Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

Though I wouldn’t completely trust the words of either Akeem Cruz or Johnny Terry, the idea of the victims being familiar to the killer seems consistent in the cases of Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman and Amber Lynn Costello.

We cannot know in the case of Maureen Brainard-Barnes if she was familiar with the killer.
I think I see where the confusion is.
I was referencing Betty's comment about travel expenses from different states. I was just mentioning that those costs are offset by ensuring their regular clients knew they'd be in town. It would be pretty pricey to travel from another state for the weekend and stay in a hotel unless one had confirmed that regulars were aware. That added to clients obtained by advertising would make the trip profitable (hopefully!) But no, I wasn't including the killer as one of her regulars. I hope I understood what you were saying this time lol
 
Geez. Who wants to bet Mercury is in retrograde right now??

It's like MaBell in here rn

(Extra points to anyone who gets that reference)
 
I swear I'm not lying.
Mercury official goes retrograde in 7.5 hours.
Smh. Never fails.
 
Unsub must be in his mid to late forties by now. If my theory proves correct, it’s possible that he may be in a relationship or even married to a woman who had been a troubled sex worker who was unaware of his dark past, and he successfully “saved” her from the lifestyle. My feeling is he has some form of attachment to the area on the south shore of Long Island and may still be living in the area. How many women beyond the GB4 were killed before he found the one he “saved”?
 
I don’t think he decided he was going to kill them. It seems more likely that they were crimes of passion, committed on the spur of the moment, when he was triggered into an uncontrollable rage.


LISK was too secretive for it to be a crime of passion imo.......he knew exactly what he wanted to do to the GB4. The victims were are all around the same height & weight.....he only selected women he knew he could overpower......he used a VPN to scan Craiglist & select his victims. Once he gained their confidence with outrageous high payments he was offering, they were drawn into his web.

Now whether LISK had gotten together with any of the GB4 previously, its odd that he would expose himself by meeting up with a victim ahead of time. He might have talked to the victims several times on the phone thru a burner until they became comfortable enough to meet up, but I believe thats the most exposure he probably allowed.
 
Unsub must be in his mid to late forties by now. If my theory proves correct, it’s possible that he may be in a relationship or even married to a woman who had been a troubled sex worker who was unaware of his dark past, and he successfully “saved” her from the lifestyle. My feeling is he has some form of attachment to the area on the south shore of Long Island and may still be living in the area. How many women beyond the GB4 were killed before he found the one he “saved”?
How many were "taken care of" by Hurricane Bill in 2009 and then Sandy?
 
LISK was too secretive for it to be a crime of passion imo.......he knew exactly what he wanted to do to the GB4. The victims were are all around the same height & weight.....he only selected women he knew he could overpower......he used a VPN to scan Craiglist & select his victims. Once he gained their confidence with outrageous high payments he was offering, they were drawn into his web.

Now whether LISK had gotten together with any of the GB4 previously, its odd that he would expose himself by meeting up with a victim ahead of time. He might have talked to the victims several times on the phone thru a burner until they became comfortable enough to meet up, but I believe thats the most exposure he probably allowed.
He could be secretive and they still be crimes of passion. I think the fact that they were all petite was because they were the type of women he was attracted to. They may have reminded him of someone from a past relationship. I feel that he would be able to overpower most women, if my theory about him and Unidentified Asian Male were true.

I agree that the high payments are what drew them in, but he gained their confidence and trust as someone who was trying to help them. He surely insisted that they keep their relationship confidential. I'm not sure they would have trusted him to the point where they lowered their safety precautions (i.e., cell phone, driver, etc..), unless they were able to meet him more than once without incident.

Had he met up with them before without incident, and came off as someone who was genuinely concerned about them and paid them handsomely, why should he be suspicious to them?

That is why I suspect these were crimes of passion. They were not afraid of him until the dark side of his personality showed up, and at that time it was too late.
 
He could be secretive and they still be crimes of passion. I think the fact that they were all petite was because they were the type of women he was attracted to. They may have reminded him of someone from a past relationship. I feel that he would be able to overpower most women, if my theory about him and Unidentified Asian Male were true.

I agree that the high payments are what drew them in, but he gained their confidence and trust as someone who was trying to help them. He surely insisted that they keep their relationship confidential. I'm not sure they would have trusted him to the point where they lowered their safety precautions (i.e., cell phone, driver, etc..), unless they were able to meet him more than once without incident.

Had he met up with them before without incident, and came off as someone who was genuinely concerned about them and paid them handsomely, why should he be suspicious to them?

