Gun Control Debate #5

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by Tricia, Feb 17, 2018.

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  1. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    In case you are wondering I have lost my mind.

    Rather than spend hours trying to remove posts in varies discussion that discuss the gun debate I thought I would give this a try just this once.

    The reason I have kept the gun control debate off Websleuths is that people will lose their minds. Sorry not trying to say I don't have faith in you. I am saying I don't have faith in some of you.

    All OF WEBSLEUTHS RULES APPLY.

    No name calling,
    No rudeness
    Mainstream media and respected journals, websites only. No crazy right or left wing sites.

    This is like any other topic on Websleuths.

    If someone could please make a post with the links to the demonstrations coming up that would be a good way to start.

    I will be watching this thread all through the evening.

    Full disclosure. In my opinion, it is obscene that we have automatic weapons available. period. However, I believe that Government will never have the courage to do the right thing and stop taking money from the NRA and start getting these weapons out of the hands of angry people. Therefore it is up to us to try and stop creating the kids who are so angry they feel killing is the only way. We keep waiting on the powers that be to do something and more and more innocents are killed. No more waiting. Let's pinpoint who these kids are and take them out of society, preferably via a mental health facility, and stop the carnage before one more AR-15 or any other assault rifle is picked up by the hands of a potential killer.

    Go for it.

    Tricia

    Thread #1
    Thread #2
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  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    You all have been posting some amazing thoughts and information.

    Most of you.

    Let's lay down some rules that should keep everything on track.

    1-NO DISCUSSION OF TRUMP OTHER THAN HOW HE IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE GUN CONTROL DEBATE
    This means no mention of how much he is hated or loved, anything to do with his tweeting unless it is gun control related.

    2-WE CAN ALL AGREE TRUMP HAD NOTES DURING THE MEETING. End of story. Yes, I know some of the notes were telling or maybe not. IT IS NOT IMPORTANT.
    Let's bring the discussion back to guns.

    3-PLEASE STOP WITH THE ACCUSATION THAT THESE KIDS ARE BASICALLY PUPPETS. They are kids. They will get help from adults and adults would be involved. They will get a lot of help from adults who agree with them. Don't know how you feel but I am so proud of these young people it brings tears to my eyes.

    4-PLEASE LET PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT OPINIONS EXPRESS THEM WITHOUT ATTACKING. I want to hear from the people who believe differently than I do. If someone posts an unpopular opinion, of course, you can challenge them but do it in a way where I don't have to remove your post and time you out. Please. Let every opinion be heard and discussed in a mature manner. As long as the opinions expressed are within our Terms of Service.

    OK. Be nice to each other and let the discussion begin.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  4. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Bumpity Bump
     
  5. flourish

    flourish Well-Known Member

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  6. flourish

    flourish Well-Known Member

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    Opinion piece:


    Giving women guns wouldn't prevent rape – it would land women in jail

    https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/dana-loesch-women-gun-reform-rapists
     
  7. kimlynn

    kimlynn Well-Known Member

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  8. kimlynn

    kimlynn Well-Known Member

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  9. rsd1200

    rsd1200 I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh

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    Tillicum shared this. Post #1005, Thread 4.

    Cole, who was shot by Ely Serna, a fellow student that a brought a shotgun hidden in a backpack inside their school, calls for a different demonstration to protest gun violence.

    "I invite all WL-S students, no matter your political views, to attend our memorial service for the Florida shooting victims. It will take place on Wednesday, March 14th, from 12:20-12:45 during lunch and homeroom. I feel that it is a good alternative to honor the victims of the shooting in a non-political way. I will not be participating in the Women's March walkout that day for the reasons mentioned in this video”, said Cole in a minute and a half video posted to his Facebook page.

    Video at link.

    http://www.whio.com/news/local/loga...walkout-demonstration/cg9QY05ZBQdLwRyTpbC1yK/

    I support the students', whether they make the choice, to walk-in, or walk-out. I did, however find this young man's point of view, moving, and wanted to bring it forward.
     
  10. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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  11. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    Marissa Alexander case

     
  12. flourish

    flourish Well-Known Member

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    From 2014


    How the NRA Degrades and Objectifies Women

    Assault rifles are like “hot women,” colleges are overreacting to sexual assault, and real moms sport kitchen aprons and feather dusters




    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/nra-women-sexism-guns/
     
  13. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I wonder when and why he decided to have the memorial at that time and on that day. If he had picked a different time and date no one would have to choose. I'm sure all the students who plan on walking out have attended (or would attend) memorials and vigils. It's strange to me he thinks it should be one or the other. The walkout has been planned for weeks.

    The earliest references I can find to him mentioning it are three days ago, so IMO he's making his own political statement.
     
  14. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Oh my word, how shocking, made me a bit emosh :cry:
     
  15. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    https://www.marieclaire.com/politic...ctim-father-fred-jaime-guttenberg-true-story/

    A darling loving girl who made friends with kids who have issues.

    America, why do you choose guns over children?

    ——————————

    Two weeks ago today, I was home getting some work done. My wife, who is a pediatric occupational therapist, was working right down the street from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. My son, a junior at Stoneman Douglas, called me in a panic to tell me that there was a shooting at the school and he was running. He couldn't reach his 14-year-old sister, Jaime. I told him, You keep running. Let me worry about your sister.

    He ran and eventually jumped the fence. He made it to the Walmart down the street, which is where I picked him up. We spent the next few hours trying to reach Jaime, trying to find her. We went to the hospitals. We went to the Marriott where they were keeping the students. Eventually, we found out that she was one of the victims. This could be anybody else's kid, and in 16 other cases it was. They all have their own stories to tell, but this is Jaime's.
     
