Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #9

[tarastep50]

Guns may very well have been used in the murders to intimidate if not kill, to make his victims compliant.

There may well be hundreds of other victims out there for all we know and we do not know how they died.

Good point intimidation hadn't thought of that.

 

[kittythehare]

There has been no decision to give the guns back.

If Suffolk wanted to hold on to them as they continue their investigation I do not know why they are giving them to Nassau County - only what I read. And indications were that Nassau was going to perhaps to deal with any violations - are the guns registered legal etc. ? It seems curious that Suffolk is relinquishing custody of the guns

What's legal here ? The lawyers are asking for the guns back - if they have no valid argument legally they won't get them back.


JMO

I don't know or care much, I only see it as a distraction.

A side-show.
No more, no less.

 

[Ruminations]

IMO many of these SK's can present as different personalities to different people. BTK called it "cubing" in his interviews Simplistically it's really the same thing as compartmentalizing.

Rex led a secret life. Although we like to think we know that since he was a sadistic serial killer that he was a really punitive husband and father, we really don't know for sure what type of husband and father he was I don't think.

Also as far as I know the divorce is uncontested. We can only make assumptions about their assets. We do know that they had a ot of tax debt from previous threads. The only real estate asset I think he may own free and clear is the vegas time share which I don't think has a high value or big target audience. It's prob just a money suck with all its presumptive fees. The house in Masspq, land in NC , I am betting are either mortgaged to the hilt or have liens on them from the tax debt perhaps.

So in my mind, on their list of assets the $300k ish gun collection has the most value and is the easiest to cash in. Which is not to say that they are not trying to sell other things as well - we just don't have more info to indicate that I don't think. If as stated in the articles, the Suffolk DA petitioned the court to release the guns to Nassau County- that tells me that the guns are not needed as evidence for the case. So what the divorce lawyers are asking is to to skip that step - and return the property to Rex/Asa directly. Maybe the judge decides anything not registered/illegal stays with Nassau the rest back to the family. or something else we will have to wait and see.

What do they need money for - Well first of all, those lawyers don't pay themselves - and we have exhaustively been over what medical could cost etc.

Unraveling that business is another abysmal mess I think. What is there to sell? The value of the business was based on Rex's expertise to ferret out the obscure loopholes in the codes etc. to get difficult real estate/construction approvals. Depending on whether Rex was incorporated/signed for everything personally or how his business was structured, the family may still be on the hook for the lease on the office space, office equipment - and I think a few claims of employees not being paid and who knows what else. Someone - perhaps another lawyer -needs to be paid to unravel all that - maybe even to file bankruptcy for the biz or something to dismiss that debt.

So bottom line I don't find anything nefarious in the two lawyers being in lock step on asking for the guns - the lawyers prob want to be paid - they prob all want a good chunk of change$$$ on account, they are doing their jobs and the parties seemingly have agreed. ALL JMO

I want to point out something about lawyers not being free.

Rex's attorney is literally suggesting giving away property that very likely belongs to him, and could be used to pay Rex's bills, including Rex's lawyers.

NYS is not a community property state when it comes to dividing marital assets. Those firearms could very well be awarded to Rex in a non-contested divorce.


Seriously. When have you ever heard of LE returning evidence in the middle of an investigation? It doesn't happen. And the attorneys know it. They are manipulating public perception to be against LE rather than against sick, sadistic murder.

They want the public to forget that children have grown up without their mothers, people have lost sisters, daughters, cousins, aunts, and very dear friends. So this man could (allegedly) kill them and taunt children with phone calls describing the rape and murder of their beloved big sister. These behaviors are sickening.

LE holding on to evidence is not such behavior. It is typical and fair.

MOO.




MOO

 

[Ruminations]

There has been no decision to give the guns back.

If Suffolk wanted to hold on to them as they continue their investigation I do not know why they are giving them to Nassau County - only what I read. And indications were that Nassau was going to perhaps to deal with any violations - are the guns registered legal etc. ? It seems curious that Suffolk is relinquishing custody of the guns

What's legal here ? The lawyers are asking for the guns back - if they have no valid argument legally they won't get them back.


