Happenings of December 26

Chrishope

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Just a respectful reminder that "turning on a light" was more difficult than your statement suggests. Fleet White, iirc, stated he tried to turn on the light when he first went to the wine cellar and felt around in the dark trying to find the switch. He couldn't find it. The light switch was down low and set back on the wall in an awkward place that was totally dark. He stated he did not see the white blanket on that first trip and was somewhat at a loss when he returned with John Ramsey since John exclaimed that he saw the blanket and knew it was JonBenet before he (John) turned on the light.


That's true, I'd forgotten how difficult the switch was in the WC.
 

Chrishope

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They probably would have if the DA's office had allowed a normal investigation to progress instead of telling the officers to handle the Ramseys like victims and not suspects. Even Lou Smit said he would have taken them to the police station for questioning had he been on the case on Day One. Then we have the Ramsey lawyer group who stated (my paraphrasing) that the Ramseys were in no shape to be questioned on that day after JonBenet's body was found but they would be willing to be questioned after they'd had time to grieve and blah, blah, blah.

Even if LS had been on the case the Rs might well have refused to talk. The Rs seemed to know their rights from the start, and exercised them intelligently.
 

UKGuy

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Unfortunately, I agree with you that it’s a matter of interpretation, and very possibly that interpretation may be influenced by our predispositions.

That being said, as you point out, the extra voices are heard at the end of the call (actually though, after the call in the minds of those present). According to both PR and JR, they were both there but BR was not. We know though that that was a lie. If BR had walked in during the call, it seems to me that that is when he would have spoken up to ask what was going on, or that JR would have said something to him telling him to be quiet because they were on the phone. Instead, we have all three of them thinking the phone call was over and that it was then safe to talk. BR asks his question because he didn’t know anything about a ransom note that had been found, and JR doesn’t want to be bothered by him having to answer his questions. He just tells him to shut the heck up, while his mother is wailing for divine assistance.

Add to this the fact that the ruse was that JonBenet had been kidnapped by an intruder while they slept. Why would any parent (whose child had been taken from them) not want the only other person who slept on the same floor to be questioned by the police? How quickly after the phone call was made did they have to get BR into bed pretending to be asleep before the first officer arrived? And why?

otg,
Those latter questions are the ones thay make a DocG type theory infeasable. Because on the surface it appears BR awakens and stumbles upon a 911 call. So if PR is being duped by JR and BR is innocent why send BR back to bed, and why does PR not query this?

In fact why was BR not told some scaled down version of the kidnapping and told some policemen will be here shortly?

That that never happened tells you all three Ramsey's colluded, and more importantly that PR knowingly colluded with JR, because you can argue BR was not really involved?

.
 

UKGuy

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I agree with you that if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find, he should not have have full expectation that Patsy would read through the note completely and then seek him out for instructions about what to do next. But we are seeing that fault through the eyes of people who are open to regular reasoning capacities in human beings.

My take on JR, which is based on my perception of his military experience, his business background, his choice of wives, even his choice of vehicles for personal use, his management of married financial business, his statements in his writings about his ability to succeed again and again, his ability to quash his children's behavior without uttering a word - leads me to believe that he is more than confident that he is capable of leading ANYONE to think and do just as he directs. In every public appearance he's made, he presents personal power over the situation which confirms his actions or words. He never once, with regard to JB's death, appears to be weakened to a point of personal devastation.

I know I've said it plenty of times. But unless you can attach the word "narcissist" to JR and know how it effects his every breath, his expectation of having Patsy read the entire note cannot be understood. IMHO (which might not be the same as yours or anyone else's) if JR wrote the note and left it for Patsy to find and apply compliance, that is the ONLY result his mind predicted as part of the plan.

He would not have even considered he could fail at engaging her attention, keeping it throughout the note, and expecting her to comply with the demands. The 911 call coming when it did was the fly in the ointment. If the kidnapping plan would have been executed, they should have been able to go and recover her dead body somewhere, (with police in tow by then) and have the same end result with services, etc. as they did, minus the skepticism by the public that they were the killers, at least at that point.

JR, not once prior to or since the death of JB has ever accepted a detriment in his life as placing him in a "loser" category. So much so, that he has even justified his personal child losses as being necessary to HIS faith walk so that HE could finally understand true salvation.
In other words, forget about what those losses did to so many others - as long as HE became a winner in the long run. :yuck:

midwest mama,
Another curious aspect to this case is that despite being voted to be indicted the R's have never faced any other charges.

