Going back to the beginning

Zoe Bogart

Let's not ask for the Moon, we have the Stars
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
4,841
Reaction score
33
An inspection of the well and ground could more than likely say whether someone had gone there over the past two years. If dirt had been removed and replaced on top of the well, that’s a clue the lid had been opened.

If a body was ever in the well, cadaver dogs would still hit on it I think.

Yes, you are correct, but I was thinking of finding Haleigh, first and foremost. My thought was only on finding her.

In just three months it will be TWO years! :furious: It just infuriates me that her family has done anything to find her. Why? (No answer needed.) :shakehead:
 

Baznme

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
4,335
Reaction score
8
Perhaps it means the person who committed the crime is an outsider from another state who wasn't born and raised in Satsuma and it isn't Joe.

I think it could mean one of two things or possibly both. At the time the statement was made, the investigation was taking them to Tennessee where Joe was OR that they were exploring the possibility it was an abduction looking outside the Florida borders. It was an open investigation and they were covering their arses.
 

Emeralgem

New Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
8,215
Reaction score
84
Let's not forget, there are witnesses who say MISTY picked up Haleigh from the bus stop that day and headed toward Magnolia with RC speeding behind them.

Of course, there are other witnesses who said RC picked up Haleigh......

I wonder just how hard LE checked the other MHs the rest of the families were living in at the time....Hank/Lisa, Chelsea/Timmy, Tommy/Lindsy, GGS, other MHs occasionally lived in - on and off, not to mention Aunt K's land with so much available space.....

I'm thinking they didn't check any residences belonging to those you have listed...All the attention seemed to be on the MH located at 202 Green Lane..
Weren't they there for two weeks or more?JMO
 

watchinginky

Please let today be the day they find HaLeigh
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
1,349
Reaction score
1
The directions in the mystery letter:

“Check the back of father’s mobile home. From the right end of the mobile home extending out continue for 540 yards straight. At that point go north 12 yards. Dig 2-3 feet, will strike metal covering an old well, check inside, black plastic garbage bag. Circumstances extend statewide and beyond.”


http://staugustine.com/news/2009-09-29/mystery-letter-leads-nowhere

I have googled this many times using the mystery letter and the Magnolia address. Hope it's been checked out. Oh, I'm sure it has by now.

BBM

This may be a stupid thought, but depending on which way you are facing the mh, either side could be considered the "right side". I would hope they would check the directions in the letter from both sides of the mh just to rule out everything. This letter has very specific information and it would be a shame if it were really accurate, but the wrong side of the mh was used.

JMO
 

TxLady2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
8,009
Reaction score
727
Let's not forget, there are witnesses who say MISTY picked up Haleigh from the bus stop that day and headed toward Magnolia with RC speeding behind them.

Of course, there are other witnesses who said RC picked up Haleigh......

I wonder just how hard LE checked the other MHs the rest of the families were living in at the time....Hank/Lisa, Chelsea/Timmy, Tommy/Lindsy, GGS, other MHs occasionally lived in - on and off, not to mention Aunt K's land with so much available space.....[/QUOTE]

You know... that's a good question. I would think LE would have the foresight to go to family's homes, question them, casually look around to see if anything looked amiss, and walk around outside.... just in case the child is hiding somewhere or being hidden, all within the first few days. But with PCSO... who knows? But that is pretty standard nearly everywhere in the case of a missing person, specifically a child, if that child is not found pretty quickly. They don't call everyone down to the station, they like to go to their home just for that purpose... to look it over.
I recall reading somewhere that they sent officers to Baker Co. and got their LE to go with them to search Crystal's and Marie's... so why not all the Croslins' and Ronald's side of the family as well?? Maybe they did and just never thought to inform the public.
 

TxLady2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
8,009
Reaction score
727
snipped

Greenwood said the father noticed Haleigh missing and woke the woman. He said there is no immediate evidence of foul play but that the home off Seven Sisters Road is very near the St. Johns River and that there are canals reaching into the neighborhood.

Why would greenwood say the father noticed her misssing, this is a sergant who is trying to find Haleigh why would he say this????

I suspect that it was the media who misquoted. They do that a lot in the early days of these cases. They get details wrong, because they rush to file the report so they can be first with the interview, and don't stop to get the facts.

