Happenings of December 26

Absolutely untrue UK. Just the other day I asked everyone's opinion about a possible alternate theory. I'm not 100% on any theory, DocG's or any other. I do however see the possibility that he very well could be right. He could be wrong. As I've said before, until I read his theory I'd have bet money that PR wrote the note. Now I'm not sure. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. At least my mind was open enough to consider another possibility. None of us know what happened. To assume we do is just plain foolish IMO. We all know what they say about assuming....

Nom de plume,
Absolutely, just consider all those qualified assumptions, they do not grow on trees.

DocG's theory works backwords from JonBenet being discovered in some deposit site.

I am not concernd with who wrote the RN, its fabricated forensic evidence, do you get that, i.e. it does not really matter. PR wrote it, JR wrote it, the Pope wrote it, BR wrote it, who cares, since nothing can be established.


DocG's theory might be correct but all the evidence seems contradictory, so keep on in there, if you reckon he is telling you the truth?


.
 
Nom de plume,
Absolutely, just consider all those qualified assumptions, they do not grow on trees.

DocG's theory works backwords from JonBenet being discovered in some deposit site.

I am not concernd with who wrote the RN, its fabricated forensic evidence, do you get that, i.e. it does not really matter. PR wrote it, JR wrote it, the Pope wrote it, BR wrote it, who cares, since nothing can be established.


DocG's theory might be correct but all the evidence seems contradictory, so keep on in there, if you reckon he is telling you the truth?


.

OMG! "What difference does it make?" Where have I heard that one? How can it possibly NOT matter who wrote the RN?!?! If that's the standard, what does it matter what anyone did?!?! I give up. Never mind.
 
OMG! "What difference does it make?" Where have I heard that one? How can it possibly NOT matter who wrote the RN?!?! If that's the standard, what does it matter what anyone did?!?! I give up. Never mind.


Excellent advice.


It's not possible to prove who wrote the RN, or who didn't - not w/o solving the case by some other means. It doesn't follow that the RN is unimportant.

For one thing, it very strongly suggests that someone was trying to stage a phoney kidnapping, which of course leads us to the very reasonable notion that it would have been more believable minus the body. Yet the body is there. Why?

It doesn't suggest, IMO, that it's a kidnapping gone bad.

Secondly, it's not an angry screed, ala the Unibomber. There are some statements that show some anger towards JR, but, IMO, not angry enough that it can be read as a revenge note.

And of course Doc has done a lot of work on his blog showing that PR may not be the author - something that underpins the beliefs of many who are PDI.

So the note is an important piece of evidence.
 
I went to check DocG's blog only recently,after I heard that his theory is JDI...don't agree with some parts of it but was glad to see that I wasn't the only one raising questions (that might sound crazy sometimes) about some particular things
 
midwest mama,
With all due respect mama its becoming quite complicated. You expect me to parse the above so I can appreciate DocG's theory?

Anyway I am sure you realize I am not as pedantic as some DocG enthusiasts. I accept some people would act on reception of some kind of written demand. Its just that predetermination is not guaranteed.


.

I agree with you that if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find, he should not have have full expectation that Patsy would read through the note completely and then seek him out for instructions about what to do next. But we are seeing that fault through the eyes of people who are open to regular reasoning capacities in human beings.

My take on JR, which is based on my perception of his military experience, his business background, his choice of wives, even his choice of vehicles for personal use, his management of married financial business, his statements in his writings about his ability to succeed again and again, his ability to quash his children's behavior without uttering a word - leads me to believe that he is more than confident that he is capable of leading ANYONE to think and do just as he directs. In every public appearance he's made, he presents personal power over the situation which confirms his actions or words. He never once, with regard to JB's death, appears to be weakened to a point of personal devastation.

I know I've said it plenty of times. But unless you can attach the word "narcissist" to JR and know how it effects his every breath, his expectation of having Patsy read the entire note cannot be understood. IMHO (which might not be the same as yours or anyone else's) if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find and apply compliance, that is the ONLY result his mind predicted as part of the plan.

He would not have even considered he could fail at engaging her attention, keeping it throughout the note, and expecting her to comply with the demands. The 911 call coming when it did was the fly in the ointment. If the kidnapping plan would have been executed, they should have been able to go and recover her dead body somewhere, (with police in tow by then) and have the same end result with services, etc. as they did, minus the skepticism by the public that they were the killers, at least at that point.