That is why I suspect these were crimes of passion. They were not afraid of him until the dark side of his personality showed up, and at that time it was too late.



I guess we will agree to disagree on some aspects......:)
 
I guess we will agree to disagree on some aspects......:)
No worries.. I hope disagreements can get us closer to finding the truth. In the case of Unsub and the GB4 it can be confusing, because though I believe these were crimes of passion, he was very methodic and calculating, to the point of being ritualistic, in the way he disposed of them.
 
just a copy cat or someone just being cruel possibly someone who didn't like him already and knew this would be twisting the knife?
This will be confusing but I'll give it a shot...I only see the 30 calls reported on by thedailybeast, they are parroted here and there in message boards and maybe a podcast, but the only print or tv media is that single article. They are mentioned in Kolkers book but he appears to be using tdb reporting. The reporters who pinned the article (among others) are in the acknowledgments of the book. Here are the two below for comparison

Daily Beast article; (Edited for focus but in the order the quotes appeared)

Detectives and family members combed through her phone records. Lynn discovered that a few calls were made to the escort service James Bond Entertainment. Lynn's fiancé Jeff called the number and spoke to a man who told him that Barthelemy had worked with him on a number of occasions.

A few of the numbers belonged to her regular clients, one of whom was a married man who told police that Barthelemy didn't show up for their scheduled date at a motel in Jersey City.

Other numbers were traced to throwaway phones purchased in Manhattan. One of the phones was linked to the name Mickey Mouse.

Around the same time, Terry said he began to get his own taunting phone calls. His calls were from a "white guy," he said.

"He was threatening me," recalled Terry. "He said, you like to do some crazy stuff with Melissa, I know where you be at. Most of the time he seemed to be drunk. He knew who I was. He knew I had tattoos on my back. Maybe he felt [Melissa] was doing something he didn't like." Terry said the anonymous caller called him more than 30 times over a period of eight months.

Lost Girls book;

The phone calls to Amanda had been well covered in Buffalo in 2009, and the media circled back to Melissa’s family for more details. One reporter even reached Blaze, who, quoted by his given name, Johnny Terry, claimed he’d also received strange calls—about thirty, he said, over eight months—from someone he described as a “white guy.” “He was threatening me,” he said. “He said, ‘You liked to do somecrazy stuff with Melissa. I know where you be at.’ ” The police traced the caller’s number not to Melissa’s cell but to a disposable phone registered in the name of Mickey Mouse.

Which brings me to the second point in need of clarification of why did the book attribute the MM burner to the calls to john terry. That's not what TDB article states. He may have sources for this claim but it's not clear to me that he does.

My only other reason to doubt the calls were from the killer is the impression I got from listening to one of this site's radio shows from years ago when Josh and Rachel were on. Blog talk radio I believe it was. They seemed to scoff at the idea when the question was raised. It's been a while but I want to say the implications were, the calls were made from people in search of what had happened to Melissa.

I'll gladly stand to be corrected if anyone, including Bob, Josh or Rache, would like to poke their head in to clarify.
 
This will be confusing but I'll give it a shot...I only see the 30 calls reported on by thedailybeast, they are parroted here and there in message boards and maybe a podcast, but the only print or tv media is that single article. They are mentioned in Kolkers book but he appears to be using tdb reporting. The reporters who pinned the article (among others) are in the acknowledgments of the book. Here are the two below for comparison

Daily Beast article; (Edited for focus but in the order the quotes appeared)

Detectives and family members combed through her phone records. Lynn discovered that a few calls were made to the escort service James Bond Entertainment. Lynn's fiancé Jeff called the number and spoke to a man who told him that Barthelemy had worked with him on a number of occasions.

A few of the numbers belonged to her regular clients, one of whom was a married man who told police that Barthelemy didn't show up for their scheduled date at a motel in Jersey City.

Other numbers were traced to throwaway phones purchased in Manhattan. One of the phones was linked to the name Mickey Mouse.

Around the same time, Terry said he began to get his own taunting phone calls. His calls were from a "white guy," he said.


"He was threatening me," recalled Terry. "He said, you like to do some crazy stuff with Melissa, I know where you be at. Most of the time he seemed to be drunk. He knew who I was. He knew I had tattoos on my back. Maybe he felt [Melissa] was doing something he didn't like." Terry said the anonymous caller called him more than 30 times over a period of eight months.