So I checked out some other cases for parallels, and of course there are none.

I found one case involving an alleged staged intruder homicide. Including the cleanup and redressing of the victim.

This is the case of lawyer Robert Wone. On a summer night in 2006, Wone, who had worked late in Washington, had asked to spend the night at the home of three friends, rather than commute to his family residence in Oakton, Va. The next day he was reported dead. The defense argument was that an intruder broke in during the night and stabbed Wone three times.

Now some of the forensic evidence in this case matches that of JonBenet's for its bizarreness.

To date, as far as I know, nobody has been convicted of Robert Wone's death.

But three men were charged with conspiracy, obstruction-of-justice and tampering-with-evidence charges. The jury returned not guilty verdicts on all charges.

So how come none of the Ramseys have ever faced any such charges?


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Nom de plume

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Those latter questions are the ones thay make a DocG type theory infeasable. Because on the surface it appears BR awakens and stumbles upon a 911 call. So if PR is being duped by JR and BR is innocent why send BR back to bed, and why does PR not query this?

If PR believes her daughter has been kidnapped I'd think the last thing on her mind would be to have to deal with another child. She knows he's safe and unharmed. It would be much easier to tell him to go back to bed, without upsetting him and then having to comfort him, and deal with the situation at hand.

In fact why was BR not told some scaled down version of the kidnapping and told some policemen will be here shortly?

Same as above.

That that never happened tells you all three Ramsey's colluded, and more importantly that PR knowingly colluded with JR, because you can argue BR was not really involved?


That question is so contradictory I have no idea what you're trying to say. If "all three R's colluded", then how is "BR not really involved"?

I'm sure if my spouse and I were trying to cover up the murder of our daughter we'd really "collude" with our nine year old son. He'd undoubtedly have a lot to contribute. :rolleyes:
 

CircuitGuy

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I've heard it. I have no doubt whatsoever that all three of the remaining R's were in the same room while PR spoke to the 911-operator. And from the nature of what I believe was said in the background, I think all three were aware of what had happened, and all three knew the 911-call was pretense.
Can you point me to the audio? The one I hard on YouTube had no intelligible or identifiable voices in the background.

Assuming you're right and JR said "we're not speaking to you right now," and BR said "What did you find?", wouldn't that be consistent with BR being unaware of the details of the call or that it was ruse?
 

Nom de plume

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midwest mama,
Another curious aspect to this case is that despite being voted to be indicted the R's have never faced any other charges.

So I checked out some other cases for parallels, and of course there are none.

I found one case involving an alleged staged intruder homicide. Including the cleanup and redressing of the victim.

This is the case of lawyer Robert Wone. On a summer night in 2006, Wone, who had worked late in Washington, had asked to spend the night at the home of three friends, rather than commute to his family residence in Oakton, Va. The next day he was reported dead. The defense argument was that an intruder broke in during the night and stabbed Wone three times.

Now some of the forensic evidence in this case matches that of JonBenet's for its bizarreness.

To date, as far as I know, nobody has been convicted of Robert Wone's death.

But three men were charged with conspiracy, obstruction-of-justice and tampering-with-evidence charges. The jury returned not guilty verdicts on all charges.

So how come none of the Ramseys have ever faced any such charges?

.

1. BR was too young to face any charges of any kind.
2. JR & PR didn't because of their high priced, highly connected attorneys and a DA that was either totally corrupt, or afraid to appear in court in any case, or both.
 

UKGuy

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If PR believes her daughter has been kidnapped I'd think the last thing on her mind would be to have to deal with another child. She knows he's safe and unharmed. It would be much easier to tell him to go back to bed, without upsetting him and then having to comfort him, and deal with the situation at hand.



Same as above.




That question is so contradictory I have no idea what you're trying to say. If "all three R's colluded", then how is "BR not really involved"?

I'm sure if my spouse and I were trying to cover up the murder of our daughter we'd really "collude" with our nine year old son. He'd undoubtedly have a lot to contribute. :rolleyes:

Nom de plume,
But thats not what the R's claimed in their version of events. They said BR was asleep throughout whatever took place, and BR attempted to corroborate this version, but did agree he was awake and faked being asleep.