JR, not once prior to or since the death of JB has ever accepted a detriment in his life as placing him in a "loser" category. So much so, that he has even justified his personal child losses as being necessary to HIS faith walk so that HE could finally understand true salvation.
In other words, forget about what those losses did to so many others - as long as HE became a winner in the long run. :yuck:
 
I agree with you that if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find, he should not have have full expectation that Patsy would read through the note completely and then seek him out for instructions about what to do next. But we are seeing that fault through the eyes of people who are open to regular reasoning capacities in human beings.

My take on JR, which is based on my perception of his military experience, his business background, his choice of wives, even his choice of vehicles for personal use, his management of married financial business, his statements in his writings about his ability to succeed again and again, his ability to quash his children's behavior without uttering a word - leads me to believe that he is more than confident that he is capable of leading ANYONE to think and do just as he directs. In every public appearance he's made, he presents personal power over the situation which confirms his actions or words. He never once, with regard to JB's death, appears to be weakened to a point of personal devastation.

I know I've said it plenty of times. But unless you can attach the word "narcissist" to JR and know how it effects his every breath, his expectation of having Patsy read the entire note cannot be understood. IMHO (which might not be the same as yours or anyone else's) if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find and apply compliance, that is the ONLY result his mind predicted as part of the plan.

He would not have even considered he could fail at engaging her attention, keeping it throughout the note, and expecting her to comply with the demands. The 911 call coming when it did was the fly in the ointment. If the kidnapping plan would have been executed, they should have been able to go and recover her dead body somewhere, (with police in tow by then) and have the same end result with services, etc. as they did, minus the skepticism by the public that they were the killers, at least at that point.

JR, not once prior to or since the death of JB has ever accepted a detriment in his life as placing him in a "loser" category. So much so, that he has even justified his personal child losses as being necessary to HIS faith walk so that HE could finally understand true salvation.
In other words, forget about what those losses did to so many others - as long as HE became a winner in the long run. :yuck:


I'm not sure it's necessary to see him as a narcissist to explain the expectation that PR would read the note. (I'm not saying he isn't a narcissist, just that it isn't really a necessity in this narrow context)

It's not much of a stretch to think that someone would read the entire note. Or read far enough to know JB is gone, confirm that with a quick search, then read the rest of the note.

It's not necessary that he felt that his plan couldn't fail. He had to act. After 20 years in the Navy he understood that things might go wrong. None the less, one has to act.
 
I agree with you that if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find, he should not have have full expectation that Patsy would read through the note completely and then seek him out for instructions about what to do next. But we are seeing that fault through the eyes of people who are open to regular reasoning capacities in human beings.

My take on JR, which is based on my perception of his military experience, his business background, his choice of wives, even his choice of vehicles for personal use, his management of married financial business, his statements in his writings about his ability to succeed again and again, his ability to quash his children's behavior without uttering a word - leads me to believe that he is more than confident that he is capable of leading ANYONE to think and do just as he directs. In every public appearance he's made, he presents personal power over the situation which confirms his actions or words. He never once, with regard to JB's death, appears to be weakened to a point of personal devastation.

I know I've said it plenty of times. But unless you can attach the word "narcissist" to JR and know how it effects his every breath, his expectation of having Patsy read the entire note cannot be understood. IMHO (which might not be the same as yours or anyone else's) if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find and apply compliance, that is the ONLY result his mind predicted as part of the plan.

He would not have even considered he could fail at engaging her attention, keeping it throughout the note, and expecting her to comply with the demands. The 911 call coming when it did was the fly in the ointment. If the kidnapping plan would have been executed, they should have been able to go and recover her dead body somewhere, (with police in tow by then) and have the same end result with services, etc. as they did, minus the skepticism by the public that they were the killers, at least at that point.

JR, not once prior to or since the death of JB has ever accepted a detriment in his life as placing him in a "loser" category. So much so, that he has even justified his personal child losses as being necessary to HIS faith walk so that HE could finally understand true salvation.
In other words, forget about what those losses did to so many others - as long as HE became a winner in the long run. :yuck:

midwest mama,
I do agree. JR does seem to display what might be termed narcissist characteristics.