JMO

The word of the day is FRIVOLOUS.

A motion you know will be lost made simply to discredit LE is an abuse of the court system.

MOO

 

[dotr]

Rex Heuermann: Who is serial killer suspect in Gilgo Beach murders

A Manhattan architect and father-of-two has been arrested in connection to one of the most infamous unsolved serial killer cases along the East Coast. So who really is Rex Heuermann? Rachel Sharp reports

www.the-independent.com

04 August 2023 Rachel Sharp


Map showing proximity of home being searched by police and Gilgo Beach where bodies were found
(Google Maps)

Aerial view of Manorville area where Valerie Mack remains were recovered
(Suffolk County Police Department)

 

[Jurisprudence]

Well then. They shouldn't get divorced. It seems like there is no conflict about the marital assets.

But, if indeed the antiques were inherited by Rex, they would not go to AE in divorce.

Why sell off the guns first? When LE is not finished with them? When the divorce is not final? There are so many assets LE does not have. Like Rex's business, that could be sold. Or the properties in other states? Why not spend the donations?

It is absurd to expect LE to return firearms when a suspect is in custody for murder. Show me one precedent where this has happened . It is absurd to demand to sell off matital assets before a divorce is final. Show me a precedent.

This suspect is being treated typically in terms of search and evidence collection. There is nothing unusual about holding firearms. It is not usual or even ethical to sell off assets that could be non-communal before a separation or divorce agreement is final. There is no reason for this suspect to be treated differently in divorce.

But I don't believe the divorce filing is sincere. IMO, if it were sincere, it would have been filed in Nassau County. Suffolk County is not the appropriate Supreme Court. Neither the plaintiff nor the defendant live there.


MOO

It could be all a ruse.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

My concern with this media campaign about Rex Heuermann and his wife can indirectly elicit public sympathy for Rex, himself.

Rex speaking out publicly through his lawyer, pressuring LE to turn over his guns to her just doesn't sound good. He has no right to pressure LE to do anything. He's not being mistreated, he doesn't deserve special favors. The state has a very strong case against him for the torture and murder of 3, possibly 4 innocent women.

His family may suffer some financial problems because, during the years he was free he never bothered to pay taxes, but instead spent his money on his "hobby" of patronizing and stalking sex workers, then killing them. He's the one who failed his family, not the citizens and government of Suffolk County. He needs to shut up. JMO

JMO

Well said, Betty! Agree 100%

 

[Jurisprudence]

It will be up to the court to decide if the defense's request is approved. If it is not an appropriate request then the judge will rule against it. Defense attorneys file all kinds of motions to help their clients, not all of them are approved by the court. The public's voice will be heard as well, through the prosecution. It will be a fair hearing, IMO.

AE and her adult children are victims and clearly they need finacial assistance and so this effort to acquire and sell the family antique firearms collection is one way they are trying to address the issue. She is not responsible for RH's crimes and financial failures. She has to focus on the situation right now, and what she can do to survive.

I understand your concern, but feeling sympathy for AE is distinct from feeling sympathy for RH, and she should not have to bear the brunt of those in the public who confuse the two.

IMO

Are you aware that she has $55,221 in cash that she didn't have before his arrest? That's very likely $55,221 that she's never had in liquid assets and in that regard, there's a good chance that right now, she may not be struggling financially for the first time in a very long time.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

I have no doubt a judge will make a fair decision for the wife and adult children. But the serial killer, Rex Heuermann, has no right to go to the national news media with his demands. If he wants to help his family, he should zip it. His sense of entitlement and show of bravado are highly inappropriate , given his situation. JMO

Imoo, no reporter worth their salt should have published that unless it was a direct in-person interview in which they asked him questions and got his denial or his claim of the 5th on the record and likewise, reported that.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

More to be upset over imo:

"Heuermann's legal costs, which are being paid for by a county defense agency funded by state and local taxpayers, could reach or exceed $1 million, a tab that would cover a vigorous review of the evidence produced by more than a decade of law-enforcement probes into the killings.

