Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[jamicat]

Can we go back to the LE statements that HG had texted friends that she was lost/disoriented, and asked if someone would come find her. I understand that her friends were probably partying and in a highly inebriated state, which would/could explain why no one went out to get her. But, what about the next day when they sobered up, and the next day? Don't you think someone would have figured out before Sunday afternoon that she had never gotten home? It sounded like at least one person knew she was in some kind of trouble, but never got back to her. I wonder why?

You would think so, wouldn't you? The problem is that a lot of these young people simply do not follow up on these things. They just figure, "oh, missed that call, that text", and maybe sent one back asking if all is well, but not really following up as they have other things on their minds. They just don't get that this is a possibility. And for good reason--a lot of them do disappear for while without telling each other. I've had a terrible time, as have many parents, with adult children who don't do the courtesy of telling anyone where they are going, when they will be back, and other such courtesies that are also safeguards in case something does happen. I'm amazed that in this case that Hannah's apartment mates got as concerned as they did and called in authorities after 36 yours. I would have guessed that they would have waited until she missed coming back after classes started. In the Lauren Spierer case, the reasons that the alarm was sounded so early was because of a boyfriend searching for her, finding her phone left at a bar, and the fact that she had a heart condition that required medication which she did not have with her, but was sitting right there in her room. I've known kids missing longer, and no one cared---thankfully they were just AWOL for whatever reason. Two kids I know who were dead, were not so discovered for nearly 24 hours which was when others attempted to rouse them--they were right on a sofa lying there and everyone thought they were sleeping off a rough night and let them be.

 

[brandalous]

I use an app to automatically back up all my texts (including photos received) to my email and my photos to Dropbox as I take them. I wonder if she took any photos that night?

It might have been on another thread (they're all running together right now for me), but the post about the anon messaging app made me think of the location app that alerts you to other signed-in users that are near you. I think that was one of the features that Facebook was looking at adding recently but the general public balked at.

 

[yupikgirl]

I have said this in other cases. I purchased a software called iPhone doctor for $60. With the password to the cloud you can get the last three backups. I was able to see full text messages from the beginning of time to the time of the back up. This is without the phone. Also pictures, contacts, Safari website data, texts from apps, etc. I am sure the fbi has some sort of access to this type of software if I can get it online for such a small amount of money. And the majority of these text messages were years old and deleted as well as current ones still on the phone and recently deleted. I'm headed to bed, but hopefully that makes sense. Of course if the phone is not set to auto back up to the cloud then the software is useless without the actual phone. No telling the last time her phone even backed up to the cloud before that night.


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[Steleheart]

I have said this in other cases. I purchased a software called iPhone doctor for $60. With the password to the cloud you can get the last three backups. I was able to see full text messages from the beginning of time to the time of the back up. This is without the phone. Also pictures, contacts, Safari website data, texts from apps, etc. I am sure the fbi has some sort of access to this type of software if I can get it online for such a small amount of money. And the majority of these text messages were years old and deleted as well as current ones still on the phone and recently deleted. I'm headed to bed, but hopefully that makes sense. Of course if the phone is not set to auto back up to the cloud then the software is useless without the actual phone. No telling the last time her phone even backed up to the cloud before that night.


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So the cloud is foggy to me - do you need a password for cloud back-up, account information? It seems to me not the same as the cell provider info and I wonder if the provider can access YOUR cloud data?

 

[jamicat]

I don't think most people do that with their every day phones--back up all info. I don't know anyone who does and I have a number of young adult kids ranging from Hannah's age to JM's, with all of their friends hanging around and all the cousins and relatives as well. Not a one and they are all tech savvy. I have one son who is very much into the business as his job and I don't think he has anything to back up all his phone entries. Not saying people don't, but I doubt if Hannah did. Unless LE is keeping very quiet about info they do have, it seems that Hannah's phone records are not useful at all in locating her or the phone itself.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Going back and reading previous information, and saw this. Is Market & 4th at the entrance of the Mall, or did she need to backtrack to enter?