I'm just not sure how much these stem from the desire to promote himeself in front of the cameras, or as you suggest some kind of personality disorder.

I reckon JR's talk about god and related matters is a smokescreen. Its a way to project himself in public without having to answer JonBenet related questions.

If DocG's theory is correct and JR simply assumed Patsy would read the RN and not dial 911, thats some mistake after doing all the staging and getting your story right.

.
 
I'm not sure it's necessary to see him as a narcissist to explain the expectation that PR would read the note. (I'm not saying he isn't a narcissist, just that it isn't really a necessity in this narrow context)

It's not much of a stretch to think that someone would read the entire note. Or read far enough to know JB is gone, confirm that with a quick search, then read the rest of the note.

It's not necessary that he felt that his plan couldn't fail. He had to act. After 20 years in the Navy he understood that things might go wrong. None the less, one has to act.

JR didn't have a 20 year career in the Navy. Wiki has dates messed up in it's info about him. In DOI, pg 132, JR states: "After spending three years as a junior officer in the Navy, I returned to Michigan State to finish a master's degree in business administration (received in 1971).........By the time I got out of the Navy and finished my MBA, a lot of Vietnam vets were hitting the job market, and I really struggled to get my first position. I was hired by AT&T into their management development program, but was fired after a year when they concluded I didn't have the potential for middle management. (I've always wanted to go back and talk to the boss who fired me and compare resumes. I was proud of what I had achieved, even if a lot of it had been through luck.)"

I think the underlined above is called grudge-bearing.

JR would have been accepted into the Navy in 1966 as a JR Officer because of his first college degree in engineering, and I suspect also because he held a pilot's license. He was in Subic Bay from 1968-1969, and did have a framed photograph of that facility in his study (via report of former housekeeper) stamped with "Subic Bay Training Center". Just saying.............

In 1977 he worked for Acurex - a California company, selling data acquisition systems in the Southeast. Acurex asked him to move from Atlanta to CA, where the home office was. He was able to work it out with them to stay in Atlanta. The divorce from Cindy came in 1978, and he and Patsy were married in 1980.

IMO, he can be connected to some time spent in CA - for business meetings, etc. if nothing else, and, if so, could explain why he and Fleet found even more common ground as friends, since Fleet was also connected to CA in his younger years.
 
When would Patsy have told John this?:

LOU SMIT: That's 182. That's just a
5 photograph of a -- What is that photograph of?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It looks like the blanket
7 on the concrete floor. And that's quite possible.
8 It could have been the white blanket she was
9 wrapped in.
10 LOU SMIT: Where was that blanket on her
11 kept?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. Patsy said
13 that it came off her bed.
14 LOU SMIT: Is it something that was on
15 JonBenet's bed?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, according to Patsy,
17 yeah. That was the blanket that was on her bed.
18 No, I just can't tell what that is. I don't know.
19 LOU SMIT: That's on photograph 182?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.

Should we now forget about the possibility of the blanket coming out of the basement dryer to be used as a wrap for JB?
 
JR didn't have a 20 year career in the Navy. Wiki has dates messed up in it's info about him. In DOI, pg 132, JR states: "After spending three years as a junior officer in the Navy, I returned to Michigan State to finish a master's degree in business administration (received in 1971).........By the time I got out of the Navy and finished my MBA, a lot of Vietnam vets were hitting the job market, and I really struggled to get my first position. I was hired by AT&T into their management development program, but was fired after a year when they concluded I didn't have the potential for middle management. (I've always wanted to go back and talk to the boss who fired me and compare resumes. I was proud of what I had achieved, even if a lot of it had been through luck.)"

I think the underlined above is called grudge-bearing.

JR would have been accepted into the Navy in 1966 as a JR Officer because of his first college degree in engineering, and I suspect also because he held a pilot's license. He was in Subic Bay from 1968-1969, and did have a framed photograph of that facility in his study (via report of former housekeeper) stamped with "Subic Bay Training Center". Just saying.............

In 1977 he worked for Acurex - a California company, selling data acquisition systems in the Southeast. Acurex asked him to move from Atlanta to CA, where the home office was. He was able to work it out with them to stay in Atlanta. The divorce from Cindy came in 1978, and he and Patsy were married in 1980.

