Hailey Dunn: General Discussion thread #3

Discussion in 'Hailey Dunn' started by Salem, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    You bring up good points although one thing to consider is the "Blue Wall of Silence".

    Early in this case it stayed predominantly with local sheriffs departments from what I recall. I don't think larger LE agencies got involved for a very long time.

    The motel theory of other individuals was a possibility as there was some mystery individuals that never really got identified.

    The behavior of the main POIs was very bizzare. Too bizarre IMO.
     


  2. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    If HD had gone out that night with local kids, IMO, we would have eventually learned about it. KIds are notorious for spilling secrets. Kids talk. Secrets get out. People would have seen her if she had been out and about that night. I don't believe for a second that the local kids could have fooled the FBI about not being with or seeing her that night. JMO
     
  3. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    I cant get passed the behavior of the main POI.

    And one of the things about "Coveralls". Way too coincidental to me. Almost like a Michael Myers horror story since Halloween is coming up again I thought about those coveralls.

    Crud, and the "masks". Uggg.
     
  4. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know if there were any structures in the area where Hailey's body was found? By structure(s) I am looking for something that is shaped like like an obelisk; four sides that angle in, made of wood beams, about 30-40 feet tall that would often have electrical power lines attached. Almost looks like a forest ranger's lookout. Just curious.
     
  5. byo

    byo WS Liaison Staff Member WS Liason

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    My mistake.
     
  6. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    Wow! I thought she was found near the JBT lake.
     
  7. byo

    byo WS Liaison Staff Member WS Liason

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    You're right. :doh:

    According to nannymo's map, Hailey's remains were found approximately here.

    Here's a link to a google map so you can walk the yellow man.

    I don't see any wooden towers on the horizon.
     
  8. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Well-Known Member

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    The FBI was there pretty early ,I know they conducted the interviews of the trash man and of MaryBeth.
     
  9. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Well-Known Member

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    She was . The remains found at 2500 apron Drive belonged to a male. They were found the year before HD was found.
     
  10. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that. If it was something that would get them in serious trouble they would keep silent. If there were lots of kids involved I might agree with you, but the scenario I am proposing would only have a couple, three or four at most. In that sort of situation secrets stay secrets.

    And they would not need to fool the FBI because the FBI would not know about them since the sheriff was distracted by his hypothesis about SA. Initially they would have taken statements by kids at face value. For example, MB's mother was saying that her daughter never communicated with HD that day, but later on when the phones were analyzed it turned out that there was a text message. The mother was pretty negative about the level of parental supervision at the Dun residence, and said nothing about the text, and that is kind of important IMO. If MB's mother was being truthful in her statements to the media, it implies that she was not aware of the text, and that in turn implies that it was deleted from MB's phone by someone before anyone started asking questions. Enquiring minds might wonder why that would happen. I would guess that she knows more, but for whatever reason doesn't want to get involved. That is understandable I think, given the circumstances. IIRC, BD claimed in one of her later interviews that she had never been allowed to talk to MB. That is sort of odd, so I think there is something going on that we don't know about.

    The biggest coincidence in my mind was HD suddenly leaving the house soon after SA arrived unexpectedly back home. He was supposed to be working but showed up when he wasn't supposed to be there. Then HD immediately left. IMO she was expecting someone else that afternoon, someone her mother would not approve of, and when SA arrived home she had to get out in a hurry and intercept this person before they arrived. So she didn't take things she might normally carry on her person. And that secrecy is a big part of why we don't know much about what HD was up to that day. We have the story about the tracking dogs going first to the fathers house, then MBs, then supposedly around one of the local hotels. One of the witnesses who claimed to have seen HD that day saw her in the company of (MB?) and another unidentified teenage boy IIRC.

    So I think there are quite a few lines of evidence to suggest that HD had met up with a couple of local kids that evening.
     
  11. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    The Big Spring remains were different remains (an old man, IIRC) and had nothing to do with HD.
     