Remember when one report gave Misty as being Ron's cousin? I don't have the link but I recall that one very well.
 

Crosby87

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
254
Here is an interesting case that occurred in Interlachen. A 15 year old boy was charged for the murder of his 12 year old friend. The victim’s body was found in a dry septic tank.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=j0EgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Q38EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6579,6556244

<copied>

http://www.sptimes.com/News/031601/State/Boy_gets_life__no_par.shtml

BOY GETS LIFE, NO PAROLE, FOR STRANGLING PLAYMATE

John Silva, 15, hid the body of the 12-year-old in a septic tank. A judge will recommend a juvenile prison.

©Associated Press

© St. Petersburg Times, published March 16, 2001
________________________________________

PALATKA -- A 15-year-old boy was sentenced Thursday to life in prison without parole for strangling a younger playmate and dumping his body into a dry septic tank.
John Silva, who showed no reaction to the sentence, was tried as an adult and convicted of first-degree murder. The body of his victim, 12-year-old Jerry Lee Alley Jr., was found hog-tied at the bottom of the tank last May.

A note found with the body included the lines, "strip to underware," "tie up hands," "gag" and "cover eyes." Investigators said it was written by Silva, who was a neighbor and schoolmate of Alley in a rural neighborhood of Interlachen, about 15 miles west of Palatka in northeast Florida.

"Jerry was a special boy," said his grandmother, Anne Alley. "Our lives have changed forever. If you kill somebody there is a consequence."

Jerry Alley, whose parents were divorced, lived with his grandparents, who had adopted him.

Assistant State Attorney Garry Wood said he thought Silva would kill again if he were freed from prison. "John Silva is getting what he deserved," he said after sentence was passed.

Last week, a 14-year-old Miami boy, Lionel Tate, was ordered to serve the rest of his life in prison without parole for killing a 6-year-old girl his mother was babysitting. At his trial, defense attorneys argued that Tate accidentally killed Tiffany Eunick in July 1999 while imitating pro wrestling moves he had seen on television.

Public backlash over that life sentence led to Tate's speedy transfer from an adult prison to a maximum-security juvenile facility north of Lake Okeechobee, and to pressure for Gov. Jeb Bush to consider commuting his sentence. Amnesty International voiced concern about the case.

No such public campaign has come together over Silva's sentencing.

Only Silva's mother, Cynthia Silva, has asked that her son be sent to a juvenile facility, and Circuit Judge A.W. Nichols agreed to ask the state to do that.

"I still do not feel he did this crime," Silva said. "He is immature. He is book smart, but he is not street smart. He does not understand most of the process and what is going on."

Nichols denied motions for a new trial and for a judgment of acquittal. He also rejected Assistant Public Defender John Stephenson's argument that sentencing juveniles to life in prison without parole is unconstitutional.

Alley's grandfather, Marvin Alley, has been hospitalized with post-traumatic stress syndrome and is still having trouble dealing with the slaying.

"I've got such a hollow pit in my life," he said.

The Alley and Silva families, who embraced after the verdict last month, were not as warm Thursday.

"I have no animosity toward the Silva family," Anne Alley said. "Hatred and animosity are wasted emotions."

Jurors in the trials of both Tate and Silva had the option of considering second-degree murder or manslaughter convictions.
 

SmoothOperator

Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that ther
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
5,591
Reaction score
57
Thank you. I'm glad that you're starting back at the beginning. I just caught something else that he said ,"somebody stole my child out of my bed." Yet since that interview he and MC have stated several times that Haleigh was on a mattress on the floor in their room. I believe from his understanding at the time was that Haleigh was in fact in HIS BED when she was taken and not on the mattress on the floor. That's out of his own mouth. So, why did they change the story of where Haleigh slept that night. Another thing that has plagued me from the beginning is where were the box springs for the beds? Also, were they sleeping on mattresses on the floor or were they sleeping on the boxed springs? and if they were sleeping on the boxed springs where were the mattresses and did anyone with LE check that angle out? Could something happened to Haleigh on the bed and they got rid of the mattress because they held DNA evidence? If that were the case then wouldn't have RC questioned where the rest of the beds were...unless he already knew the answer. :waitasec:

Above highlighted in Dark Red by me... This to me just shows how ppl can look, read, hear the exact same thing yet come away with completely opposite views/opinions of it.. Because where above its seen as Ron and Misty changing the story of where Haleigh slept that nite and questioning why they would change such...