So whats the problem, a concerned mother safekeeping her son, that not an issue is it?

So why not tell it like it is, Oh we just told BR, everything is OK, just go back to bed?

Why not tell the truth, is it such a big deal?

That question is so contradictory I have no idea what you're trying to say. If "all three R's colluded", then how is "BR not really involved"?
mmm, should I answer you? Can one collude without being involved, shall I go there? Ever heard of collusion after the fact?

Assuming a DocG style theory BR can collude but have nothing to do with the death of JonBenet, i.e. he is simply carrying out his parents wishes.

So why does PR lie about BR? What is the percentage there. According to DocG she is being duped by JR, so why invent a story that is false?

DocG's theory asserts JR has staged almost everything in the house, we also have PR lying about BR's version of events and BR agrees to participate in this collusion.

That must mean all three Ramsey's colluded!


.
 

UKGuy

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1. BR was too young to face any charges of any kind.
2. JR & PR didn't because of their high priced, highly connected attorneys and a DA that was either totally corrupt, or afraid to appear in court in any case, or both.

Nom de plume,
Interesting, BR is no longer too young, and presumably he might possess information. If it can be shown he must know something, surely his age is not a barrier to conspiracy charges, or whatever?

The R's have the right kind of connections, thats not in doubt. That suspects in an alleged staged intruder homicide are charged with conspiracy, i.e. Robert Wone Homicide, shows you that it can be done.


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questfortrue

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Nom de plume,
Interesting, BR is no longer too young, and presumably he might possess information. If it can be shown he must know something, surely his age is not a barrier to conspiracy charges, or whatever?

The R's have the right kind of connections, thats not in doubt. That suspects in an alleged staged intruder homicide are charged with conspiracy, i.e. Robert Wone Homicide, shows you that it can be done.


.

My understanding (and legal eagles correct me if I'm incorrect), the statute of limitations on any charges besides a murder charge have run out in Colorado. And, because BR was under 10 when it happened, he could never have been charged with anything - conspiracy etc. - anyway

But your right, regards why wasn't anything further done, even conspiracy, or accessory to murder after the fact against the R's. Know I'm stating the obvious, that some people think the arrow of blame should be pointed at AH. Poster BAM once said, the DA's office in Boulder had Nobody who could prosecute. There wasn't anyone in the DA's office with enough trial practice to go to court in this case.
 

Chrishope

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My understanding (and legal eagles correct me if I'm incorrect), the statute of limitations on any charges besides a murder charge have run out in Colorado. And, because BR was under 10 when it happened, he could never have been charged with anything - conspiracy etc. - anyway

But your right, regards why wasn't anything further done, even conspiracy, or accessory to murder after the fact against the R's. Know I'm stating the obvious, that some people think the arrow of blame should be pointed at AH. Poster BAM once said, the DA's office in Boulder had Nobody who could prosecute. There wasn't anyone in the DA's office with enough trial practice to go to court in this case.


Right. He'd have to be guilty of something now to be charged, and he is under no obligation to talk to the police.
 

midwest mama

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Something that seems out of timeline to me:
Call to 911 by hysterical Patsy: 5:52 am, later stated JR was in underwear reading the note on the floor nearby.
Police arrive: 6:00 am - Greeted in front of the house by Patsy who ushers them indoors where a fully clothed JR directs them to the RN in the kitchen.

In 8 minutes, JR got fully clothed and returned to the kitchen, and if BR was near enough to the phone to be heard at the end of the 911 call, he was then prompted to return to bed and stay there, as if he had never been awake, right? You would think either JR or PR would have made sure this happened, but perhaps not. At any rate, lots of rushing by them within 8 minutes to be in their respective "positions" when police arrived.

Dodie makes an interesting observation on the 911 call thread: That in his interview that morning, BR said JB was awake when they came home, and that he was in his bed that morning, but pretending to be asleep. This harkens back to earlier postings about asperger's people being unable to lie, and the thought BR might have been diagnosed for that syndrome at the time.
 

otg

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Can you point me to the audio? The one I hard on YouTube had no intelligible or identifiable voices in the background.