  12. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. This is a small town. Everyone knows everyone else's business. Kids know what other kids are doing. If HD was planning to meet up with MB and a boy, OTHER KIDS would know about it too. There was no reason to keep it a secret that afternoon.

    And the witness supposedly saw HD out walking in town with MB and another person. In a small town like that, other people would have seen her too, IMO.

    How do we know HD left as soon as SA returned home? We have only been told that by SA and no one else. Can't say that I believe him.

    As far as the phone calls and texts, the one text to MB---that is one of the reasons that I know HD did not meet up with her friends. Kids text each other a zillion times when they are making plans. Not ONE time.

    SA probably texted pretending to be HD.

    And YES, the FBI did interview MB and her mom. More than once. I am not sure why you say the FBI did not know about them. SA said right from the start that HD was heading to MB's house. How can you say the FBI did not know about them?
     
  13. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what they were planning to do. When I was a kid (and yes, I lived in small towns too) and planned to do something with other kids, no one would know about it except ourselves. On occasion we got up to mischief too, and trust me, to this day no one other than ourselves knows about it. There is some stuff you don't spread around. And we are not talking about a big party here, getting together with 2-3 other kids would not be common knowledge.

    Other people would have seen HD, MB and the boy, but that doesn't mean that they would have noticed them. Unless the kids were doing something to attract attention, most people would have forgotten in a few minutes, if even that long. While CC might be a small town, it is not so small that everyone knows each other well. Most people would have passed by a couple of kids and not given it even a first thought. Realistically the only sorts of people who might recall would be those who knew them personally. For example, if I'm driving along and I pass my boss's kids, or the neighbor's kids, walking along side the road I might notice them because I knew them on a name basis, but if it was someone else's kids I would not.

    We know HD left soon after SA got back home because SA had a earliest departure time from Big Spring (from his phone records), and HD had a known latest departure time (based on DD and friends testimony regarding when they arrived at the house). The time window HD had available to leave was about half an hour. In other words she left very soon after SA got back to the house in CC.

    There was one text to MB on the phone. There could well have been others that were deleted. There was no mention of texts on MB's phone, which must have existed. Texts are recorded on both phones, not just one.

    SA could not have texted pretending to be HD because that would have placed the phone in Big Spring, something that without question would have been mentioned in affidavits. So the text must have been sent in CC, while SA was in Big Spring. Therefore he could not have sent it. Also, there was an eyewitness account of HD being seen in her backyard using the phone at approximately the time the text was sent. There is no question in my mind that the text was sent by HD.

    The FBI may have interviewed MB, but if they would not have interviewed anyone else. To interview anyone else they first have to know who they are. If MB kept her mouth shut and denied knowing anything, they would have had to accept that and no further leads to other kids would have resulted. She was a minor at the time (but an adult now), so access would have been limited.
     
  14. nannymo

    nannymo Well-Known Member

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    BBM This scenario is only if you believe everything SA says. I personally do not believe anything that comes from him or BD myself. And the FBI can interview anyone. I don't believe any parent would deny access to their child if it meant finding Hailey. I personally will never believe anyone other than SA and possibly one other are responsible for HD's death. JMO

    Also, IIRC SA's phone was shut off for several hours so who is to say it was in Big Spring vs. Colorado City?
     
  15. Suthrnqt

    Suthrnqt Verified Luddite

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    I am in total agreement with you. If SA's lips were moving, he was lying, imo. [emoji230] [emoji230] [emoji230]
     
  16. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    The phone wasn't shut off, people here just assumed it was. Verizon only retained tower information at the time from phone calls, not from pings. The time periods reported in the affidavits are for phone calls made. It does not mean he turned his phone off. The justice department prepared a summary of the sorts of information retained by various cellular providers in 2010, so that would still have been the case when HD disappeared. You can read the document in this link. I think the problem is that people here got confused about the term "ping" used in the affidavit. They assumed it meant the routine pinging that phones do constantly, but if you read the affidavit it seems pretty clear to me that they are talking about phone calls. Verison retains tower data for phone calls (which technically is a ping as well, since you have to ping to make the connection in the first place), but not for the routine pings.

