Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[zapped]

And with MH, there was "a wealth of" physical evidence. http://www.nbc12.com/story/11900299/discovery-of-morgan-harringtons-remains-brings-tips

That should make her easy to find....but it's not.

Even better.

If JLM is guilty of killing both HG and MH then the sheer volume of evidence against him might be enough to put him away for good.

I was referring to his conviction, not finding HG.

I hope they do...and soon..... but the longer this goes on the more I begin to lose heart.

****sorry for the tangent****

Now back to discussion of the search.

 

[FindHG]

Even better.

If JLM is guilty of killing both HG and MH then the sheer volume of evidence against him might be enough to put him away for good.

I was referring to his conviction, not finding HG.

I hope they do...and soon..... but the longer this goes on the more I begin to lose heart.

This thread is meant to be for the case:
The-Charges-Against-Jesse-Leroy-Matthew
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?257735-The-Charges-Against-Jesse-Leroy-Matthew

Thank you

 

[FindHG]

Perhaps, but that would be too close, plus he has connections with the school football program so that'd be really risky.

that too. You give great context to the paths he could've taken out of town. That's so welcome.

 

[FindHG]

First off, I'm amazed at how far HG walked that night. I'm mostly familiar with the western part of Cville, around the university. 14th and Wertland is where one of my old haunts is... A place called St. Maarten. I'm from Fairfax County and went to a college near Lynchburg (not Liberty!) so I would go down 29 which rubs through the NW part, turns into 250 and back to 29. But I digress. Bear with me here...

So I'm thinking that because she was so far from home, she was probably promised a ride. JM probably offered her one. His intentions probably determined where HG wound up, because of the way the main roads out of town are set up. If he was driving towards her house (or even his house, thinking he'd get lucky) he'd head west, so if he was in that area when something happened, he probably would've headed down 29 south and continued (going towards where MH was found) or he would go on 29 south then head west on 64 towards Waynesboro. Both very rural.

Before he went out, he coached at the Covenant School, so to end up at Tempo and those environs, he'd have come up from the south on 20. If he had bad intentions from the start, and he killed her early on (soon after she got in the car), he'd have to head back down 20 or 5th St South so he wouldn't be driving around town where the police probably had a decent sized presence.

If you look at a map, 29 south and 20 south run parallel for a bit and in between them is....his home town! There is also what looks like a quarry and a reservoir.

My money is on him heading west. I don't see the second scenario being that plausible. I think that he tries something on the girls and it spirals out of control. I don't see him doing it in the car, not a man of his size anyway. I think this is why MH ended up where she did. I think HG is west, down 29, farther than MH, maybe down around Wintergreen, or Walton's Mountain, or Schuyler.

JMO.

What's the most secluded among the three place you list, the place least likely to be visited that only has one way in?

 

[avhuebner]

What's the most secluded among the three place you list, the place least likely to be visited that only has one way in?

Schuyler. Wintergreen (in Nellysford) is a ski area, and Walton's Mountain is secluded but prob busier.

 

[Meemaw12]

Interesting read: Deja vu?

The Imperceptible Phenomenon of Black Sexual Serial Killers
By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/BlackSexSerKillers.htm

The Law Enforcement Perception

Investigatively speaking, the general public and possibly even some folks in law enforcement and criminal justice community are under the false perception that Black sexual serial killers are a rarity. The consequences of this mindset are that it makes it easier for Black serial murderers to go undetected for a longer period of time. In addition, an agency may find themselves the subject to a wrongful death investigation based upon law enforcement error in not linking a case to a Black serial killer in time which resulted in the death of an additional victim due to linkage blindness.

This resulted in linkage blindness (Geberth, 2006) (3) and a major embarrassment for the law enforcement authorities in the Timothy Wilson Spencer case in Virginia, George Waterfield Russell case in Washington State, and Derrick Todd Lee in Louisiana. The FBI profile in these three cases described the offenders as an UNSUB White Male 20 to 30 who resided in the area. Spencer, Russell and Lee were Black.

Furthermore, all of the victims in these cases were white females, which did not correspond with the theory that serial murderers killed their victims intra-racially (within the same race) as opposed to interracially. The following case histories illustrate this dilemma.
<sniped - read more>

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/04/holmberg...erial-killers-and-it-all-started-in-virginia/

This is an interesting read about Timothy Spencer

 

[avhuebner]

Schuyler. Wintergreen (in Nellysford) is a ski area, and Walton's Mountain is secluded but prob busier.

Actually, I think Walton's Mountain is pretty close to Schuyler... It's been a while. Yup. Just checked the map. I was thinking WM was on the other side of 29... Again...it's been a while.