IMO, he can be connected to some time spent in CA - for business meetings, etc. if nothing else, and, if so, could explain why he and Fleet found even more common ground as friends, since Fleet was also connected to CA in his younger years.


Thank you. I had read that he retired from the Navy so I assumed a normal 20 or so year career. I guess that source is unreliable.

Unlike you I'm not willing to read his books, even though I would get some info from them.
 
Thank you. I had read that he retired from the Navy so I assumed a normal 20 or so year career. I guess that source is unreliable.

Unlike you I'm not willing to read his books, even though I would get some info from them.

There is a great deal of info to glean from both of the Ramsey books about them as people and their lifestyles. And also about the other people in their circle.

For instance, this is interesting:

"Patsy and I found Dr. Francesco Beuf to be a truly remarkable person. A brilliant man, Francesco's first career had been with the emerging U.S. space program. Our son Burke was fascinated with Dr Beuf and the pictures in his home from his early days designing and testing rockets. After successfully following this line of work, Dr. Beuf realized how much he loved children and humanity in general, and that desire took him to medical residency at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia."

The R's were on a first name basis with good Dr. B. They had been, as a family, guests in his home. And, it seems so peculiar to me that a scientist in the space program experiences such a deep desire to get into a specialty field of medicine - pediatrics.

I hem-hawed for quite a while before I decided to read the Ramsey books. I held my nose and took the plunge - when I emerged I realized that perhaps I had learned more about the depth of the crime.

Even with them putting their best foot forward, so much going on under the surface of that household, (and others in their loop) I believe. Some of the things that were revealed, about happenings at the Stines alone, were worth the read.
 
They had a ransom note and a body, but initially the body was not discovered, so whatever they did, and wherever JB was, it worked. Maybe they assumed the threats in the ransom note would force LE to keep their distance from the R house. This would explain why they seem to be ignoring the RN threats at the very start- they want LE to make that call or else they look suspicious. When it's apparent LE is not leaving (and more is on the way) the next less suspicious thing to do is find her (after moving her?) rather than have LE find her and ask how you couldn't find a dead child in your own house unless you knew where NOT to look.
 
They had a ransom note and a body, but initially the body was not discovered, so whatever they did, and wherever JB was, it worked. Maybe they assumed the threats in the ransom note would force LE to keep their distance from the R house. This would explain why they seem to be ignoring the RN threats at the very start- they want LE to make that call or else they look suspicious. When it's apparent LE is not leaving (and more is on the way) the next less suspicious thing to do is find her (after moving her?) rather than have LE find her and ask how you couldn't find a dead child in your own house unless you knew where NOT to look.


You're right, the body was not found initially. It took 7 hours.

The threats couldn't keep LE away from the house before LE was aware of the threats. PR called them to come to the house with no warnings about the threats in the RN. They were in the house, with a black and white (or maybe blue, or whatever color car BPD uses) outside before they ever read the threats.

It should have been anticipated that the cops would come with dogs, with detectives, that they'd call the FBI, that they'd tap the phones, etc., etc. IOWs there could have been no reasonable expectation that they'd come, stay 20 minutes -or even an hour and a half- then leave. There also could have been no reasonable expectation that the body would not be found. Basically to call the police is to hand them the body.

I agree with you that under the circumstances it made sense for JR to "find" the body. Otherwise, as you suggest, it looks like they were trying to hide the body.
 
There is a great deal of info to glean from both of the Ramsey books about them as people and their lifestyles. And also about the other people in their circle.

For instance, this is interesting:

"Patsy and I found Dr. Francesco Beuf to be a truly remarkable person. A brilliant man, Francesco's first career had been with the emerging U.S. space program. Our son Burke was fascinated with Dr Beuf and the pictures in his home from his early days designing and testing rockets. After successfully following this line of work, Dr. Beuf realized how much he loved children and humanity in general, and that desire took him to medical residency at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia."

The R's were on a first name basis with good Dr. B. They had been, as a family, guests in his home. And, it seems so peculiar to me that a scientist in the space program experiences such a deep desire to get into a specialty field of medicine - pediatrics.

I hem-hawed for quite a while before I decided to read the Ramsey books. I held my nose and took the plunge - when I emerged I realized that perhaps I had learned more about the depth of the crime.