  16. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    https://www.thriveglobal.com/storie...affection-shapes-a-child-s-happiness-for-life

    This could change people’s lives. Affect mental health,

    ————————-

    Next, a 2013 study from UCLA found that unconditional love and affection from a parent can make children emotionally happier and less anxious. This happens because their brain actually changes as a result of the affection. On the other hand, the negative impact of childhood abuse and lack of affection impacts children both mentally and physically. This can lead to all kinds of health and emotional problems throughout their lives. What’s really fascinating is that scientists think parental affection can actually protect individuals against the harmful effects of childhood stress.

    Then in 2015, a study out of the University of Notre Dame showed that children who receive affection from their parents were happier as adults. More than 600 adults were surveyed about how they were raised, including how much physical affection they had. The adults who reported receiving more affection in childhood displayed less depression and anxiety and were more compassionate overall. Those who reported less affection struggled with mental health, tended to be more upset in social situations, and were less able to relate to other people’s perspectives.
     
  17. EuTuCroquet?

    EuTuCroquet? Verified Stubborn Donkey

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    ESSAY

    I Used an Assault Rifle in the Army. I Don’t Think Civilians Should Own Them.

    From the essay:

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/...think-civilians-should-own-them.html?referer=

    I’ve taught college English for almost two years now, and for all the fulminating against the culture of political correctness, I’ve never seen language scrutinized like the language of armaments and gun control.

    There is a mechanical difference between the M-4 I carried in Afghanistan and a civilian assault rifle, but given the way we trained and shot (using semiautomatic mode), there is almost no distinction.

    When I look at a photo of myself in Afghanistan — on a combat mission in July 2009 — I find myself examining the gun. I could buy that rifle online, including all the accessories, with minimal difficulty.

    I can’t go back to Afghanistan, at least not now. I can’t be 25 again. I can’t recapture the fear or the wonderment or the grief — for a recently deceased friend — that I felt in that instant. But the weapon I carried could be mine again, with only slight variations. I could once again own a little part of that regrettable era.
     
  18. EuTuCroquet?

    EuTuCroquet? Verified Stubborn Donkey

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    In 2002, under GHW Bush, the Department of Defense issued the Army a directive. It restricted the use of firearms on bases to personnel performing law enforcement, security duties and in areas where “a reasonable expectation that life or Army assets would be jeopardized if firearms were not carried.”

    Even the DoD believed in protecting the very Americans with the most training and knowledge of the safety and dangers of these weapons from unnecessary gun violence.

    Imagine that! Seems sensible and responsible to me.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alarming-disarming/

    In 2016, Pentagon-issued guidelines were issued allowing certain other, approved military personnel the ability to carry personal firearms in limited situations.

    They also face potential liability for anything that happens with the firearm, can’t have current or pending discipline issues and cannot be under the influence of alcohol, etc. They also make st be 21 or older.

    Wow. Our military gets it. More guns means more safety measures — more accountability.

    All this [emoji116] sounds perfectly reasonable.

    Our lawmakers would do well to consider these facts as they speak of fortifying our schools and public spaces. IMO


    DoD Releases Plan to Allow Personnel to Carry Firearms on Base (2016 story)

    https://www.military.com/daily-news...plan-allow-personnel-carry-firearms-base.html

    Commanders, O-5 and above, "may grant permission to DoD personnel requesting to carry a privately owned firearm (concealed or open carry) on DoD property for a personal protection purpose not related to performance of an official duty or status," the document states.

    Applicants must be 21 years of age or older, the age many states require an individual to be to own a firearm, according to the document. Proof of compliance may include a concealed handgun license that is valid under federal, state, local or host-nation law where the DoD property is located.

    "Written permission will be valid for 90 days or as long as the DoD Component deems appropriate and will include information necessary to facilitate the carrying of the firearm on DoD property consistent with safety and security, such as the individual's name, duration of the permission to carry, type of firearm, etc.," according to the document.

    Until now, DoD personnel have not been authorized to carry personal firearms on military installations, a policy that has come under scrutiny in the wake of "active-shooter" attacks at U.S. military bases resulting in the deaths of service members.

    (snip)

    The directive states that personnel authorized to carry privately owned firearms must "acknowledge they may be personally liable for the injuries, death, and property damage proximately caused by negligence in connection with the possession or use of privately owned firearms that are not within the scope of their federal employment."

    The eligibility requirements also state that applicants should not be subject to past or pending disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or in any civilian criminal cases.

    Personnel carrying firearms "will not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance that would cause drowsiness or impair their judgment while carrying a firearm," the document states.
     
  19. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Hm. So super trained people are under rules. The well trained militia?
     
  20. EuTuCroquet?

    EuTuCroquet? Verified Stubborn Donkey

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    They’re U.S. citizens who have far more experience and knowledge of the weaponry than most civilians, that’s for sure.

    The Heller decision affirmed citizens’ right to firearms for protection.

    It also affirmed that the right isn’t unrestricted, and that federal, state and local governments have a right to restrict use or purchase to protect public safety.

    Military personnel can learn to use a weapon for situations like combat. It’s not an *unfettered* right to carry, own or use firearms however they please.

    With great power comes great responsibility.

    God bless our military. [emoji631][emoji631][emoji631]
     
  21. EuTuCroquet?

    EuTuCroquet? Verified Stubborn Donkey

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