Hard Evidence

[Tuba]

Forensic Science Services is using law number copy techniques to build DNA pictures. With this technique, you can take just one or two cells from flaked skin, for instance, and replicate that until you have built a useable DNA profile. Or just dried perspiration or blood or urine. The samples from PDL are being treated this way. Even so, the PJ are complaining that the results are not being either produced or at least, transferred to them soon enough. Portuguese media seem to be suggesting suppression of evidence.

 

[Tuba]

PJ did want to have the FSS results before traveling to England to sit in on the interrogation of the Tapas 9. That may partly explain their impatience. It is not the police but the Portuguese media that think all the results are not coming through; I hope that is clear in my last post. Also, I certainly do not consider my speculation about the tranquilizers to be hard evidence, even though it has been reported that a tranq kit was found in the McCann's cupboard. I put very little trust in the news reports. We also heard there was a syringe found, remember? Then....nothing.

 

[april4sky]

Forensic Science Services is using law number copy techniques to build DNA pictures. With this technique, you can take just one or two cells from flaked skin, for instance, and replicate that until you have built a useable DNA profile. Or just dried perspiration or blood or urine. The samples from PDL are being treated this way. Even so, the PJ are complaining that the results are not being either produced or at least, transferred to them soon enough. Portuguese media seem to be suggesting suppression of evidence.

From the John Stalker article regarding the DNA
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/23411/McCanns-are-hiding-a-big-secret-

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

[SIZE=]The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing. I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=]There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever. To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.[/SIZE]

 

[Tuba]

FSS in Birmingham, even tonight on 2 November, states that the lab continues to test and that it has released no results although the media refers to "sources at the FSS" giving information. I wonder who the leak(s) is in Birmingham? Possibly some preliminary results went to the PJ who then leaked to Portuguese tabloids and the British press picked it up but Paulo Rebelo was strong in saying he was going to stopper the leaks.

 

[colomom]

FSS in Birmingham, even tonight on 2 November, states that the lab continues to test and that it has released no results although the media refers to "sources at the FSS" giving information. I wonder who the leak(s) is in Birmingham? Possibly some preliminary results went to the PJ who then leaked to Portuguese tabloids and the British press picked it up but Paulo Rebelo was strong in saying he was going to stopper the leaks.

LINK?????

Please.....

 

[Tuba]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/24056

I read it in several reports in today's news but this is one of them. The FSS statement is toward the end of the article.

 

[colomom]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/24056

I read it in several reports in today's news but this is one of them. The FSS statement is toward the end of the article.

Thank you Tuba!

 

[emery]

ALSO...can you imagine carrying either an alive, screaming, kicking child out a window or even if she had been drugged (say, chloroform, because any other drug would take t i m e) she would have been dead weight...how would you manage that? Therefore, if there was an abduction through the window there would have to have been an accomplice for Maddie to be passed to. In that case she would have to have been drugged, she would have been pitching a fit if not.

I would have thought this too, except recently there was a child abduction attempt in my area at a Walmart. The man scooped up a little boy in front of his sister and started walking toward the exit. Neither the boy or his sister made a sound as he was carried away. Fortunately, the boy's aunt came around the corner and saw the man and screamed for him to put the boy down. The man did so and then fled. They ultimately caught him. The boy and his sister told reporters they had not screamed because they were so surprised.

 

[colomom]

I would have thought this too, except recently there was a child abduction attempt in my area at a Walmart. The man scooped up a little boy in front of his sister and started walking toward the exit. Neither the boy or his sister made a sound as he was carried away. Fortunately, the boy's aunt came around the corner and saw the man and screamed for him to put the boy down. The man did so and then fled. They ultimately caught him. The boy and his sister told reporters they had not screamed because they were so surprised.

I came to that conclusion based on a couple of reports I read:

"Eileen McCann, Gerry’s mother – says: “I really believe they [whoever took her] gave her a drug. There is no way they carried her out of there without her waking. If she was taken when she was sleeping by somebody she did not know, she would have screamed the place down.”

(from: http://www.anorak.co.uk/madeleine-mccann/176686.html)

"I bet she's giving whoever she's with her tuppence worth."

(from: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/newsheadlines/article-23408117-details/Kate+tells+of+'worst+kind+of+limbo'/article.do)

"She does have a sense of danger there."

(from: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/05/earlyshow/main3334438.shtml?source=mostpop_story)

ALSO the picture of the "faceless man" shows a lifeless child in his arms.

Comments made by those that knew her best. This does not sound like a child that would go quietly.

 

[txsvicki]

Kate must not know about some of the children who have easily been abducted from their home and other places by being told that their parents sent for them or some such story.

 

[Desertpea]

I came to that conclusion based on a couple of reports I read:

"Eileen McCann, Gerry’s mother – says: “I really believe they [whoever took her] gave her a drug. There is no way they carried her out of there without her waking. If she was taken when she was sleeping by somebody she did not know, she would have screamed the place down.”

(from: http://www.anorak.co.uk/madeleine-mccann/176686.html)

"I bet she's giving whoever she's with her tuppence worth."