“Without a defense investigation he doesn’t stand a chance, because I think the people of Suffolk would convict a pumpkin because of the notoriety of the case and the horrendous nature of the murders,” said Peter Smith, a Northport-based criminal defense lawyer who is also a former prosecutor and police officer.

Gilgo Beach killings: Defense lawyers offer ways to challenge evidence in case against Rex Heuermann

 

[Warwick1991]

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

I did not say what should or should not happen to the guns - that's up to the judge - so the judge may well come back and say that "isn't a thing" ~!
I pointed out that the Suffolk prosecutors are quoted as saying the guns are not believed to be used in the Gilgo murders
so they are releasing them to Nassau County to deal with - as per all the articles -
It could not be more simple
Will Nassau release them to the Heuermann's - we will wait and see
JMO

One thing to consider is that many of the guns, from prior descriptions in the media, are antique rifles. Those may have considerable monetary value, and due to their size and use of uncommon ammunition, are not likely to have been used in crimes. Pistols and revolvers are a different story.

 

[Sundog]

I believe this was already posted upthread but attaching again for those who may have missed it - BBM

Accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann says his family needs his gun collection back, not Nassau

Heuermann's defense lawyers said his family needs the seized 280 firearms, in part because they need the money that could be earned from sale of the valuable antique guns.

www.newsday.com

"Earlier this month, Suffolk County prosecutors sought to turn over to Nassau County more than 280 firearms seized from Heuermann’s home in the days following his July 13 arrest on first and second-degree murder charges in the killings of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy and Amber Lynn Costello, whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach 13 years ago. Heuermann has pleaded not guilty and remains held without bail at the Suffolk County Jail.

Prosecutors have said Heuermann, 60, who worked as a Manhattan architect before his arrest, is also the “prime suspect” in the slaying of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, whose remains were found with the other three victims. All four of the women — the first of 10 sets of remains found along Ocean Parkway that are believed to be the work of one or more serial killers — were sex workers.

Suffolk County Police Department detectives searched Heuermann’s Massapequa Park home, in Nassau County, for 12 days, ending on July 26.

Prosecutors have said they concluded that some of the weapons may have been possessed in violation of state gun laws and “proper jurisdiction” for potential charges would be in Nassau County.

Suffolk prosecutors have not said specifically which sections of New York’s firearms law Heuermann may have violated, but sought to transfer the guns to Nassau after conversations between law enforcement in Nassau, Suffolk, the New York State Police and the FBI. No guns are believed to have been used in the killings for which Heuermann is accused, prosecutors have said."

All JMO

Thanks for re-posting the details so that we can separate opinion from fact as we discuss this. Sounds like it will be Nassau County that makes the decision on what firearms charges will be brought against RH, and which firearms, if any, will be returned and when.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Caponi cited the likely long wait for his client to face a trial in the killings in making his appeal for the release of the weapons cache to his family.

“Although these items would most assuredly be returned to Rex Heuermann once he has been acquitted of the charges pending against the court, that eventuality may not come to fruition for many months,” he wrote.

Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Heuermann wants home firearms stash handed over to family

Imprisoned Gilgo Beach serial killing suspect Rex Heuermann wants his weapons back. The hulking defendant’s lawyer asked for the return of the more than 280 firearms recovered during a search…

www.nydailynews.com

*I’m watching the new 20/20 Gilgo on Hulu and his assistant from 2010 comes on. She speaks about how Rex was always asking clients to go hunting or shooting and how most declined. I’d love to hear from some of those who went with him. I don’t remember any fact that he actually did go hunting. If he was a good hunter, then he’d certainly have a familiar and favorite blind spot. I’ve yet to see a hunting license applied for. Well maybe, seems like I remember an old one but idk.

