. In that, he was at the peak of what many people back then did to one or the other degree. By doing it more extreme, he made a profit in his professional reputation (or so he thought).
LISK on the other hand hunts and kills prostitutes. No society sanctioned that. He makes no social or financial gains. So his sole reward is an emotional one. This puts Mengele and LISK in two different typologies from the start.

My point is that rage is not required for murder to appear brutal. Sociopathic murderers do terrible thing to others. I'm of the opinion that this murderer is a sociopath because he is methodical and enjoys inflicting psychological terror. I understood that you concluded that because the murders showed some degree of violence, the murderer must be a psychopath. I disagree.

 

[Peter Brendt]

My point is that rage is not required for murder to appear brutal. Sociopathic murderers do terrible thing to others. I'm of the opinion that this murderer is a sociopath because he is methodical and enjoys inflicting psychological terror. I understood that you concluded that because the murders showed some degree of violence, the murderer must be a psychopath. I disagree.

Whoops, misunderstanding; I don't conclude, he is a psychopath because he killed brutally. That's a thing anyone can do, a psychopath, a sociopath and even any normal person if the need arises. Brutality per se says nothing.
The reason why I think, he's a psychopath is the dump site. He dropped them in a clustered drive-by revisitable dump site. Means, the single victim has no meaning to him, but what they symbolize to him in their summary. And since killing for symbolism indicates rage or hate against what the symbol stands for, I would look in the direction of rage/hate. Aside of that, this would hint on a mission-driven type and those are usually either delusional or psychopathic and he appears too organized to me to suffer from delusional breaks. But hey, that's only my opinion, so we can agree to disagree. The more bases we cover, the better it is anyway.

 

[SoSueMe]

Careful folks. Just sleuth the LISK and stick to the case.

 

[Justiceforever]

I don't know if there are sex scene raves, but that doesn't mean there aren't. Merely that I don't know.
The problem I have with the "homicidal john" theory is, it doesn't fit on any level. As soon, as you have two different last johns or one of the girls "off-duty", you need to construct a lot to hold upright that theory. For example, Maureen was last heard off from that bus terminal. To make the homicidal john happen, you need to construct, she decided, against what was already her outspoken intention, to take on another client. This client had to happen by chance a serial killer in the making, who has already developed a fully blown signature, which means, also his hunting behavior was fully developed ... only, this one night, he had to be for unknown reasons under way in a car to meet by chance Maureen. You see, how far this construction has to go to bring all four under one hat. So I don't believe in a homicidal john. And if it would be one, we would have heard since a while from other Craigslist escorts, who had this strange wannabe john, they rejected, the whole works as usual in similar cases.
Thus, their appointment book wouldn't help us. However, you can bet on him making video or stills not only while killing them but also before.

What dp you thi.k of a homicidal pimp/driver scenerio?

 

[Peter Brendt]

What dp you thi.k of a homicidal pimp/driver scenerio?

Honestly, nothing. No motive, the last johns were different (or in the case of MBB non-existent), no possibility to connect one driver to all four victims.

 

[LINative13]

Not all Sociopaths are murderers. They just have an ability to pull emotion out of a decision (in a nutshell).

 

[BKS]

If LE has any suspects in the GB4, they are keeping it to themselves for good reason. We know that SK's do not just stop killing therefore he is either dead, has left the area, is in jail or has found other more seclusive sites to dispose of his victims. Maybe he has even changed his MO and murders that don't appear to be related really are the SK. That being said, I think LE in Nassau, Suffolk and surrounding counties should look at all vehicles pulled to the side of the road as suspicious, especially along desolate areas and lovers lanes etc. We know that the LISK returned to the GB4 site again on at least 3 occasions, he probably relived the excitement of the murders and checked to see if anyone had been near the area. He may even have returned to the GB4 site after the GB4 were discovered to see how well LE had done their investigation. As to the burlap, could this have been a way to preserve the bodies for future visits yet prevent him from adding evidence to the scene through necrophilia?

 

[Redbird]

There are two people I consider "favorite" POIs. Both of these men have money and I believe they had a plan in place to leave LI if things got too hot for them. Both of these men have left the area and may well have started their hunting game in a new location. MOO

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

Thank you so much Peter for starting this topic.