Where as I came away with this being something that would mean that Ron was NOT aware of where exactly Haleigh was sleeping that night..rather only relying on what/where Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was sleeping at...and at this time{back in the very beginning}Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was in "their" bed{as in the "big bed" that her and Ron slept in}...therefor you have Ron making the statement"someone stole her from MY bed" because this was originally what he was told by Misty..Him saying such at this point of the case IS CONSISTENT with him relying upon Misty's "acct of who/what/when/where/how..any/all details of that night" for the simple fact that he was NOT PRESENT in the mh..

Its then questioned above why did "THEY" change their story about where Haleigh was sleeping that night... It would be Misty that changed this particular aspect along with MANY, MANY, MANY MORE CHANGES, VARIATIONS, AND IMO BASICALLY JUST BOLD FACED LIES ABOUT THE HAPPENINGS THAT NIGHT..

ABOVE highlighted in Green by me.. The question about the mattresses/box springs.. It was mattresses that they were sleeping on and each of those mattresses did NOT have box springs..
I just wanted to put "out there" FWIW having "just" mattresses ALONE withOUT the box springs is NOT AN UNUSUAL THING..I would say this is especially so in dealing with lower income homes..{my grandmother for MANY years worked in Social Work} so the info comes from her and another relative that has worked in Social Work in even more recent years...They both have stated that in lower income housing as well as lower income mobile home parks that all beds in these homes MORE OFTEN THAN NOT have "stand alone" mattresses{meaning not even on the metal bed frames} and without box springs... So, what we have been shown of the "beds" that were in that MH they are nothing unusual, nor out of the norm. Therefor nothing suspicious about the stand alone mattress beds..
 

Baznme

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
4,335
Reaction score
8
Above highlighted in Dark Red by me... This to me just shows how ppl can look, read, hear the exact same thing yet come away with completely opposite views/opinions of it.. Because where above its seen as Ron and Misty changing the story of where Haleigh slept that nite and questioning why they would change such...

Where as I came away with this being something that would mean that Ron was NOT aware of where exactly Haleigh was sleeping that night..rather only relying on what/where Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was sleeping at...and at this time{back in the very beginning}Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was in "their" bed{as in the "big bed" that her and Ron slept in}...therefor you have Ron making the statement"someone stole her from MY bed" because this was originally what he was told by Misty..Him saying such at this point of the case IS CONSISTENT with him relying upon Misty's "acct of who/what/when/where/how..any/all details of that night" for the simple fact that he was NOT PRESENT in the mh..Its then questioned above why did "THEY" change their story about where Haleigh was sleeping that night... It would be Misty that changed this particular aspect along with MANY, MANY, MANY MORE CHANGES, VARIATIONS, AND IMO BASICALLY JUST BOLD FACED LIES ABOUT THE HAPPENINGS THAT NIGHT..

ABOVE highlighted in Green by me.. The question about the mattresses/box springs.. It was mattresses that they were sleeping on and each of those mattresses did NOT have box springs..
I just wanted to put "out there" FWIW having "just" mattresses ALONE withOUT the box springs is NOT AN UNUSUAL THING..(snipped for space) by Baznme..

and this is a "fact" because why? The word "fact" is taken very seriously here and IMO unless we have that in writing from LE that he wasn't there, this is just another theory, not "fact".

When you put two liars in the same room, it's very difficult to come up with anything that resembles the truth.
 

suspicious1

Active Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
3,762
Reaction score
20
and this is a "fact" because why? The word "fact" is taken very seriously here and IMO unless we have that in writing from LE that he wasn't there, this is just another theory, not "fact".

When you put two liars in the same room, it's very difficult to come up with anything that resembles the truth.

bbm

I absolutely agree with you, Baz. This is all my opinion but...