Assuming you're right and JR said "we're not speaking to you right now," and BR said "What did you find?", wouldn't that be consistent with BR being unaware of the details of the call or that it was ruse?
You're new here, CircuitGuy, so welcome to the fray.

First, let me explain about the different versions of the 911-call. There are (to my knowledge) four different recordings of the 911 call:

  1. The original tape that was recorded by the 911 call center.
  2. A cassette copy of the original version that was given by BPD to several different audio labs for analysis. It was this version that was enhanced by Aerospace Corporation in California, but has never been released to the public. It is this version that has been reported to have the most understandable enhancement because of the work they did with it. It has never been released to the public.
  3. The cassette tape version (made from a cassette copy of the original, making it 3rd generation) that was released to the public.
  4. The CD version (made from a cassette copy of the original, making it 3rd generation also) that was released to the public.
Both the cassette and the CD versions that were released publicly (#3, and #4) have part of the end destroyed. This is obvious because they are different from one another at the end (as well as the beginning). It is these two versions that have been converted to digital and are available online. One of the two (I think it’s the CD version) has a repetitive mechanical sound overlaid on the missing section at the end and has all of the extraneous background conversation removed. The other (I think the cassette version) is cut off just after the part of the background conversation where you can hear PR repeating "Help me Jesus," and you can also hear the “third voice” say, “What did you...” just before it is cut off.

Keep in mind, the only ones we have available are 3rd generation (4th generation if we consider the conversion to digital). Just like a copy of a copy of a copy of a printed page loses definition, so does an audio recording. So it’s impossible to get a clean enhancement of what is available to us.

Before I registered here at WS, I had used a free audio enhancement program (WavePad) to see if I could clean it up a little, even though I'm certain professionals have much better tools available to them.

I uploaded all my work here. I don't know which is which, but Versions-1 and -2 are the cassette and CD versions that were released to the public. You'll see that one has the beginning cut off (which is the part where I believe PR is speaking to someone else before she realizes the call has been answered). Both of the released versions have part of the end cut off or recorded over for ~5 seconds on one and 11 seconds on the other before they end. There is another recording (jbr-911-enhanced.wav) which I eliminated the ambient noise at the end, lowered the volume on the keyboard tapping, and turned up the overall volume. This one has the clearest (I could get) part where you can hear the other voices.

If you care to "see" where the voices occur, you can see the program I used here. But don't expect the sound quality to be that good on Youtube -- I only used that to show where it is in the recording. In the graphic in that video, you can see the sound patterns of the same recording before the enhancement in the upper module, and after the enhancement in the lower module.
 

UKGuy

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Something that seems out of timeline to me:
Call to 911 by hysterical Patsy: 5:52 am, later stated JR was in underwear reading the note on the floor nearby.
Police arrive: 6:00 am - Greeted in front of the house by Patsy who ushers them indoors where a fully clothed JR directs them to the RN in the kitchen.

In 8 minutes, JR got fully clothed and returned to the kitchen, and if BR was near enough to the phone to be heard at the end of the 911 call, he was then prompted to return to bed and stay there, as if he had never been awake, right? You would think either JR or PR would have made sure this happened, but perhaps not. At any rate, lots of rushing by them within 8 minutes to be in their respective "positions" when police arrived.

Dodie makes an interesting observation on the 911 call thread: That in his interview that morning, BR said JB was awake when they came home, and that he was in his bed that morning, but pretending to be asleep. This harkens back to earlier postings about asperger's people being unable to lie, and the thought BR might have been diagnosed for that syndrome at the time.

midwest mama,
All done in eight minutes. Well I guess its possible if everyone is on-board and acts accordingly.

Of course JR's story about the underwear etc, is rubbish. What they did prior to and just after the 911 call, can simply be invented as the R's thought: who can say otherwise?

I'll guarantee you by the time JR, PR and BR gathered to make the 911 call, they would all have been dressed for whatever role they had to play, i.e. Patsy and her clothes, BR in his pajamas, etc. JR would have double-checked everything was as expected, then PR dialled 911.

What this really means is that the R's were dressed long before the 911 call was made, simply because they had been up half the night. Note how JR reads the RN in his underwear, but does not pick it up. Daughter kidnapped, so OK I'll just kneel down here and read where she has gone, duh!

Both JR and PR later agree BR was awake. That BR tells us JonBenet walked into the house the night before, confirms what the pineapple evidence also tells us.