 

[Betty P]

Yes agree - they are still investigating in other areas for other crimes that may have been committted with any connection to Rex

Ianal, but I suspect the current search warrant and anything collected as a result of that search warrant(ie the guns) is specific to this case- the Gilgo murders.

The Suffolk County prosecutor is quoted as saying the guns are not believed to have been used in connection to the Gilgo murders. I don't think you can legally hold on to the guns in case you come up with another separate crime in the future.

So my guess is, in the event he is arrested for any future crimes, new search warrants will be issueed specific to those crimes.

What the judge decides to do as far as the guns is anybody's guess, but if Suffolk County thought the guns were integral to their investigation/case IMO they definitely would not be releasing them to anybody - at all -not even to Nassau County.

ALL JMO

I'm sorry you misunderstood or didn't read my previous comments.

It's up to the judge to determine whether the guns should be returned to Rex Heuermann's wife.

It's outrageous and in appropriate for an accused serial killer to go to the national media and criticize the prosecution over ownership of his guns. <modsnip>

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for re-posting the details so that we can separate opinion from fact as we discuss this. Sounds like it will be Nassau County that makes the decision on what firearms charges will be brought against RH, and which firearms, if any, will be returned and when.

<modsnip> The problem is Rex Heuermann and his attorneys using the national news media to gain sympathy for himself and to attack and impugn the prosecution over his gun collection.

A judge will make that decision. Rex needs to stop the PR sympathy campaign or the judge needs to issue a gag order, with no one talking to the news media.

 

[Sundog]

<modsnip> The problem is Rex Heuermann and his attorneys using the national news media to gain sympathy for himself and to attack and impugn the prosecution over his gun collection.

A judge will make that decision. Rex needs to stop the PR sympathy campaign or the judge needs to issue a gag order, with no one talking to the news media.

I don't see RH's attorneys doing anything differently than defense attorneys do in many cases. They file motions, etc., and often give interviews with the media that they think could be favorable to the clients that they represent.

Besides all that, AE is looking for some financial relief, and this is one avenue she and the attorneys are apparently exploring.

And yes, as I have posted all along, the Court will ultimately make the decision.

 

[Betty P]

I don't see RH's attorneys doing anything differently than defense attorneys do in many cases. They file motions, etc., and often give interviews with the media that they think could be favorable to the clients that they represent.

Besides all that, AE is looking for some financial relief, and this is one avenue she and the attorneys are apparently exploring.

And yes, as I have posted all along, the Court will ultimately make the decision.

I've been following these kinds of cases on and off for quite a few years. I've never heard an accused serial killer speak through his attorney to the national media to attack a judge or prosecutor.

<modsnip>

 

[waldojabba]

I don't see RH's attorneys doing anything differently than defense attorneys do in many cases. They file motions, etc., and often give interviews with the media that they think could be favorable to the clients that they represent.

Besides all that, AE is looking for some financial relief, and this is one avenue she and the attorneys are apparently exploring.

And yes, as I have posted all along, the Court will ultimately make the decision.

I totally agree with you @Sundog. <modsnip> To me the lawyers and media are just conducting business as usual. The lawyers and the media are only promoting their own agendas. Ugly as it may be I don’t find this behavior new or just specific to this case JMO

 

[Ruminations]

<modsnip: off topic>

There are good faith times that attorneys make motions that they know will be denied. They could make a certain loser to preserve appeal rights. They could make a certain loser to draw attention to an unfairness. For example, a pro-bono attorney could repeatedly motion for foster parents to be moved into a neglected child's house instead of turning the victims life upside down by pulling them out. That's not going to win, but the thought is long term social change.