Lost Girls book;

The phone calls to Amanda had been well covered in Buffalo in 2009, and the media circled back to Melissa’s family for more details. One reporter even reached Blaze, who, quoted by his given name, Johnny Terry, claimed he’d also received strange calls—about thirty, he said, over eight months—from someone he described as a “white guy.” “He was threatening me,” he said. “He said, ‘You liked to do somecrazy stuff with Melissa. I know where you be at.’ ” The police traced the caller’s number not to Melissa’s cell but to a disposable phone registered in the name of Mickey Mouse.

Which brings me to the second point in need of clarification of why did the book attribute the MM burner to the calls to john terry. That's not what TDB article states. He may have sources for this claim but it's not clear to me that he does.

My only other reason to doubt the calls were from the killer is the impression I got from listening to one of this site's radio shows from years ago when Josh and Rachel were on. Blog talk radio I believe it was. They seemed to scoff at the idea when the question was raised. It's been a while but I want to say the implications were, the calls were made from people in search of what had happened to Melissa.

I'll gladly stand to be corrected if anyone, including Bob, Josh or Rache, would like to poke their head in to clarify.
Could the killer have gone through Melissa's phone and seen contact information and pictures of Johnny Terry, text conversations between Johnny Terry and Melissa? Then purchase a burner phone under the name Mickey Mouse which he used to taunt Johnny Terry?
 
Could the killer have gone through Melissa's phone and seen contact information and pictures of Johnny Terry, text conversations between Johnny Terry and Melissa? Then purchase a burner phone under the name Mickey Mouse which he used to taunt Johnny Terry?
I guess he could have, but I have reservations of the credibility when such sensational claims are made with little to no follow up. I guess it's possible the cops put the kibosh on this would be incredible revelation. There's been much written and televised from reputable sources in these last years in regard to this case but not one peep about this fantastical claim.
 
Wouldn't have been a copy cat I don't think.. Melissa was still a missing person, and not known publicly until the bodies were found Dec. 2010.


i wasn't guessing as such, i was trying to figure out what the OP was referring to as they left it open ended

the calls were made from people in search of what had happened to Melissa.

so people just inserting themselves in to a situation, it does happen with crimes that get some attention either locally or nationally
 
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so people just inserting themselves in to a situation, it does happen with crimes that get some attention either locally or nationally
I'm assuming loved ones thinking he might have some answers.
 
Yes! That's the closest station to Gilgo, Oak Beach, etc. If the victim was being picked up by LISK, perhaps this station was chosen by him, not just for the close proximity to Oak Beach, etc., but also because it's less crowded? JMO, just guessing.

LIRR Station Map
Babylon is a little busier. Lindenhurst is a more discreet location, especially if you subscribe to the theory that LISK may be easily recognized by a fair number in the general public.
 
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but if someone local was driving to Oak Beach from Manhattan (as did MP and SG) would they have taken the exit for the bridge on the west end of the island? It seems logical if someone was taking the train that they would go to the Babylon station, then get a ride or taxi from there to Oak Beach. Coming by car, that seems to be the long way? IDK, that's why I'm asking. It has to do with a hypothesis I have about the location of the bodies - SG vs the others. TIA
Nope, I'd still take RM Causeway AT THAT TIME OF DAY. Coming down Meadowbrook then Ocean at that time of night, could end up with some venison in your grill. Not sure what GPS would say, though.
 
It's been 30 years (at least) but I used to make that trip all the time. If I was driving from Manhattan to Oak Beach I'd take the Midtown tunnel out of Manhattan, take the LI Expressway until the Southern State Parkway exit, then take the Southern State Parkway to Route 231 south to Babylon, then Montauk Hwy east until the Robert Moses Beach exit. Having said that, I see that Google Maps does it differently, staying on the LIE for far too long, imo. Still, there's plenty of ways to do it, including taking the Meadowbrook Parkway south in Nassau county, right down to Ocean Parkway (which is, um, desolate).
LIE doesn't have a SSP exit. LIE to Sagtikos, which for these intents and purposes becomes RM Causeway, which dumps onto Ocean Parkway right in front of Oak Beach. Your way is more convoluted and would take longer. There's honestly no reason to ever NOT take a highway to Oak Beach.
 
Thanks for that information. I've been wondering about where the LISK came from as he dumped the bodies along Ocean Parkway. For the Gilgo Beach 4, he was probably driving from east to west, likely having come over on the Robert Moses Causeway bridge.

And if he lived fairly close to the dump site? IDK yet, but there's something relevant about the direction of travel when dumping the Gilgo Beach 4.
Not much bramble on the eastbound side. It's mostly dunes with some beachgrass, highly visible and more open to foot traffic. Westbound side is all thick brush and/or marsh, not conducive to regular foot traffic.
 

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