(from: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/newsheadlines/article-23408117-details/Kate+tells+of+'worst+kind+of+limbo'/article.do)

"She does have a sense of danger there."

(from: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/05/earlyshow/main3334438.shtml?source=mostpop_story)

ALSO the picture of the "faceless man" shows a lifeless child in his arms.

Comments made by those that knew her best. This does not sound like a child that would go quietly.

Madeleine was just 4 years old.

A 4 yr old would be easy to keep quiet for an adult male.

A dead weight of a 4 yr old would be nothing for an adult male to carry also.

 

[emery]

I'm merely saying that the general assumption that children will scream when a stranger tries to abduct them is just that -- an assumption. And possibly and an erroneous one.

We all would like to think our kids would scream bloody murder under those circumstances. I just happen to have heard of an abduction attempt where that didn't happen and the children, who had been taught about stranger danger, etc., were not really able to explain why afterward except to say they were too surprised.

Just want to point out assumptions, which may be faulty (whether made by us here or by Madeleine's grandmother).

 

[emery]

Madeleine was just 4 years old.

A 4 yr old would be easy to keep quiet for an adult male.

A dead weight of a 4 yr old would be nothing for an adult male to carry also.

But, I think he would have trouble getting her out a window by himself. That would require some serious maneuvering, I think. Not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would be rather difficult.

 

[Texana]

The shutter/window aspect is the most troubling for me.

First, the shutters appeared to have been tampered with from the inside. Why would anyone do that, when the back door and front door were much more quickly and easily accessible?

Secondly, carrying a child through a window not at ground level--more trouble than simply walking outside with her. And much more obvious as a kidnapping.

I can see slipping in the timing window, I can't see carrying the child out the shutter/window.

 

[Dr. Creepin]

‘No Stone Unturned’ by Steve Jackson is the catch-phrase for the ‘Find Madeleine’ website, launched in the week following her disappearance. Gerry was clearly familiar with this literature.

It's contents:

Founded in 1991 as a nonprofit forensic investigative team, NecroSearch International specializes in homicide cases shelved because of "corpus indelecti" that is, a body cannot be produced as evidence that a murder has taken place. Coming from a wide range of backgrounds geophysicists to "cadaver dog" specialists to chemists and rank-and-file cops the members of NecroSearch combine their skills to produce the most proficient (and most exciting) detective work since Sherlock Holmes. They take the coldest cases and comb for hidden graves on rural hillsides, in suburban backyards and at the bottom of mud-choked riverbeds, searching for remains that have been buried anywhere from two to 20 years

“Find the body and prove we killed her” – a challenge by Gerry and Kate McCann.

 

[Barnaby]

‘No Stone Unturned’ by Steve Jackson is the catch-phrase for the ‘Find Madeleine’ website, launched in the week following her disappearance. Gerry was clearly familiar with this literature.

It's contents:

Founded in 1991 as a nonprofit forensic investigative team, NecroSearch International specializes in homicide cases shelved because of "corpus indelecti" that is, a body cannot be produced as evidence that a murder has taken place. Coming from a wide range of backgrounds geophysicists to "cadaver dog" specialists to chemists and rank-and-file cops the members of NecroSearch combine their skills to produce the most proficient (and most exciting) detective work since Sherlock Holmes. They take the coldest cases and comb for hidden graves on rural hillsides, in suburban backyards and at the bottom of mud-choked riverbeds, searching for remains that have been buried anywhere from two to 20 years

“Find the body and prove we killed her” – a challenge by Gerry and Kate McCann.

Whatever they did with the body they did it well!

 

[Texana]

It is astounding how quickly a body left in a rural/uninhabited area--even out in the open--will not remain for long. I think from some accounts I have read, something, like 6 months or less.

Heartbreaking to think about, but realistic, that it would not be hard to make sure Madeleine was not found.

 

[CaliKid]

The shutter/window aspect is the most troubling for me.

First, the shutters appeared to have been tampered with from the inside. Why would anyone do that, when the back door and front door were much more quickly and easily accessible?

Secondly, carrying a child through a window not at ground level--more trouble than simply walking outside with her. And much more obvious as a kidnapping.

I can see slipping in the timing window, I can't see carrying the child out the shutter/window.

But I can see the parents playing with the shutter trying to create suspicion of kidnapping.

 

[gord]

But I can see the parents playing with the shutter trying to create suspicion of kidnapping.

that could of course be possible

I can also see that it would be possible for an abductor to hand Maddy out of the window to another person - hence they would be opened from the inside - that could also be a an alternative ?

It is becoming very frustrating for everyone that this case is still in limbo

 

[Tuba]

Kate McCann also said that there was a single noticeable shoe print on the bedspread. She was asked if she meant it looked as though someone had stepped on the bed before using the window as an exit or pass through. She said that was how it looked. This came to light around the time she described the bed as unmussed, just after that was reported. It is beyond all reason that the PJ did not seize the bedding for later testing. There must have been valuable information in the sheets, pillow, blankets, spread. From mere visual examination, two strange hairs were found, remember?