So it seems unassailable that all three R's colluded in the staged death of JonBenet.


.
 

Chrishope

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Something that seems out of timeline to me:
Call to 911 by hysterical Patsy: 5:52 am, later stated JR was in underwear reading the note on the floor nearby.
Police arrive: 6:00 am - Greeted in front of the house by Patsy who ushers them indoors where a fully clothed JR directs them to the RN in the kitchen.

In 8 minutes, JR got fully clothed and returned to the kitchen, and if BR was near enough to the phone to be heard at the end of the 911 call, he was then prompted to return to bed and stay there, as if he had never been awake, right? You would think either JR or PR would have made sure this happened, but perhaps not. At any rate, lots of rushing by them within 8 minutes to be in their respective "positions" when police arrived.

Dodie makes an interesting observation on the 911 call thread: That in his interview that morning, BR said JB was awake when they came home, and that he was in his bed that morning, but pretending to be asleep. This harkens back to earlier postings about asperger's people being unable to lie, and the thought BR might have been diagnosed for that syndrome at the time.

Of course we don't know that JR was in his skivvies before the 911 call, but if he was, it seems like plenty of time to me. Guys can get dressed fast. Especially guys who've served in the military. There are surprise drills that one must respond to, in full uniform, within minutes, from a dead sleep. I can't see why it would take the average veteran anywhere near 8 minutes to get dressed if the need was there. (assuming normal physical condition)

I also can't really see rushing to dress for the police. PR is there to greet them, what does it matter if he comes down a few minutes later? If they are colluding, then she knows what part she's playing. If they aren't colluding does he need to be there to control things as much as possible? Of course, if they are colluding, and JR wants to greet police, and needs time to dress, they can always delay the call to 5:59, or 6:04.

PR of course was already dressed, in the same clothes she wore to the party - which any good co-conspirator would do to prevent suspicion :)

I wonder if BR was prompted, or just went back to bed on his own? I know that sounds counter-intuitive for a "normal" kid, but IF BR has one of the range of autism spectrum disorders, (and I'm not saying he does) then he might have been very sensitive to excessive stimuli, such as lights on police cars, and loud talking, and general commotion. I see autistic kids from time to time, and many try to avoid crowds and loud noises. A house rapidly filling with people might be like nails on a blackboard to some kids with an autism spectrum disorder.

I'm not saying this is what happened, just wondering.

I also wonder if PR could just be mistaken about BR not being up. If she really was innocent, and really believed JB had been kidnapped, I doubt she'd be carefully observing the exact time everyone got up or came into the room. If he went back to bed, on his own, she might simply be misremembering? Of course that won't do, the Rs always have to be lying.

So that's one possible explanation.

Another is that all 3 are colluding in a coverup of the killing of JB.
 

CircuitGuy

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First, let me explain about the different versions of the 911-call.

Thanks for explainin something that many people already know.

Do you think whoever made the copies honestly missed the beginning and end, thinking they were just static? Do do you think they intentionally hid evidence?

The 911 enhanced file you linked to is amazing. The rest of the call is much clearer. It rings even more false than the one I heard. It doesn't make sense that she's so eager for the police to come when the ransom note says they'll release her for a small amount of money if they don't call the police. If they had been smart, the police could have made arrangements for undercover agents to meet PR and BR in a private conference room in a bank or post office. That way if the kidnappers were following her, they might think she's getting the money or something-- it's better than a bunch of squad cars showing up. They could have gone to the bank, asked for a private meeting, phoned the police from there, and had the BR and PR stay in the back room in the bank while JR went home with the money. I know the police weren't trained for a kidnapping, but they might have thought up something like that if she had told them in a low voice that she has a ransom note and she'd rather pay the ransom than get the police conspicuously involved and risk the kidnappers freaking out and murdering her.

I still don't hear anything at all at the end. Maybe the only odd thing is she was carrying on during the call and she suddenly stopped when she hung up. But I can't hear any traces of conversation. I have to take Kolar's word that there is some partially-audible non-frantic conversation at the end of the call.
 

otg

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Thanks for explainin something that many people already know.

Do you think whoever made the copies honestly missed the beginning and end, thinking they were just static? Do do you think they intentionally hid evidence?
Think about the process of physically copying the recording. Would it not be much easier to copy the entire thing than to selectively edit portions and/or record over certain portions?