Graham was known to be at the intersection of Market and 4th Street and traveled eastbound through the downtown mall between the 200 and 300 blocks.
Mooney describes the suspect as a black male wearing all white with dreadlocks. He was walking westbound but turned and travelled eastbound as Graham passed. He were then seen with his hands around Graham’s waist and were also seen entering Tempo restaurant on 5th street.
The two left within 15 minutes and the suspects car is on video leaving the area.
www.breezejmu.org/news/article_3c1d87ea-404a-11e4-b4df-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[sixecho]

Evie, this is very interesting. I followed HG's path to the Downtown mall using google street view. I originally thought she turned on Market and 4th because it seemed like a logical way to get to where we see her in the video footage. Then I saw this article that mentioned a witness seeing HG turn on 2nd street, passing Fellini's and not 4th like I thought. I immediately thought this made sense and thought she may have turned here because of the bar in Fellini's. I wondered if she tried to get into Fellini's. It seems that that would be the first bar she'd run into after walking all the way down Preston Ave from McGrady's.

http://www.commdiginews.com/news-2/hannah-graham-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-26756/

 

[Public_Hysteria]

Sixecho, Very good point re: no purse for the night. Smart girl. Which leads me to observe her other very smart choice for a Fri night, that is, sensible shoes, sneakers it appears to me, in her dorm/apt video. This tells me that she had prepared for an evening of walking.

Alot of young girls wear really unreasonable styles of shoe not fit for good balance after a night of partying.
But alas, they sure have the sexy look with heels, etc. Noted is the boot girl.at Tempo who removed them cuz feet sore
HG had light colored sneakers it appears, which JMO, most girls wouldnt choose for party night. This tells me that she was set for distance party hopping via foot.

JMO, but sneakers seem to be a popular shoe type now with the younger generation. They wouldn't be your regular joggers or anything like that, they're 'fancier' sneakers that are meant to be worn out. And considering the places she went - a party at an apartment, and the Irish pub - I don't think either really called for pretty or fancy looking shoes. I think Tempo wasn't a planned destination, and she only ended up there because she hadn't found what/who she was looking for at the pub.

I think as well, considering Hannah's height, she wouldn't necessarily be out wearing heels wherever she was going. I'm quite tall, and I would always avoid wearing heels at that age, because I was embarrassed at my height, and hated being so obviously taller than everyone else.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I don't think most people do that with their every day phones--back up all info. I don't know anyone who does and I have a number of young adult kids ranging from Hannah's age to JM's, with all of their friends hanging around and all the cousins and relatives as well. Not a one and they are all tech savvy. I have one son who is very much into the business as his job and I don't think he has anything to back up all his phone entries. Not saying people don't, but I doubt if Hannah did. Unless LE is keeping very quiet about info they do have, it seems that Hannah's phone records are not useful at all in locating her or the phone itself.

It is interesting that you don't know anyone who backs up. All of my daughter's friends have either lost their phone or had a phone crash and needed a replacement at least once, so nearly all of them sync to their respective clouds now, at least their photos, text and email messages. I would find it odd that anyone who has had a smartphone for more than two years would NOT sync their pictures and such, because it stinks when you lose it all. But by the same token, Spousey, who uses the phone for business only, recently started backing up, and only sporadically at that. I guess it depends on the person and how much that information on the phone means to them.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Sixecho, Very good point re: no purse for the night. Smart girl. Which leads me to observe her other very smart choice for a Fri night, that is, sensible shoes, sneakers it appears to me, in her dorm/apt video. This tells me that she had prepared for an evening of walking.

Alot of young girls wear really unreasonable styles of shoe not fit for good balance after a night of partying.
But alas, they sure have the sexy look with heels, etc. Noted is the boot girl.at Tempo who removed them cuz feet sore
HG had light colored sneakers it appears, which JMO, most girls wouldnt choose for party night. This tells me that she was set for distance party hopping via foot.

I agree she was set for walking, but that doesn't mean long distance walking to me. I remember also thinking that was a strange outfit to go out in, fancy top, casual shoes. (although the top made it easier to track her in the videos, IMO). She may also not have normally carried a purse at all. My daughter rarely does, and nearly always wears walkable type shoes, distance walking or no. She just likes to be comfortable. I do think that the reason she went so far is because she did have comfortable shoes. I don't think she would have covered nearly so much mileage if she had not worn them.

Does anyone know if it was normal for her to travel alone late like that?

 

[Tugela]

Why don't you think so, Tugela? If the time stamps from the mall were off, I think this may be a possible scenario. He could have taken her straight to his car where she could have been waiting for him to give her a ride home, or to take her to another party.

Unless he koshed her over the head immediately after she passed the last video camera and his car was right there, and then dashed into the bar to order his drinks, all in a few minutes, I don't think so.

The time stamps on the street video are not off since there were two independent cameras very close to each other showing her walking along the road, and the timestamps were within minutes of each other, consistent with someone walking along the street.

The video timestamps are correct.

The timestamps in the bar are correct as well, since there are two there too - one for the register (which would have its own clock) and one for the CC terminal (which would get its time from the CC company).