Ron and Misty were a dangerous combination. IMO, they complimented each other in the wrong ways. The Cummings praised Misty to no end. There has been a lot of lies surrounding this case...a lot of "mis-truths" that have been damaging to this case...IMO, it seems like almost everyone involved has lied or withheld information at some time during this investigation...not just one...not just two...not just the Croslins...but everyone...the Cummings included.. I have been keeping up with this case from day one and I have to admit..there were things related to the Sheffields that didn't sit too well with me either...but that's just my opinion.

Think about all the liars in this case...Think about all the people who very much may know "something" about why Haleigh is no longer with us. And these people choose not to help...It's like their own little "secret society". Regardless of WHO is responsible for whatever happened to Haleigh...The fact of the matter is these people chose to lie, withhold the truth, and make things appear "different" to those on the outside looking in (LE, DCF, WS sleuthers). For whatever reason. And to think about people showing such behavior surrounding the death of a child, blows my mind....What is so important to hide...that it trumps helping the investigation of a missing/deceased child? I got nothing.

JMO of course
 

Justin Tyme

New Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
871
Reaction score
1
Above highlighted in Dark Red by me... This to me just shows how ppl can look, read, hear the exact same thing yet come away with completely opposite views/opinions of it.. Because where above its seen as Ron and Misty changing the story of where Haleigh slept that nite and questioning why they would change such...

Where as I came away with this being something that would mean that Ron was NOT aware of where exactly Haleigh was sleeping that night..rather only relying on what/where Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was sleeping at...and at this time{back in the very beginning}Misty was "telling" that Haleigh was in "their" bed{as in the "big bed" that her and Ron slept in}...therefor you have Ron making the statement"someone stole her from MY bed" because this was originally what he was told by Misty..Him saying such at this point of the case IS CONSISTENT with him relying upon Misty's "acct of who/what/when/where/how..any/all details of that night" for the simple fact that he was NOT PRESENT in the mh..

Its then questioned above why did "THEY" change their story about where Haleigh was sleeping that night... It would be Misty that changed this particular aspect along with MANY, MANY, MANY MORE CHANGES, VARIATIONS, AND IMO BASICALLY JUST BOLD FACED LIES ABOUT THE HAPPENINGS THAT NIGHT..

ABOVE highlighted in Green by me.. The question about the mattresses/box springs.. It was mattresses that they were sleeping on and each of those mattresses did NOT have box springs..
I just wanted to put "out there" FWIW having "just" mattresses ALONE withOUT the box springs is NOT AN UNUSUAL THING..I would say this is especially so in dealing with lower income homes..{my grandmother for MANY years worked in Social Work} so the info comes from her and another relative that has worked in Social Work in even more recent years...They both have stated that in lower income housing as well as lower income mobile home parks that all beds in these homes MORE OFTEN THAN NOT have "stand alone" mattresses{meaning not even on the metal bed frames} and without box springs... So, what we have been shown of the "beds" that were in that MH they are nothing unusual, nor out of the norm. Therefor nothing suspicious about the stand alone mattress beds..

Thank you for your thoughts. If you go back to the beginning TN stated early on the she thought that Haleigh may have just been hiding under a bed. If she had been in the home several times/ being the Grandma and all, then she must have seen full beds that were off the floor, not just mattresses on the floor. Surely she didn't think that Haleigh was hiding under a mattress on the floor. So, you see why I question as to where the rest of the beds went? :waitasec:

And as to RC being lead by the things that MC said in the beginning...that's up to the individual too. As I seen it, it was RC who was making MC correct the things that she stated. Not the other way around. Example: MC states, she was 4 inches away. RC shakes he and says, no. MC looks puzzled and questions, NO? RC corrects her with she was 4 feet away. How would he know if he was at werk?
 

Beatrice

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
3
Was Ronald receiving $$$ financial compensation as the single father of 2 children?
 

Crosby87

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
254
While Teresa Neves is explaining to NG who was at Ron's in the evening and why her mother made a trip there, Ron blurts out &#8220;my cousin went in there&#8221; which was news to me.

<snipped> http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

GRACE: Let`s go to the source and find out. To Marlaina Schiavo, joining us from Satsuma.

Marlaina, who was in the home that evening?

SCHIAVO: Misty was in the home with the two children that evening, Nancy.

GRACE: Had there been visitors prior to that?

SCHIAVO: She had a cousin visiting from out of town earlier. And so he was in the home at some point, but we`re still trying to figure out exactly how that`s all pieced together, Nancy.