The 911 enhanced file you linked to is amazing. The rest of the call is much clearer. It rings even more false than the one I heard.
The rest of the call, the actual conversation between PR and the 911-tech, took place with the phone receiver held at her mouth. The background conversation took place with the phone receiver working like a room microphone picking up background sounds. Did you hear the beginning of the call on "Version-2" ("jbr-911-begining" is just that portion alone)? Do you notice the change in tone of voice between PR's unfinished sentence and the frantic voice she suddenly starts using with the 911-tech? When you hear it (and you will hear it, because she is holding the receiver in place waiting for an answer on the other end), ask yourself who she is talking to.

It doesn't make sense that she's so eager for the police to come when the ransom note says they'll release her for a small amount of money if they don't call the police. If they had been smart, the police could have made arrangements for undercover agents to meet PR and BR in a private conference room in a bank or post office. That way if the kidnappers were following her, they might think she's getting the money or something-- it's better than a bunch of squad cars showing up. They could have gone to the bank, asked for a private meeting, phoned the police from there, and had the BR and PR stay in the back room in the bank while JR went home with the money. I know the police weren't trained for a kidnapping, but they might have thought up something like that if she had told them in a low voice that she has a ransom note and she'd rather pay the ransom than get the police conspicuously involved and risk the kidnappers freaking out and murdering her.
All this is assuming there had actually been a kidnapping for ransom. You don't really think that was the case, do you?

I still don't hear anything at all at the end. Maybe the only odd thing is she was carrying on during the call and she suddenly stopped when she hung up. But I can't hear any traces of conversation. I have to take Kolar's word that there is some partially-audible non-frantic conversation at the end of the call.
It's there. Some of it has been deliberately removed from the recordings the public has access to, but enough of it remains to provide proof that it exists. I'm sorry you can't hear it.
 

CircuitGuy

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Did you hear the beginning of the call on "Version-2" ("jbr-911-begining" is just that portion alone)? Do you notice the change in tone of voice between PR's unfinished sentence and the frantic voice she suddenly starts using with the 911-tech? When you hear it (and you will hear it, because she is holding the receiver in place waiting for an answer on the other end), ask yourself who she is talking to.

I really want to hear it but I cannot. I think I hear one phoneme maybe. That phoneme doesn't sound frantic, but I can't tell.

I took a grad class on speech signal processing and my hobby since childhood was pulling weak shortwave signals out of the noise floor; none of that helps me pull any info out of it. I haven't used the signal processing stuff in ten years; and I no longer have any speech processing tools.

Can you describe in words exactly what you hear at the beginning and end of these calls? What is she saying at the beginning? What does it sound like?[/QUOTE]

All this is assuming there had actually been a kidnapping for ransom. You don't really think that was the case, do you?
I obviously don't know, but my guess is PR did not think her daughter was being held for ransom. My reason for that is she yells and tells the police to "hurry". That would make sense if she thought the kidnappers had just left and maybe the police could catch them pulling out of her neighborhood if they happened to have an officer in the area. It makes no sense if she's possibly been gone for hours and the people who have her say they'll return her promptly for a modest amount of money.

If I believed a kidnapper took her, I would get the rest of the family to the bank with the idea they would be safer there and the kidnappers would not react negatively if they were watching. If I thought it was some sick joke, I would get BR up and do a thorough search of the house. BR claims she thought this was a bona fide kidnapping, so I cannot understand why she's not whispering, why here entire demeanor is "let's give them what they want and not threaten or confront them so they won't hurt her." Did she ever express any paranoia after the "kidnapping" that maybe the kidnapper is listening outside her window, hiding in the house, etc? It's dark at 6am around the solstice. I sometimes get creeped out going to the basement at night b/c our house is big enough that if some mentally ill homesless person broke into our basement to escape the cold, we might not hear it; and I've never had a home invasion. If I found a ransom note and my daughter gone, I'd get the gun and get everyone the heck out of there quietly. I wouldn't dream of screaming "police" into the phone.

My point in all this that although I cannot hear any suspicious background conversation whatsoever, the main tenor of the call and her tone are inconsistent with someone who thinks there has been a home invasion and kidnapping for ransom.
 