So, 3-4 minutes from walking down the street to order a drink in the bar. There literally is not enough time to do anything other than walk directly to the bar and order the drink, without any interruptions at all.

 

[yupikgirl]

I don't think most people do that with their every day phones--back up all info. I don't know anyone who does and I have a number of young adult kids ranging from Hannah's age to JM's, with all of their friends hanging around and all the cousins and relatives as well. Not a one and they are all tech savvy. I have one son who is very much into the business as his job and I don't think he has anything to back up all his phone entries. Not saying people don't, but I doubt if Hannah did. Unless LE is keeping very quiet about info they do have, it seems that Hannah's phone records are not useful at all in locating her or the phone itself.

It's automatic unless you turn it off. I did that once and that's why I bought the software. Won't do that again. I don't choose to backup my texts but if I back up to the cloud (and mine is set to on) then they get backed up. You can't access them from iCloud.com. I never even knew they were backed up until I bought this software. I bought it to get deleted pictures and got a whole lot more.

Edit: I'm speaking about iPhones and the cloud. When I go to iCloud.com and access what I've backed up I can't see all this, but I bight the software to recover stuff that was deleted. I not saying I bought this software so I could back up texts. I didn't even know you could recover texts, but you can. So I agree most people don't back up all their entries, but I probably wasn't clear because I didn't think she did back up all her entries. I was just saying they are recoverable if they have her iCloud password and if her phone did just a regular old iCloud back up recently (mine backs up over wifi).


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[yupikgirl]

So the cloud is foggy to me - do you need a password for cloud back-up, account information? It seems to me not the same as the cell provider info and I wonder if the provider can access YOUR cloud data?

Yes it's password protected. In my house we have 4 iPhones and 4 iPads. So we all have our own Apple ID for the cloud and iMessages specifically because we don't want to share contacts, photos, iMessages etc. Our Apple ID for the store is the same though so anything we purchase is shared.


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[yupikgirl]

It is interesting that you don't know anyone who backs up. All of my daughter's friends have either lost their phone or had a phone crash and needed a replacement at least once, so nearly all of them sync to their respective clouds now, at least their photos, text and email messages. I would find it odd that anyone who has had a smartphone for more than two years would NOT sync their pictures and such, because it stinks when you lose it all. But by the same token, Spousey, who uses the phone for business only, recently started backing up, and only sporadically at that. I guess it depends on the person and how much that information on the phone means to them.

I can tell you this. I am going through a divorce and my ex was able to see all my text messages, phone calls, Safari data, pictures, contacts, etc. with just my password. He couldn't see all that on iCloud.com, but he could with this software. So if someone hacks your password they can get a lot more than photos. One reason I have considered turning my iCloud back up off, but if not for that I agree completely. I've had to replace a phone and the iCloud backup made it seamless.


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[Evie Ivy Over]

Last night when I read that HG had been spotted at 4th & Market, my heart sank a little at the possibility that she may have run into JM in that area. His car was said to have been parked on 4th--I think it would fit the time that he had left Tempo. Could he have been headed to his car, saw her out on the street and possibly struck up a conversation with her waiting to cross the street, or whatever? They went their separate ways, for some reason she goes back to 2nd St. to enter the Mall, and he decides to go back in and find her? I wasn't convinced before that JM was a predator, but it's starting to look terribly bleak for him--and for any hope that HG will ever be found alive.

 

[MidgeC]

Going back and reading previous information, and saw this. Is Market & 4th at the entrance of the Mall, or did she need to backtrack to enter?

Graham was known to be at the intersection of Market and 4th Street and traveled eastbound through the downtown mall between the 200 and 300 blocks.
Mooney describes the suspect as a black male wearing all white with dreadlocks. He was walking westbound but turned and travelled eastbound as Graham passed. He were then seen with his hands around Graham’s waist and were also seen entering Tempo restaurant on 5th street.
The two left within 15 minutes and the suspects car is on video leaving the area.
www.breezejmu.org/news/article_3c1d87ea-404a-11e4-b4df-001a4bcf6878.html

I think that this writer has his directions backwards. At the western end of the mall (lower numbers) is the Omni Hotel. At the eastern end of the mall is City Hall, and an outdoor performance area. HG entered them all close to the Omni -- there are witnesses that place her on 2nd street (200 block). She then proceeded to walk eastward and exited on 5th street (500 block), which is where Tempo is.

Need to edit above: There is a large parking lot on Water St btwn 1st and 2nd St. I think the parking garage is between 3rd and 4th on Water. So it is possible that JM parked on 4th St to the north of the Mall. This would put his car on 4th probably somewhere around Market.