But there questionable times to make a motion that is known to be a loser. Lawyers must advocate for their clients and give a fulsome defense of every defendant. But not when it is unethical. I don't see any motive for the attorneys to make this gun motion that makes sense. If Rex can get govt. help with his defense, AE can get government help for her medical insurance. (It's relatively easy to be MA eligible in NYS, and there is not an asset test for most people under 65.) AE has money in the bank, possibly for the first time. Rex has not shown a pattern of prioritizing his family's financial needs, using SNAP while buying guns and sex workers. And in a divorce, the guns or the proceeds for selling them would probably go to Rex in NYS. So financial reasons fall flat.

There is one financial reason that has been hinted at. It doesn't fall flat, but it's ugly. It makes my stomach turn. Right now, Rex is presumed innocent. If he sells his guns at a murderabilia surplus now, he might not be as vulneralble to that money going to the raped, tortured and murdered victims' families in civil suits. Once he is convicted, it is possible such money, money made profiting off crimes, could go to them.

So aside from the ugly, there is no financial reason to unload the guns.

The other reason, which is stamping all over an ethical line IMO, is to change the subject. IMO, all Rex's attorney's are doing is trying to make Rex seem like a victim of LE rather than a person credibly accused of raping, torturing and killing young women, his own daughter's age, and depriving people of their mothers since toddlerhood, there big sisters, their daughters, their good friends. What Rex is accused of is so terrible, of course the lawyers don't want that to be the focus. So, IMO, they have filed this no-win motion simply to change the subject.

I don't see what Rex's lawyers are doing as what lawyers all do. There are some terrible people practicing law. Some even rescued their freedom and law license after being caught laundering money and holding considerable quantities of illegal drugs by making deals with convicted felons with political connections. But this is the exception, and I refuse to cynically say, shucks, that defense lawyers for you! But it is a way to defend your client: it gets the public talking about some poor dude who can't sell his guns instead of some monster who rapes, tortures, kills, and harasses surviving relatives.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

<focus snip>

Ianal, but I suspect the current search warrant and anything collected as a result of that search warrant(ie the guns) is specific to this case- the Gilgo murders.

The Suffolk County prosecutor is quoted as saying the guns are not believed to have been used in connection to the Gilgo murders. I don't think you can legally hold on to the guns in case you come up with another separate crime in the future.

So my guess is, in the event he is arrested for any future crimes, new search warrants will be issueed specific to those crimes.

<focus snip>

I've been looking (way too) deeply into this, and technically, you are correct about this to the best of my research.

But there are a few ways out. These truths do not mean this motion has a chance.

For one thing, the police don't have to release truthful information about their investigation. Maybe they have a GJ witness who saw a man with a gun talking to Amber as she climbed into his car without screaming, for fear of getting shot. It's a baseless theory, but my point is not its merit, but the possibility that something is going on that LE does not yet want the defense to know, at least not until they decide to use that piece of evidence. If the hypothetical evidence they are trying to distract from about a gun pans out as exculpating or both inculpating and going to be used, the defense has to learn about it eventually. But LE could decide the evidence does not exculpate or help them enough to bring it out. So they could want to keep it under wraps until they have to bring it out to use it or to play fair (share exculpating evidence).

Or maybe Suffolk County LE believes what they said about the firearms and the GB-4.

No matter what the truth is, they can easily flip and say, "Never mind, we are still investigating and we need these guns in our custody or with our partners in Nassau."

It does not seem, from lawyers blogs or articles on the subject, that it is going to ever be a winning motion to demand something back that is irrelevant to the investigation, and nearly impossible to get something back that is relevant. So, one thing LE could do if they are still looking into other crimes and haven't charged Rex with them yet, or obtained a warrant, is to simply tell the judge, we're not done with them yet.

But, what if Suffolk County wants to double down on saying that none of the guns were used in the GB-4. Because that is the truth, yet they think a firearm is relevant in another investigation they have not yet admitted to working on? All they have to do is get a new warrant. Don't quite have probable cause yet? Go to plan A, lie.

So LE has all the power to and all of the evidence-seized precedents in court in their favor. All they have to do is 1) say the current investigation is ongoing and they do need the firearms - or 2) get a new warrant.