Even with them putting their best foot forward, so much going on under the surface of that household, (and others in their loop) I believe. Some of the things that were revealed, about happenings at the Stines alone, were worth the read.


Maybe I could force myself to buy a used copy of their books. I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it. I'm sure you're right that it provides additional insight.
 
You're right, the body was not found initially. It took 7 hours.

The threats couldn't keep LE away from the house before LE was aware of the threats. PR called them to come to the house with no warnings about the threats in the RN. They were in the house, with a black and white (or maybe blue, or whatever color car BPD uses) outside before they ever read the threats.

It should have been anticipated that the cops would come with dogs, with detectives, that they'd call the FBI, that they'd tap the phones, etc., etc. IOWs there could have been no reasonable expectation that they'd come, stay 20 minutes -or even an hour and a half- then leave. There also could have been no reasonable expectation that the body would not be found. Basically to call the police is to hand them the body.

I agree with you that under the circumstances it made sense for JR to "find" the body. Otherwise, as you suggest, it looks like they were trying to hide the body.

In regards to the threats I was thinking the cops show up, read the note and say that they can't be seen there and need to watch from a distance. I wonder if this plays out in any of the movies the note is said to be inspired by?

The note says she will be beheaded, which was not part of the staging (thankfully!) which makes me think they weren't counting on JB ever being found. I also wonder why they did not try to write a ransom note from a child molester or some connection to the beauty pageants, when that would have made for a more believable scenario, and a wider range of suspects than Johns business. But then threats from those characters might not seem as serious as a foreign fraction?
 
In regards to the threats I was thinking the cops show up, read the note and say that they can't be seen there and need to watch from a distance. I wonder if this plays out in any of the movies the note is said to be inspired by?

If the threats are taken seriously, or they are pretending to take them seriously, then it's too late once the police show up, even if they turn around and leave. But again, there could be no reasonable expectation that they'd leave quickly, nor that the body would remain undiscovered.

My question is this - if PR is in on the cover-up, why didn't she tell the 911 operator not to send regular patrol cars and uniformed cops? She violated every instruction, (almost as if she had not read the RN completely) which might make sense if the body were not in the house, as it provides the "reason" why JB would turn up dead -sooner or later. But with the body in the basement, it's obvious she was killed before the 911 call, so her death can't be blamed on violating the instructions in the RN.


The note says she will be beheaded, which was not part of the staging (thankfully!) which makes me think they weren't counting on JB ever being found.
I'm not sure they could have counted on that (reasonably).

I also wonder why they did not try to write a ransom note from a child molester or some connection to the beauty pageants, when that would have made for a more believable scenario, and a wider range of suspects than Johns business. But then threats from those characters might not seem as serious as a foreign fraction?

Do you mean that it would still be a RN, but from a molester, and the plan would be to have the body found, then call it a kidnapping that morphed into a sex murder?

I don't know what the foreign faction stuff is supposed to accomplish.
 
Do you mean that it would still be a RN, but from a molester, and the plan would be to have the body found, then call it a kidnapping that morphed into a sex murder?

I don't think the plan was for her to be found. They must have been confident in how they had her hidden, and miscalculated how police handle kidnappings.
 
Maybe I could force myself to buy a used copy of their books. I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it. I'm sure you're right that it provides additional insight.


Know exactly how you feel - I had the same feeling! On top of that to think that a Ramsey would even glean :twocents: from my purchase made me even more angry.

I used Amazon for leads to used resellers and spent less than $3.00 total for both used books (plus shipping and handling). That way I realize the sale of those books probably helps keep a few people in jobs, rather than lining the Ramsey pockets.

Guarantee you will survive the reads - just keep plenty of 7up and crackers on hand (it's an old trick pregnant moms used for nausea) - because what you'll learn from the books may enhance your understanding of why this case is such a mess.
 
You're right, the body was not found initially. It took 7 hours.

The threats couldn't keep LE away from the house before LE was aware of the threats. PR called them to come to the house with no warnings about the threats in the RN. They were in the house, with a black and white (or maybe blue, or whatever color car BPD uses) outside before they ever read the threats.