 

[FindHG]

Actually, I think Walton's Mountain is pretty close to Schuyler... It's been a while. Yup. Just checked the map. I was thinking WM was on the other side of 29... Again...it's been a while.

Much appreciated, tough to guess where she may be without having context for the area.

 

[FindHG]

It seems possible that JM had his ducks knocked out of a row, that night. His usual MO may have had challenges he didn't expect. We can assume that he had a good plan for where to hide Hannah Graham. The possible scratch near his chin (Daily Beast: in court), along with the fact he had no alibi, and that he chose to run, may indicate that Hannah Graham had time to gain her senses enough to struggle. She maybe even ran farther than he had planned. His timing may have been off and his being was off when they saw him at work - he sat apart from people and sulked. So wherever he took her, he may have been stuck there for longer, to avoid detection.

 

[FindHG]

Katie Brook ABC13
Mark Eggerman wants info to follow-up, over 4000 tips
http://www.wset.com/story/26738445/aerial-images-from-hannah-graham-search-examined

Molly Greenberg VT About the search drones,
Each flight took around 30 minutes, with the aircraft flying at an approximately 300 feet.
http://inthecapital.streetwise.co/2014/10/08/virginia-tech-drone-used-to-find-hannah-graham/

 

[FindHG]

Yes. I listened.

Coy was there today when the search crews were taking off. He talked to a guy from the VA Dep. of Emergency Mgmt. They are the lead in assisting the search. They are engaged in a "Herculean effort". They will be out there until it gets "to dark to see". They are committed to find Hannah. Help the searchers by bringing meals. Restaurants are helping. Go online to Help Save the Next Girl.com (Harrington parents) to donate money or food - any way to help the searchers. Coy was emphatic about helping the searchers. Do something!!

JM's atty. Camblos is a friend of Coy's and he was with/spoke with Camblos today. The atty. met with JM today for 20 minutes. Camblos has some of the preliminary evidence (not all) for the hearing that will take place on Dec. 4th, and has met with JM a total of 7 to 8 times. Camblos has not received all of the evidence that has been collected, but will take receipt of the rest of that before the preliminary hearing/presentation of probable cause.

"In all likelihood we are headed" into a Grand Jury, and then a court case. "I'm guessing it is physical or forensic evidence" and it is "voluminous evidence from the car" "I have been told" "at least something established the fact that Hannah was in the car"

All sourced from insidecville.com podcast 10/8.

That, and (Camblos) part is the only part that hasn't been revealed anywhere else. HTH.

Thank you!

Nice that you emphasized how people may help the search effort.

 

[jamicat]

For a victim's forum I just cannot understand. The defense of this guy.

The most immediate important thing right now is this search for Hannah. It's going to be over soon, and without her, it may be an uphill battle to keep JM locked up. The other important thing about this case is for a danger perp to be locked up so he does harm others. JM is clearly a loose cannon, a danger to himself and others. Whether he killed Hannah or not, he's not giving up one bit of info to find her. he's hurting a lot of people in the time and resources this search is taking.

However, the reality is that unless there is a ton of very good evidence that LE has and isn't sharing with us, there isn't that great of a case against him. So what that Hannah got into his car? So what he isn't talking? Those things don't count much if anything in terms of the court verdict, and it's something all of us should have clear. These searches are highly emotional for all involved, even those of us sitting a distance away, and it's easy to get "Tunnel Vision" as Longo has warned and we think we have the case is clear, when maybe it isn't

So often entries are not so much of a defense of the guy, but clear rendition of the facts.

It's very difficult on an emotional level for me to understand, and I truly don't emotionally, as to how JM could just sit there and let people search for Hannah when he probably knows well where she is exactly. But a lot is at stake for him, and if he hid her, the very purpose was so that she would NOT be found, so why should he say a word? The reality is that he could walk on this case, as much as most of us would hate to see this, if the search is not successful. So of course he is not going to help. IMO, the best way to have gotten any info out of this guy would have been to appeal to his ego, and have sweet talked him in the beginning. If LE did not do this with someone very good, they lost their chance. Someone getting his car snatched in the middle of the night like that, is going to be very sore and suspicious of LE and not be cooperative, though by this time, would understand the immensity of all of this and help out with all info, if indeed innocent.

 

[Foxfire]

Katie Brook ABC13
Mark Eggerman wants info to follow-up, over 4000 tips
http://www.wset.com/story/26738445/aerial-images-from-hannah-graham-search-examined

Molly Greenberg VT About the search drones,
Each flight took around 30 minutes, with the aircraft flying at an approximately 300 feet.
http://inthecapital.streetwise.co/2014/10/08/virginia-tech-drone-used-to-find-hannah-graham/

<BBM for Focus>

Thanx for sharing, FindHG..
Seeing the Billboard of HG missing in the above <bolded> article and the enormous amount number of tips received by investigators in the past 26 days is reminiscent of a 1989 FL investigation of the missing Rogers family<Mother and two Daughters>. This was the first US case that billboards were utilized in a missing person/s investigation and due to the high number of tips, the significant tip, which was due to the billboard awareness, that ended up cracking the case was overlooked several times by task force investigators. Data Management and the prioritizing of tips is critical in missing/murdered persons investigations.

