Hailey Dunn: General Discussion thread #3

Discussion in 'Hailey Dunn' started by Salem, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    The demographic that follows stories like this is overwhelmingly female and over 40. If you want to know an approximate breakdown, there is a poll in the parking lot that shows the composition of WS. Approximately 92.5% is female, and 61.5% is female over 40. Females 25 or less comprise about 2.5% of the demographic. Most of the people posting on those sites are female, so they fit the demographic. So yes, middle aged to elderly female. Maybe you don't like it, but there it is.

    Another set of eyes won't help in HD's case, the physical evidence is gone or contaminated. The only other thing that could come up are witness accounts, and after 3 or 4 years those are not accurate. So, a re-examination is not going to substantially change anything. Even if they did decide to focus somewhere else after looking at everything, how will it help them? They are not going to find irrefutable physical evidence after all this time.

    You are welcome to sit on a jury with me. One thing I can assure you of though, is that emotion will not sway me in the slightest one way or another, the charges will have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt and for that proper and irrefutable evidence will be required. If there is an alternative explanation for a particular piece of evidence, it has to be considered, and if it is a reasonable alternative, it has to be accepted. It is up to the prosecutor to prove that there is only one explanation, and prove they MUST.

    Every other week we hear of this or that person who has had their conviction overturned because it has been proven that the prosecutor/LE engaged in malpractice, or DNA evidence proves that a circumstantial case was just that - circumstantial. Would you want to be one of those jurors and have that on your conscience, ruining someone's life for 10-20 years, just because you didn't like the look of the defendant, or because the prosecutor made you cry, or because someone needed to be punished and the guy in the dock would suffice? I would not. I would insist that the prosecutor PROVE that the guilty was guilty if they wanted me to make that kind of decision. IT IS A BIG DEAL. While the prosecutor might not have a conscience (and I was watching one on CNN the other night who clearly did not), I most certainly do.

    As for these cold cases, other than when DNA crops up to solve a cold case, they are almost entirely circumstantial and rely on decades old memories to get convictions. Those sorts of circumstantial cases are very unreliable. If you look at cases where exonerations are made years later, in almost all of those trials the conviction was made on circumstantial evidence, because a jury accepted a prosecutors argument without question or without giving the defendant the benefit of the doubt. And those exonerations are just a tiny tip of the iceberg, trust me there are many, many, more who rot in prison for the bulk of their lives on a false conviction. It is the worst thing that anyone can do to another human being.

    If you want to send someone to prison, you need to be certain, without any doubt, that they did it, and you need to be prepared to question and scrutinize every detail that is presented in evidence. If you can be swayed by an emotional argument and consider that adequate to convict someone, I guarantee that you will make a bad juror.
     


  2. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    I can't see why remains should ever be held for years...ME's can learn all they need from the body, keep samples of everything and release the body for burial within weeks, at least, I would think. I can't think of any possible valid reason to retain the actual body. At the outside chance of needing to review the remains at a later date, they could do an exhumation, but that is generally when the manner of death (homicide vs. suicide) is in question. This is bizarre, if TX still has not releases Hailey. JMO
     
  3. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you understand what circumstantial evidence is or it's value. Circumstantial evidence is equal to direct evidence in value.

    I also do not believe you understand the definition of "reasonable doubt"
    It is not beyond all doubt.

    A juror shouldn't park their common sense and logical deduction abilities at the door of the deliberation room.

    When a juror must contort, excuse or otherwise bend over backwards like a pretzel to excuse or dismiss evidence piece after piece they FAIL.

    What you've explained above is the very reason Casey Anthony is walking free today. IMO
    That's not justice, that's stupidity or deliberate blindness to common sense, logic and all reasonable conclusions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Well-Known Member

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    Really? You see no value in cold case units?

    They do amazing work. IMO


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Just throwing out a few reasons, not stating this as fact in Hailey's case.

    • Exhumation would not be possible if remains were cremated.

    • Release to a person who is actively connected to a POI could effect an open murder investigation.