It should have been anticipated that the cops would come with dogs, with detectives, that they'd call the FBI, that they'd tap the phones, etc., etc. IOWs there could have been no reasonable expectation that they'd come, stay 20 minutes -or even an hour and a half- then leave. There also could have been no reasonable expectation that the body would not be found. Basically to call the police is to hand them the body.

I agree with you that under the circumstances it made sense for JR to "find" the body. Otherwise, as you suggest, it looks like they were trying to hide the body.

Stellar. If I've seen this reasoning or heard this before, somehow it flew right by. No wonder JR was so fidgety after showing back up around noon.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But does this mean that even if French would have looked in that room instead of bypassing it, it still would have been thought they were trying to hide the body? I would think so?? Would police have thought the RN was even more bogus at that point, and arrested the R's right then and there??

I can't imagine why either of the R's, if they were both involved, would have wanted 911 called, given the chance the police would immediately find the body unless they wanted to be taken straight away for questioning. Unless, as InstantProof offered, they really thought they had her hidden well enough and miscalculated how BPD would handle kidnappings. Occam's razor!

But, maybe they thought the window situation in the train room would have looked enough like the SFF had made a last minute exit from the basement upon hearing the R's up and screaming around the house before they had enough time to take their dead child out with them??? But then, the SFF would have also had to be very quick in order to also take enough time to stash her in the deepest room of the house, turning the block latch as they left. Not Occam's Razor!

As an RDI scenario with a kidnapping plan, they had to wait on the 911 call being made until the ransom drop, (taking the body out of the house), and if they then were going to "pick up" JB, have police along as witnesses for that - when she would be found dead, garroted, for one of the reasons outlined in the note.

What is the most logical answer for Patsy making the 911 call, when the most logical outcome to that is that the police would find the body eventually in the house, which suggested the R's were trying to hide it, even if there was a RN, which then obviously would have been considered truly bogus, and should have led to an immediate arrest of them?

The Occam's Razor answer is: She believed the RN to indicate her daughter had been kidnapped (taken out of the house), was safe with the kidnappers (it says so in the very first few sentences) and after quickly confirming this for herself by checking to find her bed empty, she immediately panicked, screamed for her husband's help, left him to check on their other child, and ran for the most obvious source of help before reading far enough into the long note to take heed of the warnings.

Or, she was involved and short-circuited the plan, putting herself intentionally, in a position of innocence and left JR to become the most reasonable culprit. In order to succeed at doing that, she had to play the innocence card all the way through never once acting as if she would turn on JR, so he wouldn't give her up either. If they were in on it together, as long as they both stayed in it while events progressed as they did, they might be OK. But if, at any point that day, they faced arrest, she would have gone along until she had an opportunity to "convince" BPD she would never have called them unless she was innocent. Then she just had to say she called because she suspected her husband and had to be in a position of protection (arrested and sequestered away from JR) before she could disclose that to police.

However, once JR "found" the body instead, he as much as proved they weren't trying to hide it, especially he wasn't the one trying to hide it, so Patsy no longer had the opportunity to give him up, since from nearly that moment they were covered continuously by the attitude that they were "victims" and not perpetrators. Soon after came the doctors and lawyers, and the rest is history.

Have to hand it to JR, though. He did ask if his stiff bodied, blue-lipped child was dead as Arndt felt for a pulse. And he did say it had to be an "inside job". And he did hand over the note pads that the RN was written on declaring which was Patsy's and which was his. Maybe JR was thinking the same way as Patsy?? That if arrested, he would point directly at Patsy?

But, if they had been arrested that day, Patsy would have been more likely to be home free, could have been America's heroine and there to protect Burke. JR would have had to take the fall alone. If he would have tried to bring Patsy in, she had the trump card because she made the call, and why would she do that, unless she was innocent and had nothing to do with her daughter's death?

All above :moo:
 
I don't think the plan was for her to be found. They must have been confident in how they had her hidden, and miscalculated how police handle kidnappings.


I can see how they might miscalculate how the kidnap would be handled by police, since they wouldn't be familiar with police procedures. Still, I think they'd have to be able to anticipate some things, including things that didn't happen but probably should have - dogs.

So, I don't see how they could be confident that the had her well hidden. Assuming the body was actually in the WC the whole time, all that was required was turning a small block of wood and turning on a light.
 

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