They say that JM was parked on 4th St. This could be on either on the north or south side of the Mall. My guess is that he parked in the large lot at 4th and Water (south side).

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I think that this writer has his directions backwards. At the western end of the mall (lower numbers) is the Omni Hotel. At the eastern end of the mall is City Hall, and an outdoor performance area. HG entered them all close to the Omni -- there are witnesses that place her on 2nd street (200 block). She then proceeded to walk eastward and exited on 5th street (500 block), which is where Tempo is.

They say that JM was parked on 4th St. This could be on either on the north or south side of the Mall. My guess is that he parked in the large lot at 4th and Water (south side).

What about the part where it says she "was known" to be at Market & 4th? There was no time notated for that sighting, though.

 

[MidgeC]

What about the part where it says she "was known" to be at Market & 4th? There was no time notated for that sighting, though.

I edited my post. If she was seen at 4th and Market, that could be on her way out of the mall with JM.

But she was earlier seen at 2nd and Market on her way into the Mall> That is where the restaurant called Fellini's is.

If JM's car was close to 4th and Market, they would have had to re-enter the Mall after Tempo to get to Market St. But they could have gone down 5th st headed north, in which case, neither the Tuel's or Sal's cameras would have picked them up (they are farther west).

 

[Enni]

Now I'm confused. From the video there was a guy that saw Hannah and then ducked in a doorway and then followed after she passed. Was JLM with her at that time? So now some are theorizing he could have been concerned instead of following her? Because if JLM was with her at that time, I could see how he may be concerned.

No, JLM was not yet with HS when the guy who initially spotted her started following Hannah, hiding in doorways, etc. on the surveillance video (this man was referred to early on as "white guy" / WG or "white man" / WM.) WG claims that he was acting out of concern for HG b/c she appeared to be in distress. He says he backed off when someone -- now confirmed to be JLM -- came up to Hannah and put his arm around her as if they knew one another.

The odd thing is that WG's supposed description of the man who came up to Hannah (per LE) matches the sketch of MH's killer (AA male, tall, heavy set, short hair with goatee) rather than JLM (with dreads.) Since WG saw whoever came up to Hannah, it seems strange that he would give a description of a bald/short haired guy rather than someone with mile-long dreads... It's all on the video, after all.

My guess is that LE may have done this deliberately to suggest a link bet. the two cases to JLM and play with his head a bit. LE assumed MH's perp likely would have altered his appearance after that crime due to the widely circulated sketch, and noticed strong similarities bet. the cases from the outset.

Here's a link to the early descriptions of the possible "person of interest" supposedly given by WG (despite LE having video of dread-locked JLM):

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines...cle_8c08d858-3dad-11e4-9089-3f06c0723e32.html

Detectives have been studying surveillance video showing the 18-year-old West Potomac High School graduate walking around downtown Charlottesville late Friday and early Saturday. Police have talked to one man seen in a video following Graham, who said he was concerned about her and wanted to see if she needed help. He told detectives that another man, whom he described as black, came up and put his arm around her.

That man, despite heavy news coverage, has not come forward.

He is described as black, 5 feet 10 to 5 feet 11 inches tall and 250 to 285 pounds, with a close shaved head, goatee and a slight "beer belly." He was described as being in his late 20s to early 30s and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt, police said in a news release.

As the search for Graham entered its fifth day, fears that something sinister happened to her intensified. Police said they are well aware of the similarities between Graham’s disappearance and the 2009 abduction and murder of 20-year-old Morgan Harrington, who vanished at a Metallica concert on the U.Va. campus.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I think that this writer has his directions backwards. At the western end of the mall (lower numbers) is the Omni Hotel. At the eastern end of the mall is City Hall, and an outdoor performance area. HG entered them all close to the Omni -- there are witnesses that place her on 2nd street (200 block). She then proceeded to walk eastward and exited on 5th street (500 block), which is where Tempo is.

Need to edit above: There is a large parking lot on Water St btwn 1st and 2nd St. I think the parking garage is between 3rd and 4th on Water. So it is possible that JM parked on 4th St to the north of the Mall. This would put his car on 4th probably somewhere around Market.

They say that JM was parked on 4th St. This could be on either on the north or south side of the Mall. My guess is that he parked in the large lot at 4th and Water (south side).

I think they would have just said he parked at the water st garage, then. You can park on 4th. Street parking is free after a certain time.
To make the mall even MORE confusing, there are actually TWO 2nd streets. That got me lost every time when I first moved here.