GRACE: To Teresa Neves, Haleigh`s grandmother. Miss Neves, are you aware of anyone else in the home that evening? I don`t mean when they all go to bed, I mean earlier that evening.

NEVES: I heard there was a repairman there. My mother was actually over.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. There was a repairman there. The cousin was there who police have investigated.

NEVES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Who else?

NEVES: My mother came by that night.

GRACE: For what reason?

CUMMINGS: My cousin went in there.

NEVES: She brought some clean clothes over.

GRACE: OK.

NEVES: She had some of the kid`s clothes at her house and she had washed them and brought them over. That was sometime between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m. that night.
 

Baznme

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
4,335
Reaction score
8
bbm

I absolutely agree with you, Baz. This is all my opinion but...

Ron and Misty were a dangerous combination. IMO, they complimented each other in the wrong ways. The Cummings praised Misty to no end. There has been a lot of lies surrounding this case...a lot of "mis-truths" that have been damaging to this case...IMO, it seems like almost everyone involved has lied or withheld information at some time during this investigation...not just one...not just two...not just the Croslins...but everyone...the Cummings included.. I have been keeping up with this case from day one and I have to admit..there were things related to the Sheffields that didn't sit too well with me either...but that's just my opinion.

Think about all the liars in this case...Think about all the people who very much may know "something" about why Haleigh is no longer with us. And these people choose not to help...It's like their own little "secret society". Regardless of WHO is responsible for whatever happened to Haleigh...The fact of the matter is these people chose to lie, withhold the truth, and make things appear "different" to those on the outside looking in (LE, DCF, WS sleuthers). For whatever reason. And to think about people showing such behavior surrounding the death of a child, blows my mind....What is so important to hide...that it trumps helping the investigation of a missing/deceased child? I got nothing.

JMO of course

The only thing that makes any sense is the same mindset as in the Anthony case. The family has lost one child and don't want to lose another. They will do what they have to do to salvage what is left of their family. Makes no sense to me as if this were either of my sons, they would pay the piper for what they have done. When you raise them with a conscience though, cases like these don't escalate into what we're seeing today. Bless all the missing children but especially those as victims of their own flesh and blood. JMO
 

Beatrice

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
3

Crosby87

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
254
There are 2 other bedrooms for the children. Why were they sleeping in Ronald/Misty's bedroom? Was there some sort of threat?

When Ron made this comment about kissing Junior in his bed before he went to sleep at night Ron, Misty & Jr were living with AS.

We don't know if FH lied when she said Misty slept with a handgun under her pillow when Ron worked the night shift. I can't imagine anyone would do that if there were children sleeping in the same bed or even the same room.

FH said Misty didn't have the gun Monday night yet when LE spoke with Ron early Tuesday morning at his place, Ron displayed the handgun to LE and this incident is included in the police report.

I am curious to know if Ron purposely removed the gun from Misty prior to the event on Monday evening.

Ron said he purposely changed the door locks at 202 Greene Lane to prevent this from happening. Ron's last comment to NG is off somehow.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html
<snipped>

CUMMINGS: But I do know that I personally went to Wal-Mart and bought the deadbolts and the locks that were on there so nobody else had a key to this house.

GRACE: OK, because I believe that he told me, the former owner, the reverend, that he had placed a lock on that back door but you also placed locks as well, correct? Got it.

CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, they were there. I took them off and put my own on.

CUMMINGS: I don`t want nobody to have keys in my house because I didn`t want this to happen.
 

Crosby87

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,539
Reaction score
254
Is anyone certain what the man Junior saw was wearing on their head and face?

IMO, LE should have used Junior&#8217;s information to create a composite of the person he saw in the bedroom. Junior can accurately and easily describe what the person was wearing on their head through visual aids shown to him by LE and a sketch artist.

If the abductor was wearing a ski mask over his face, chances are he would need to remove it after he left the home so there is a chance items of interest belonging to the perp might been found on the ground near HaLeigh's home.

Here is a positive response from a family who had a composite of the suspect released.

<snipped>

&#8220; Rothen's and Jackson-Foy's families said the release of the composite offers them hope for a solution and proves their cases are still a priority.&#8221;

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3074343/
 
Top