    Cell phone companies don't retain data for routine pings because it is a truly massive amount of data. If you think about it, your phone is pinging the tower a couple of times a minute. There are 1440 minutes in a day, and assuming each ping would require about 10 bytes to store the information, that would be ~14kB per phone day (assuming one ping per minute....it is more frequent than that however). Multiple that by the about 300 million or more devices in the country and you would need about 4500 tera bytes of storage a day. That is around 2000 hard drives worth (in 2010 standard hard drives would have been around 2TB) of storage. That is per day. In a year you would need at least ~800,000 hard drives just to store the annual ping data, and probably considerably more. The cost of doing all that would be on the order of half a billion dollars. Routine ping data is completely worthless to phone companies, so there is no way they are going to spend that sort of money to retain it for anything longer than 24 hours, if that even. It is just too expensive. The data they do keep is necessary for billing purposes, that is why they keep some data but not others. The exact type of data kept, and for how long it is kept, varies from one provider to the next, as detailed in the link I provided.

    As far as HD's departure time is concerned, there are multiple lines of evidence indicating that she was alive and well at home in CC that day. There are at least two eyewitness reports placing her at or around the house during the day, and there was the text message sent. At the time the affidavits were published they were still serving a warrant to get the information for the home cell phone. We don't know what is in those records, but I suspect that there is a whole lot more than a single text message. There is also the question of the earring which she was apparently wearing at her home the night before, but which was later found in her fathers house. It didn't get there by magic and it could only have gotten there the day she disappeared. SA was in BS until at least 2:40PM as shown by his phone records (and almost certainly by the testimony of other people at the house at BS). HD was not at home when DD got home at 4PM. SA says she was there when he got there. Allowing for the drive from BS to CC, that means the window for HD to have left was roughly 3:30PM to 4PM. She told SA she was going to MB's house. Tracker dogs later tracked her to MB's house, via her fathers house. Witnesses later observed her that night in MBs company.

    It is pretty obvious IMO, how much more do we need?

    Are we supposed to just ignore all of that simply because we don't like SA and want him to be guilty? Even though there is nothing linking him to what happened to her and plenty to suggest that something quite different probably happened?
     
  17. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure that witness that saw HD at home was a drug addict that was a questionable source.

    I am not convinced that she was home that day. I am not convinced that anyone ever saw her in town.

    I think there was some question whether the dogs actually tracked a scent to MB's. Others have said the handlers walked there looking for a scent because they knew that is where she was supposed to be headed.

    I do not believe that MB ever met up with HD that night. There was not enough texting or calling between them. And it did not matter who deleted what. LE would have the actual phone records and it would show if they had communicated or not.

    Very hard for me to believe that she went that entire day without texting or calling any friends. I have always wondered if she was drugged the night before or early that morning.
     
  18. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    The five year anniversary of Hailey's disappearance is coming up. Her remains were found and identified more than two years ago. One would think the case was close to being wrapped up.

    It frustrates Clint to think that his daughter's disappearace and death may not be any closer to being solved today than before.

    "The case has gone from law enforcement to law enforcement. Each time, they start all back over on the case and end up no where. Every time."

    A lot has changed in Colorado City in the last five years. The teddy bears and memorials that once stood, in hope of finding Hailey, have been taken down and are now stored inside a shed in the back yard of Hailey's house.

    The home itself is abandoned, declared unsafe and in danger of being torn down by the city.

    However, one thing hasn't changed. There is still an urgent cry and an insatiable thirst to find justice for hailey.

    "I'm just going to say it like this: we all know who did this," Clint said. "It's not fair that this type of person gets to go free after doing such a horrible thing to such an innocent person."


    http://www.newswest9.com/story/30387826/special-report-justice-for-hailey
     
  19. archenemy toenail

    archenemy toenail What happened to HaLeigh?

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    Were Hailey's remains ever released to her family?
     
  20. swedie

    swedie Well-Known Member

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