Gun Control Debate #4

[Blef]

Closing the gunshow loophole and selling privately w/o a background check, would also help. EK and DH purchased their Tech 9 from their employer! He had to know they were school kids.

I agree, and have suggested exactly this in the debate so far.

 

[human]

Thanks for the link! IMO, it reinforces that our health care system, including access to quality, needed mental health care, is woefully inadequate.

It also proves, imo, we need to do more to restrict access to lethal firepower. The article’s data reflects a similar recommendation.

One thing the article suggests is universal background checks.

HERE IS THE CONTEXT from that story:

“According to our research, only one-third of the people who have committed mass shootings in the U.S. since 1900 had sought or received mental health care prior to their attacks, which suggests that most shooters did not seek or receive care they may have needed.

“This treatment gap is underscored by evidence showing that the U.S. has higher rates of untreated serious mental illness than most other Western countries. Additional research shows that the gap is even larger for males, who have committed 99% of the country's mass public shootings.

“Although the link between mass shootings and mental illness has only recently gained widespread recognition, the correlation itself is longstanding. Indeed, we see it in some of the earliest such shootings in the U.S. Gilbert Twigg, who opened fire on a concert crowd in Winfield, Kan., in 1903, killing nine, had displayed signs of paranoia beforehand. Howard Unruh, who shot and killed 13 people in Camden, N.J., in 1949, was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. (Both were also Army veterans who had seen combat.)

“One of the primary reasons some are reluctant to establish the link between mass shootings and mental illness is a fear that it will lead to the stigmatization of such disorders. This concern is valid.

“The vast majority of people with mental disorders are not violent, after all.”

(snip)

“Conversely, some have insisted — wrongly, in our opinion — that mass public shootings are strictly a mental health problem rather than a gun problem. They, too, are on the wrong side of the evidence.

“It's possible for mass public shootings to be both a gun problem and a mental health problem.

“Increasing access to mental health care may reduce mass public shootings. But while such events are more commonplace than they should be, the reality may be that they're still too rare to develop and implement policies that reduce their incidence or severity specifically.

“Policymakers should therefore focus on strategies that have shown promise in reducing gun violence in general, like a federal universal background check.”

^^^^ THESE FOUR PARAGRAPHS ^^^^

Elley Mae’s post here contradicts the mental illness aspect, however.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

 

[human]

Again though, it's not just the mentally ill. And noticing weird behaviour and reporting it AFTER the event, won't prevent anything. Contolling access for those under 21 would be a far more important step, and obviously that is not happening.

The research that Elley Mae provided contradicts the idea that mental illness plays a major role

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

 

[Blef]

This article you posted says the exact opposite

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

Exactly, it's hard to back up an argument you are making when you post an article that disproves the point being made :laughing:

 

[human]

From Elley Mae's link - http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...-shootings-mental-illness-20180223-story.html

Actually, there is a clear link between mass shootings and mental illness

"Repeat after me: Mass shooters are not disproportionately mentally ill."
This is the opening line of a meme that's been circulating in the aftermath of the shooting in Parkland, Fla.
But this and other efforts to downplay the role of mental illness in mass shootings are simply misleading. There is a clear relationship between mental illness and mass public shootings.

One of the primary reasons some are reluctant to establish the link between mass shootings and mental illness is a fear that it will lead to the stigmatization of such disorders. This concern is valid. The vast majority of people with mental disorders are not violent, after all.

From ElleyMae’s other info she posted. Mental illness plays a tiny role

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

 

[Blef]

From ElleyMae’s other info she posted. Mental illness plays a tiny role

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

I think guns play a teensy weensy bigger part in gun violence.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

From ElleyMae’s other info she posted. Mental illness plays a tiny role

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

Mental illness plays a role in mass shootings.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think guns play a teensy weensy bigger part in gun violence.

Little bit.

 

[bluesneakers]

Mental illness plays a role in mass shootings.

From the link:

Mass shootings by people with serious mental illness represent less than 1% of all yearly gun-related homicides. In contrast, deaths by suicide using firearms account for the majority of yearly gun-related deaths.

Gun restriction laws focusing on people with mental illness perpetuate the myth that mental illness leads to violence, as well as the misperception that gun violence and mental illness are strongly linked. Stigma represents a major barrier to access and treatment of mental illness, which in turn increases the public health burden.

 

[Elley Mae]

The research that Elley Mae provided contradicts the idea that mental illness plays a major role

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

From that article.

Mass shootings by people with serious mental illness represent less than 1% of all yearly gun-related homicides. In contrast, deaths by suicide using firearms account for the majority of yearly gun-related deaths.


They compare mass shootings by (mentally ill) to yearly gun-related homicides.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

From the link:

I said mental illness plays a role in mass shootings. Obviously not most gun related deaths.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I'm not sure why there's a big focus on 'assault weapons'. Assault weapons are not the cause of most gun deaths and I would think only a small percentage.

 

[flourish]

What is the definition of "mentally ill" which is being used here? What's the definition of "serious mental illness?"

How many first responders have been diagnosed with depression or anxiety?

How many teachers?

How many gun owners?

How many of us?

 

[Jennifer17]

I'm not sure why there's a big focus on 'assault weapons'. Assault weapons are not the cause of most gun deaths and I would think only a small percentage.

Semi automatic weapons are the cause of most mass shootings, aren't they?

 

[rsd1200]

Here is what Elly’s research shows, however.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

My youngest, has worked with the mentally ill, in a lock down facility, and in other settings, the mentally challenged, for years now. She recently went back to working in the lock down facility. At first, her choice of working in the mental health hospital, worried me. She's not very big and they've got large guys in there with serious mental health issues. From what she's told me, it's extremely rare that they become violent toward the staff. If the staff does get injured, it's usually from restraining them, from hurting themselves. In all the years she's worked there she's only seen them use soft restraints, a couple times. If it seems someone is having a hard time, they will shadow them. If they're having a very bad day, they have a soft room they put them in, so they can calm down, safely, and they are monitored while in there (The soft room is used in extreme situations. Some folks are bent on self harm sometimes.). She's been pushed or pinched but she can handle them and she's barely 5'0 tall. They are also very clever. More clever than one would ever think.

 

[Elley Mae]

Murder
by State, Types of Weapons, 2016

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Semi automatic weapons are the cause of most mass shootings, aren't they?

Probably, but they only make up a small portion of all gun related deaths. When discussing gun control it seems to me there's a lot of discussion about assault weapons when they are only a small part of gun related deaths. imo

 

[Jennifer17]

Probably, but they only make up a small portion of all gun related deaths. When discussing gun control it seems to me there's a lot of discussion about assault weapons when they are only a small part of gun related deaths. imo

Well, wouldn't it be a start to regulate semi automatic weapons even if only to cut down on school shootings?

 

[bears10]

Got a 3 page letter today from the NRA today, basically begging “me” to join and to also fill out the survey they also sent along with the letter. I say “me” bc it’s obviously a mass mailing.

 

[Blef]

Well some folks can keep ignoring the academic research about how mentally ill people are more likely to be a victim of violence rather than a perpetrator, and that's fine. I'm sure these people know better than the lay-person. While it's definite that mental health help is not getting the money or attention that it should, that is another debate, separate from gun control.

At the end of the day there are so many things that can be done to make gun control tighter which would have an immediate impact. Changes in the treatment of the mentally ill is important, but it is a drop in the bucket here. Policy in general needs to change, across the board.