1998 &#8212; Feature Writing - Pulitzer Prize Winning
stpetetimes.jpg
http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/7892
Angels and Demons
Sunset - Chapter 1
By: Thomas French

One year had gone by since the murders, and then another, and now the investigators were deep into a third. They were working day and night, working weekends, putting off vacations, losing weight, gaining weight, growing pale and pasty and haggard, waking at 3 a.m. with a jolt and scratching notes on pads beside their beds. Their sergeant did not know if they would ever find the answer. As far as he was concerned, the case was not even in their hands.

Ultimately, he believed, it was up to God whether they made an arrest.

A born-again Christian, the sergeant carried a Bible in his briefcase. He had no doubt that both heaven and hell were real. He saw good and evil not as theoretical or philosophical concepts, but as absolute realities walking upright through the world. He believed in the forces of light and darkness. He believed in demonic possession. He took it as a matter of fact that Satan and his cohorts currently reigned over the Earth.

"I believe there are demons all around us," he would say, "just as I believe there are angels all around us."
<Sniped - Read More>
__________________

FBI Serial Murder Investigation Symposium 09/2005
Behavioral Analysis Unit-2
National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime
Critical Incident Response Group
Federal Bureau of Investigation

Data Management

A common problem in serial investigations occurs when data is not entered into the electronic database in a timely manner. Useful leads are lost when investigators are overloaded with information. The following suggestions were provided regarding data management issues:

&#8226; In order to avoid time lags, reports should be written as soon as the investigative lead is completed. If reports are not finished before the end of the investigator&#8217;s shift, the lead investigator(s) may not have time to review those reports. This will lead to a back-log of reports, containing pertinent and timely investigative information.

&#8226; Sufficient time should be allocated during work shifts to complete reports.

&#8226; Information should be obtained, documented, and distributed in a standardized manner, to maintain consistency among different agencies. Ideally, reports should be computer generated to ease the communication issues.

&#8226; Systems similar to the FBI&#8217;s Rapid Start computerized case management system should be utilized, to effectively organize and collate lead information. Computerized systems promote the analysis of a tremendous amount of data. There should be sufficient personnel committed to ensure that data is recorded into the system, in a timely manner.
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

 

[FindHG]

Good morning, jamicat

 

[thinksalot]

Is there an island in a river around the area? That would be secluded.

 

[SolVol]

The most immediate important thing right now is this search for Hannah. It's going to be over soon, and without her, it may be an uphill battle to keep JM locked up. The other important thing about this case is for a danger perp to be locked up so he does harm others. JM is clearly a loose cannon, a danger to himself and others. Whether he killed Hannah or not, he's not giving up one bit of info to find her. he's hurting a lot of people in the time and resources this search is taking.

However, the reality is that unless there is a ton of very good evidence that LE has and isn't sharing with us, there isn't that great of a case against him. So what that Hannah got into his car? So what he isn't talking? Those things don't count much if anything in terms of the court verdict, and it's something all of us should have clear. These searches are highly emotional for all involved, even those of us sitting a distance away, and it's easy to get "Tunnel Vision" as Longo has warned and we think we have the case is clear, when maybe it isn't

So often entries are not so much of a defense of the guy, but clear rendition of the facts.

It's very difficult on an emotional level for me to understand, and I truly don't emotionally, as to how JM could just sit there and let people search for Hannah when he probably knows well where she is exactly. But a lot is at stake for him, and if he hid her, the very purpose was so that she would NOT be found, so why should he say a word? The reality is that he could walk on this case, as much as most of us would hate to see this, if the search is not successful. So of course he is not going to help. IMO, the best way to have gotten any info out of this guy would have been to appeal to his ego, and have sweet talked him in the beginning. If LE did not do this with someone very good, they lost their chance. Someone getting his car snatched in the middle of the night like that, is going to be very sore and suspicious of LE and not be cooperative, though by this time, would understand the immensity of all of this and help out with all info, if indeed innocent.

Whether or not the search is fruitful
Whether or not Hannah Graham is found
Jesse Leroy Matthew is going to remain in jail for the rest of his natural born life.
He is tied to three rapes and one BRUTAL murder/rape.
His A$$ is fried...maybe even capital punishment.