CircuitGuy

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Do the Ramsey's have a story that they say could explain the note the murder?

At first I thought it made no sense b/c the kidnappers would want to get the body out of the house. But why? They planned on kidnapping her and keeping them under surveillance to make sure they didn't go to the authorities. That brings to mind their being in a nondescript van down the road.

But as long as the Ramsey were cooperating, why even hide? One of the kidnappers could have walked in the front door. Then I thought, wouldn't it be logical for them to hold her hostage in the house where they could eavesdrop and hear about any plans to get marked bills or contact the authorities? There was a good chance the Ramsey's would search the house, but if the kidnapper heard them coming, he'd just put a gun to the bound JBR's head. Sure he'd feel cornered the basement of a house, but it's actually better for the kidnapper than to be in their van parked in some public park. At some point the kidnapper would have to do the exchange and face the Ramsey's.

If this scenario were true, the kidnapper may have heard the frantic 911 call, initiate the already-configured garrote, and climbed out the window.

I am not saying I think this scenario is likely, but it's the kind of nightmare that would have gone through my mind if I had seen the ransom note, which is why I cannot understand her loud call to the police. She even said "Police!" at the beginning of the call. It's the opposite of what you'd want to do if you believed a note that said they'll kill her if you call the police but return her for a modest sum of money.
 

Chrishope

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Do the Ramsey's have a story that they say could explain the note the murder?

At first I thought it made no sense b/c the kidnappers would want to get the body out of the house. But why? They planned on kidnapping her and keeping them under surveillance to make sure they didn't go to the authorities. That brings to mind their being in a nondescript van down the road.

But as long as the Ramsey were cooperating, why even hide? One of the kidnappers could have walked in the front door. Then I thought, wouldn't it be logical for them to hold her hostage in the house where they could eavesdrop and hear about any plans to get marked bills or contact the authorities? There was a good chance the Ramsey's would search the house, but if the kidnapper heard them coming, he'd just put a gun to the bound JBR's head. Sure he'd feel cornered the basement of a house, but it's actually better for the kidnapper than to be in their van parked in some public park. At some point the kidnapper would have to do the exchange and face the Ramsey's.

If this scenario were true, the kidnapper may have heard the frantic 911 call, initiate the already-configured garrote, and climbed out the window.

I am not saying I think this scenario is likely, but it's the kind of nightmare that would have gone through my mind if I had seen the ransom note, which is why I cannot understand her loud call to the police. She even said "Police!" at the beginning of the call. It's the opposite of what you'd want to do if you believed a note that said they'll kill her if you call the police but return her for a modest sum of money.


Your instinct, that the RN doesn't make sense is correct, IMO.

One explanation is this (I'm giving you a very brief version, along with a link to the long detailed version)

JR did everything. PR and BR were not involved in the murder, or cover up. JR planned to get PR/BR out of the house, then he'd dump the body somewhere while pretending to be delivering the ransom. He bet on PR not calling the police, but she did. That is why PR does everything the RN says not to do - because she didn't read it carefully, and she's not in on the cover-up.

Maybe you've already seen this, but just in case - http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/2012/07/just-facts-maam.html

Consider this. If PR wrote the RN, putting in all the stuff about the house being monitored, electronic countermeasures, and the many threats that JB would die if the Rs called the police, then why didn't she mention any of that to the 911 operator? No matter one's theory of the case, it has to be admitted that PR's 911 call went contrary to everything in the RN. Why?

One possibility is that violating the instructions in the RN provides an explanation as to why the "kidnappers" killed JB. However, that only works if the body isn't found. Once the body is found, obviously there are no kidnappers (or at least no kidnapping) and the coroner is going to determine the TOD within a reasonable margin of error -SO, calling the police, with the body in the house, guarantees that the police know she was killed long before the 911 call. Therefore, violating the instructions can't be the reason for JB's death, even if the kidnappers were still in the basement. The Rs could try to stage the scene to fool the police, but they aren't going to fool the coroner with respect to TOD.

We know the scenario that you outlined (Intruders in the basement, killing JB when they heard the 911 call) could not be true, because we know she was killed around midnight. Give it an hour either way, and there is still no way she died a few minutes after the 911 call was made. Even with a 3 hour margin of error, we know she didn't die after the 911 call.
 
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