    • Testing has not been completed.
     
  6. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Let me clarify- What I objected to was your derisive use of the phrase "a bunch of middle aged woman", to describe people who support Hailey. If you don't like angel wings transposed onto photographs of Hailey, fine. The intent behind that gesture was loving.

    You continue to state as fact, that evidence in Hailey's case is contaminated or gone. LE has not shared what evidence they have in Hailey's case. I see why you think this, but the truth is, we the public have no idea.

    I stand by my jury comment, Linda7NJ stated it perfectly in her response.

    We've been down this road before, and I don't want the thread shut down. So I'm going to quit responding. I just don't want someone unfamiliar with Hailey's case to pop in and see things which may mislead them as to the facts in this case.
     
  7. StacieC

    StacieC Verified insider - Hailey Dunn case

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    No offense taken, promise
    Scurry cty isn't returning any calls or hasn't been. I personally haven't called since last Friday. After that I called the TX Rangers and let them know they SC was diverting calls to them
    . What is their reasoning for not talking to Clint then? If we're going to put a questionable light over SC not returning Billie's calls, you have to ask why they aren't talking to Clint either. My opinion is STW and SC have not done anything in a year and aren't answering Hailey's parents because they don't want to admit their lack of investigating. I believe in both parents and their dedication to Hailey. I have no personal doubts in either of them pertaining to Hailey's murder. I know both and that is my opinion. I do find it very hanky that le does not talk to Hailey's parents.
     
  8. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Thank you StacieC.

    I just have a hard time believing LE (talking about all the agencies who are involved), are letting Hailey's case languish. I think the investigation is complicated, and it's simplistic to say they are just trying to save face and avoid public scrutiny, thereby not returning Billie and Clint's phone calls.

    I do respect your opinions and POV, I just believe there are different reasons behind the silence, and it's not for lack of investigating.
     
  9. StacieC

    StacieC Verified insider - Hailey Dunn case

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    Knox, agree to disagree and kind of still agree? :)
     
  10. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely :seeya:
     
  11. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Depending on what the forensic testing revealed, they may feel the need to preserve the remains so that when a trial does eventually happen, the defense can pay for their own independent testing.
     
  12. StacieC

    StacieC Verified insider - Hailey Dunn case

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    Never even thought of this possiblility. The thought that they could hold her indefinitely is the things parents have nightmares over on top of their nightmares. As a mom it's too much to process. Understandable from a legal point, if they were to come out and say that was why they were keeping her. If not it's as if Hailey is being murdered over and over again. There has to be closure at some point, right? Please do not tell me this baby will not have justice and literally be shelved, collecting dust, with no love surrounding her for years to come. It is a devastating thought and a Horrifying reality.
     
  13. amberjul

    amberjul New Member

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    Most Definitely. The suspect in this case is quite wily, as we all know.
    No one wants to risk implicating themselves, either (regardless of the fact that there is such a thing as a plea deal).

    By the Grace, Something of Hailey was found. That does not make her soul only partially rested. Those who keep her remains do so in the name of achieving Justice for her through the removal from society of parties responsible for her death. It cannot be done without her.

    We can always print a slew of these and plaster them all over the place though! One never knows.

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/hailey-dunn/view

    Bless Hailey, Heart and Soul.
     
  14. nannymo

    nannymo Well-Known Member

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    No sre-i have not heard anything about more searching. I was hoping the residents in that area were searching on their own. I think there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to convict at least one person. Maybe LE is looking for more evidence to convict more than one if that is the case? Who knows. I would rather see Hailey's remains stay where they are and prosecute and WIN a case in 5 years than to give up her remains just because Mommy wants them and NEVER convict anyone. Sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for Billie. Her ignoring LE and common sense for SA over Hailey to me is just inexcusable.

    I am hoping another good Samaritan will just be out wandering around this spring and come upon more evidence. I truly do think LE (who I don't know) cares deeply about this case and will not let it die. It may take years, but if that is what it takes, so be it if it proves who harmed this precious girl we have all come to love.