One thing we do know is that our suspect has got to be familiar with NYC and the Bronx because there is zero proof that Maureen or Melissa were anywhere near Long Island when they disappeared.

Maureen was most likely abducted in NYC and Melissa near her home in the Bronx.

Does this not suggest that there is almost a 50% chance that the killer resides (or once resided) in NYC?

Or does the killer have a home in New York City and a second home near Gilo Beach?

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

Its just a guess. But I don't think he killed them on the same day he met them for the first time. I think he may had groom them for that final day. And perhaps groomed over a period of time. Made them eventually feel comfortable with being with him from seeing him over a period of time.

The first meeting sure they had there guards up because they knew the risk. But over a period of time with there interactions with him they became lapsed and just seen him as a person seeking companionship whatever.

Could explain why the two left there cells at home. They were going away for awhile couple of days or whatever and decided they didn't want to be bothered with the phone so left it home on the charger.

Did any of these women have vehicles? And if so where were they found?
That last meeting place they went to, I suspect they had no driver of course to get there. And a cab was not a option. He could have just met them somewhere and picked them up himself. Or if any had a vehicle and drove it to the final place, He could have just returned it to where they were living to make it appear they had just vanished.

Which MB sister received the phone-calls?

I also agree that the killer saw these women several times before he unmasked the demonic side of his charming personality.

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

There are two people I consider "favorite" POIs. Both of these men have money and I believe they had a plan in place to leave LI if things got too hot for them. Both of these men have left the area and may well have started their hunting game in a new location. MOO

The red tail hawk is my favorite bird of prey with the ability to see a snake on the ground from so high up in the air. Redbird, I think that you are on target and I ask myself how and why you share the same instincts as me about who the killer is? Where does it come from? How do you know these things?

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

Not all Sociopaths are murderers. They just have an ability to pull emotion out of a decision (in a nutshell).

And they have no conscience or the ability to feel empathy.

 

[Peter Brendt]

If LE has any suspects in the GB4, they are keeping it to themselves for good reason. We know that SK's do not just stop killing therefore he is either dead, has left the area, is in jail or has found other more seclusive sites to dispose of his victims. Maybe he has even changed his MO and murders that don't appear to be related really are the SK. That being said, I think LE in Nassau, Suffolk and surrounding counties should look at all vehicles pulled to the side of the road as suspicious, especially along desolate areas and lovers lanes etc. We know that the LISK returned to the GB4 site again on at least 3 occasions, he probably relived the excitement of the murders and checked to see if anyone had been near the area. He may even have returned to the GB4 site after the GB4 were discovered to see how well LE had done their investigation. As to the burlap, could this have been a way to preserve the bodies for future visits yet prevent him from adding evidence to the scene through necrophilia?

I took a week off, so that's a late response, sorry.

- The dump site at Gilgo Beach is more of a drive-by dump site. That means, the victims as individuals don't have meaning. Look for comparison at the Green River dump sites, or, still a classic, Ted Bundy's Mt. Taylor dump site. Those are real re visitable dump sites. Gilgo Beach is not. Too mear to the road, to near to Oak Beach and too much poison ivy around for committing comfortably necrophilia.
But the specific nature of the Gilgo Beach dump site is that of a trophy collection. Means, the killer jogged his memory by driving by, maybe slowly, maybe at night. Which indicates, at least to me, what he savored there was not sexual memories (those are based on individual victims) but a generalized sense of victory. The single victims means nothing, the sum of them symbolize something for him. Another one of the hints, that he is at least partially mission-driven.

The other misconception is, SKs don't stop if they are not count. Psychopaths don't. They are rage fueled. Sociopaths can stop, and they will if they find something more exciting for themselves, or if killing and playing with the police gets boring. BTK for example stopped when he founded a family. And for sure, there is a reason why Zodiac stopped and I bet, it wasn't because he got arrested for an unrelated crime.

But yes, I agree, especially SCPD should look for other dump sites which were created after the searches of 2011. The last body in the Gilgo Beach dump site was from 2010. So, if nothing has stopped LISK, where are the 2011 bodies, or most likely in the meantime, at least one 2012 body? Now, we know, LISK can be pretty bold. So at least, SCPD should check regularly the vicinity of the Gilgo Beach dump site. Because the killer may have the idea "they searched there already, they think, it's clean, so they won't come back"