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Handwriting Experiment

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Jayelles, Oct 9, 2003.

  1. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I've spent the last few weeks taking part in a most fascinating experiment.

    Forever the cynic, I have always backed off from discussions about handwriting because I thought it was a voodoo science, however, I have been more or less convinced otherwise.

    I took part in an experiment where numerous people wrote the London Letter using both hands and they were submitted anonymously for comparison. The analyst then stunned us by matching the left and right samples.

    The analyst was also very accurate at saying which samples were done by a male and which were done by a female.

    The next part of the experiment is what is interesting me most though. There has been so much debate about the handwriting in the Ramsey ransom note and how it looks like Patsy's. Ergo, if it isn't Patsy's - could it be someone impersonating Paty's handwriting?

    I set out to see if I could impersonate someone else's handwriting and whether I could fool the analyst. Surprisingly, it is proving much more difficult than I could ever have imagined.

    I haven't quite managed to complete the forgery yet, but I am working on it steadily. I have been forced to research handwriting characteristics and to look for the characteristics in the person whose handwriting I am trying to forge - so that I may make a better forgery. It's really not easy. I am finding that there is a great deal of planning involved in doing it IF I want to succeed.

    I will keep ye posted.
     
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  2. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Why don't you print out that PDF file sample of Patsy's writing versus the ransom note, show it to the analyst and see what he/she thinks.

    That could be informative.
     
  3. Casshew

    Casshew Former Member

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    Jayelles.. I hope you never get ahold of my check book.

    :behindbar

    Cass...
     
  4. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    The analyst thinks Patsy wrote the note.
     
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  5. SisterSocks

    SisterSocks What a wild and crazy trip its been

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    Do you think Patsy wrote the note Jay?

    Socks
     
  6. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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    JonBhttp://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/enet Ramsey Ransom Note

    A key piece of evidence in solving this murder is the ransom note. The police as well as the Ramseys believe that whoever wrote the note is probably the killer. If the police can match the handwriting in the ransom note to a suspect's handwriting, the case is solved. The problem has been they have not found a match. Even without a positive match, the ransom note is still the key to solving this crime.

    FYI (read!)

    http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/06/01/ramseys/

    Mrs. Ramsey then said,

    "I totally agree that whoever wrote this ransom note killed our daughter."

    She then looked at Thomas and said,

    "How is it exactly that you think that I killed my daughter? I just cannot understand that."


    WHY WOULD A MOM ASK THE ABOVE QUESTION ,,, WHY OHH WHY EVEN GO THERE????????????????????????
     
  7. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    For someone to have forged Patsy's handwriting, that person would have to have studied Patsy's handwriting very meticulously to know that she didn't always form her letters in the same way. Whoever wrote the ransom note formed various letters in different ways--all of which matched the ways the same letters were formed in Patsy's exemplars.

    I am absolutely convinced Patsy wrote the ransom note, but I don't think she is the killer.
     
  8. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    A question for Jayelles.
    Were the samples in your experiment cursive handwriting or the print style used in the ransom note?
    If a person were clever ,deciding to choose perhaps three letters they felt were unique to the person they were trying to copy,and were fairly precise with these three letters,would it throw off the analysis?
    JMO IMO
     
  9. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I am interested in this issue, because someone I never suspected never considered, was so seriously considered by John and Patsy. I don't think it was "throwing friends under the bus",I really believe they are sincere.
    It seems, this person had something personal of Patsy's, a day planner, had the same jacket as she, said things along the line of "I'd rather eat glass than live in the oppulent style of .......(a friend of the Ramseys).
    To Jayelles or whoever I argued about the papoosing,it seems John had quite a few talks with Douglas,he described the crime scene and was given some instruction by Douglas,something about having a clue or an idea and fitting it into the box.
    Evidently John's description of the wrapping of his daughter,which a woman may call swaddling,between these two men was referred to as "papoosing". I know any woman on here,understands the newborn wrap,the blanket is layed down,the child put on,and the sides folded over neatly,usually it's three fold,foot section up,then side ,followed by other side.
    In our area papoosing is the term used when children have to be restrained,it's more of an effort to keep their feet and hands from hitting equipment during uncomfortable procedures that don't call for anesthetic. I was wrong in this case, as John did use the term,the one that I would call swaddling.