 

[FindHG]

Data Management

A common problem in serial investigations occurs when data is not entered into the electronic database in a timely manner. Useful leads are lost when investigators are overloaded with information. The following suggestions were provided regarding data management issues:

&#8226; In order to avoid time lags, reports should be written as soon as the investigative lead is completed. If reports are not finished before the end of the investigator&#8217;s shift, the lead investigator(s) may not have time to review those reports. This will lead to a back-log of reports, containing pertinent and timely investigative information.

&#8226; Sufficient time should be allocated during work shifts to complete reports.

&#8226; Information should be obtained, documented, and distributed in a standardized manner, to maintain consistency among different agencies. Ideally, reports should be computer generated to ease the communication issues.

&#8226; Systems similar to the FBI&#8217;s Rapid Start computerized case management system should be utilized, to effectively organize and collate lead information. Computerized systems promote the analysis of a tremendous amount of data. There should be sufficient personnel committed to ensure that data is recorded into the system, in a timely manner.
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

Thank you. Very helpful.

 

[FindHG]

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

So getting those tickets may have been a way thumbing his nose at the authorities, a thrill for JM?

 

[Appalachiagirl]

Schuyler. Wintergreen (in Nellysford) is a ski area, and Walton's Mountain is secluded but prob busier.

And Schuyler has a quarry or two as well.

 

[FindHG]

Shared by Foxfire http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
Thnx too

"While most serial killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose of their victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing of the body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.

As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues, the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. This often causes the killers to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It is not that serial killers want to get caught; they feel that they can&#8217;t get caught."

there is no single identifiable cause or factor that leads to the development of a serial killer. Rather, there are a multitude of factors that contribute to their development. The most significant factor is the serial killer&#8217;s personal decision in choosing to pursue their crimes.

There is no generic template for a serial killer.

&#8226; Serial killers are driven by their own unique motives or reasons.

&#8226; Serial killers are not limited to any specific demographic group, such as their sex,
age, race, or religion.

&#8226; The majority of serial killers who are sexually motivated erotized violence during development. For them, violence and sexual gratification are inexplicably intertwined
in their psyche.

certain traits common to some serial murderers, including sensation seeking, a lack of remorse or guilt, impulsivity, the need for control, and predatory behavior. These traits and behaviors are consistent with the psychopathic personality disorder. Attendees felt it was very important for law enforcement and other professionals in the criminal justice system to understand psychopathy and its relationship to serial murder.

Psychopathy is a personality disorder manifested in people who use a mixture of charm, manipulation, intimidation, and occasionally violence to control others, in order to satisfy their own selfish needs.

traits include glibness, superficial charm, a grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, and the manipulation of others. The affective traits include a lack of remorse and/or guilt, shallow affect, a lack of empathy, and failure to accept responsibility. The lifestyle behaviors include stimulation-seeking behavior, impulsivity, irresponsibility, parasitic orientation, and a lack of realistic life goals. The anti-social behaviors include poor behavioral controls, early childhood behavior problems, juvenile delinquency, revocation of conditional release, and criminal versatility. The combination of these individual personality traits, interpersonal styles, and socially deviant lifestyles are the framework of psychopathy and can manifest themselves differently in individual psychopaths.

If violent offenders are psychopathic, they are able to assault, rape, and murder without concern for legal, moral, or social consequences. This allows them to do what they want, whenever they want.

Understanding psychopathy becomes particularly critical to law enforcement during a serial murder investigation and upon the arrest of a psychopathic serial killer. The crime scene behavior of psychopaths is likely to be distinct from other offenders. This distinct behavior can assist law enforcement in linking serial cases.

Motive generally may be difficult to determine in a serial murder investigation.

&#8226; A serial murderer may have multiple motives for committing his crimes.

&#8226; A serial murderer&#8217;s motives may evolve both within a single murder as well throughout the murder series.

&#8226; The classification of motivations should be limited to observable behavior at the crime scene.

&#8226; Even if a motive can be identified, it may not be helpful in identifying a serial murderer.

&#8226; Utilizing investigative resources to discern the motive instead of identifying the offender may derail the investigation.

&#8226; Investigators should not necessarily equate a serial murderer&#8217;s motivation with the level of injury.

&#8226; Regardless of the motive, serial murderers commit their crimes because they want to. The exception to this would be those few killers suffering from a severe mental illness.

To assist law enforcement in narrowing the pool of suspects, attendees at the Symposium suggested that broad, non-inclusive categories of motivations be utilized as guidelines for investigation. The following categories listed below represent general categories and are not intended to be a complete measure of serial offenders or their motivation:

&#8226;

Anger is a motivation in which an offender displays rage or hostility towards a certain subgroup of the population or with society as a whole.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

these sections stands out in relation to JM. great to know, right now.