    I apologize ahead of time to those who think Billie is a great Mom. I really don't intend to be mean, just realistic with the facts.....JMO
     
  15. nannymo

    nannymo Well-Known Member

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    Good points!

    And don't forget....there really isn't a "body". Just a few bones I believe.
     
  16. PPKik

    PPKik New Member

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    This is an interesting question, but having followed this case early on, and having seen the non-stop screw ups by LE, I wonder how they could "know," but not be able to "prove." It's one thing to "know," lets say, something is going on with a family member, but not be able to "prove" anything. For example, an affair a spouse is having. You know it, but can't prove it.

    But in a murder case, and I just don't see how they could know that "so and so" did it, because if they did know that, wouldn't they be able to prove it? They would have evidence even to know. What evidence is there to prove a particular person did this horrible crime?

    The biggest problem that I see is they don't know, they assumed way too much early on and thought they had it in the bag. I saw them as incompetent to begin with and then lazy and arrogant. They made up the "child porn" to do their work for them. It obviously didn't work and it didn't exist, or there certainly would have been arrests, with the purportedly "over 108,000 images." So, I really don't think they know.

    When Hailey was found, they (LE) were so far behind the eight ball, no one even wanted take ownership of the case, as was confirmed at the end of last week.
     
  17. StacieC

    StacieC Verified insider - Hailey Dunn case

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    I am not sure if any of you have listened to the interviews from last week and this week. The most stressed points are they want an arrest, conviction and then Hailey home. I personally would not be okay waiting over 3 years for them to arrest someone. It's pathetic at best. There comes a time when you have to do SOMETHING. If this was your child would you be so patient? I have been overly impressed with Clint and Billie's patience. I can tell you me personally, I would have given up. I would just want what was left of my child with me. They are still calling and pushing for an arrest. They get credit for getting up and breathing each day, but they are still fighting for Hailey. God Bless them
    One of my closest friends daughter was murdered and I don't know how she does what she does everyday. She is a searcher and national advocate now. She has opened my eyes to the horror she and Billie live with as moms of murdered children. My friend is not like most of us. She's how I would hope to be, but could never be in her situation. She has been put through the ringer during Hailey's case as well. We love her for sticking through with us even though Billie haters have become Carrie MgGongle haters now. Sad. I'm grateful to Marc, Carrie and Brad for signing Hailey's petition to make something happen in Hailey's case.
     
  18. StacieC

    StacieC Verified insider - Hailey Dunn case

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    Agree 110%
    If you know you can prove it. If you only think you know, then you're just like the rest of us...clueless with opinions
     
  19. Suthrnqt

    Suthrnqt Verified Luddite

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    Well, for example, lets say I know certain info about this case. Unless I have a link to MSM or LE to prove this info is true, I cannot post that info here. :p

    I also want this thread to remain open.

    Also, the info LE has might be damning, for instance, maybe cell phone pings don't match statements made by a POI. While LE knows the POI had been deceitful, that does not prove murder and it surely won't get an indictment by the grand jury.

    I hope that explains what I meant in my previous post. ;)
     
  20. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    You are basing all of your statements above on, "what YOU know", correct? In other words, you are theorizing that LE has no evidence, created false evidence, botched the investigation, and are incompetent. I've said this before, I'll say it again. We do not know what evidence exists, the quantity or quality. What is safe to say is, there is no smoking gun. Obviously, there would have been an arrest three years, two months and twenty days ago, if that existed.

    I invite you to take a look at Holly Bobo's case. The man who is accused of kidnapping and murdering her, was arrested nearly three years after she disappeared. He was a POI, the entire time. In addition, LE maintained such a wall of silence, that the family hired a PI and many (like us) theorized that the case was cold and LE had botched the case.

    I may be off base, but until LE comes forward and publicly states they have exhausted all leads, and the case is not solvable. I'll not give up hope that Hailey's case can be solved.
     
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