    This positioning indicated to the men,that someone who cared
    a bit about her after her death did choose to make her appear comfortable. This led the Ramseys to thinking it had to be someone close,someone who other than this horrible act,cared about Jonbenet. That is how it seems the housekeeper,santa,and Priscilla got on the list,not because they thought any of them were the killers,but because they thought these people cared about her.
    IMO JMO
     
  10. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

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    Good thread on an old subject Jayelles.

    I too watched the LKL debate between Thomas and the Ramseys.

    I was also shocked when Patsy asked Thomas, "When do you think I wrote the ransom note before or after I killed JonBenet..." and I believe she pointed to herself.

    Seemed like a subliminal confession to me.
     
  11. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    To whomever asked - I don't know if Patsy wrote the note because I'm not qualified to analyse handwriting. I would only recognise someone's handwriting if it were very distinctive.

    Now that I'm actually involved in a serious experiment with handwriting, I am discovering how hard it is to forge another person's handwriting so that it would fool a handwriting expert.

    The handwriting analyst who has been doing this experiment is a very scary person. He identified my sex and occupation from my handwriting. That scared the life out of me. There is so much that can be determined from a person's handwriting that never occured to me.

    The forgery is cursive which I think makes it harder. Someone (Sissi?) asked if focusing on perhaps 3 distinctive features would throw the expert off? The answer is no. That was actually a question I asked myself. There is way too much more involved in handwriting analysis and much of it is done unconsciously.

    Now I'm a slow thinker and pretty methodical in my approach to tasks and I'm studying and planning this carefully. I'm trying to put myself in the place of a person who really wanted to throw suspicion on Patsy Ramsey and how they would go about it.

    I think you guys will be interested in my method which I will reveal when the analyst has examined the forgeries.

    There are four stages to my forgery and I'm on stage three now. I think you'll be surprised at the approach :)
     
  12. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Thanks for your reply Jayelles. I am looking forward to your "report" on the forgery. It should be interesting!

    :)
     
  13. Casshew

    Casshew Former Member

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    Keep us posted :)

    Cass...
     
  14. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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    DITTO! I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR FIND...!!!
     
  15. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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  16. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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  17. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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    i "THINKS THE SAME THING-PATSY WROTE THE NOTE!"
     
  18. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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    and you'LL share w/us your 1ST instinct - description/reaspm as in info acquired/right???!!!
     
  19. ajt400

    ajt400 Guest

    What about the fact that on a scale of 1-5 (1=match; 5=excluded)
    Patsy scored a 4.5?

    I don't believe someone cold try to hide their handwriting and fool an expert. You would end up showing more of yourself than if you just wrote it naturally.
     
  20. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    Ajt 400 Ever heard of Urban legend? This is an Internet legend of the same ilk. Patsy scored 24 out of 26 letters as a match. (ST Book)

    Missing 2 and making that a 4.5 out of 5, or a long shot, is not possible no matter what you do with the numbers. 2 out of 26 cannot equal 4.5.

    However, 24 out of 26 can equal (24 divided by 26 = 92.3% and 92.3% of 5 = 4.6) 4.5 out of 5. Do the math. Someone has rearranged the numbers and tried to make them work to their advantage.

    Patsy scored 4.5 out of a possible 5, making her an extremely high probabilty for a match. And what's more she scores 5 out of 5, for a linguistic match. Therefore it is safe to conclude that Patsy wrote the ransom note. Hands down, no argument.

    That means that one of those Ramseys did the dirty deed BECAUSE mommy dearest would not write the note for a total stranger, now would she.

    Over time I have come to the conclusion that the only person an individual as self-centered as PR would protect, would be herself.
     

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