Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

ZsaZsa

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I think the defense did a good job of giving doubt that Caylee was murdered. However, they failed to give any doubt that KC and KC alone was the person that put her in the trunk and tossed her like trash. The question will come down to which jurors beleive the tape was over her mouth. If they feel the tap was on her mouth, they will convict her of murder, if they are not sure, they will convict her of a lesser offense. IMO, the state needs to hammer home that tape was on her mouth. Enough with the smell, I dont think anyone doubts there was a dead body in KC's trunk.

They all saw the computer generated images. They saw the tape, as it was placed over her nose and mouth. It only took one piece to obstruct her airways. She had three..
 

MissJames

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Don't get me wrong, I think that Casey and Casey alone is responsible for Caylee's death and I agree with you regarding her actions. The way she has thrown her family under the bus makes me sick and I just hope the jury see her for what she is.

As far as why people are saying they need proof to how she died, I think people are saying this is because of what the jury has to base their decision on. They can't just feel or think that she murdered her, it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt which makes it hard if you don't know how she died.

To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. The Victim is dead (Give 2a, 2b, or 2c as applicable)

a. The death occurred as a consequence of and while defendant was engaged in the commission of crime alleged.
b. The death occurred as a consequence of and while defendant was attempting to commit crime alleged.
c. The death occurred as a consequence of and while defendant, or an accomplice, was escaping from the immediate scene of crime alleged.

Give 3a if defendant actual perpetrator.

3. a. Defendant was the person who actually killed the victim.

With that, unless all of the jurors believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the duct tape or chloroform was used then I don't see how they can convict her of Murder 1.

Aggravated Child Abuse +death = the same sentence DP or LWOP
 

LongtimeMedic

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Aggravated Child Abuse +death = the same sentence DP or LWOP

Not attempting to be confrontational at all, but what was it the State presented that proved Aggravated Child Abuse had occurred?? After all... that's a mighty big charge in itself. moo
 

GeekyGirl

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Sorry to quote myself but I meant to add that with all the grandstanding and stupid stories that the defense added does make me wonder why. If it were just a simple accident why didnt the defense just say so instead of the drama.

My take on this is that Casey is unwilling to accept ANY responsibility in Caylee's death. The parts of the state's case that I find to be the most solid, that Caylee was in Casey's care and the death is somehow a result of Casey's actions (or inactions) would probably allow most reasonable people to find her guilty of manslaughter, at minimum. Her only chance of getting off on all the charges (with perhaps the exception of the 4 counts of lying to LE) was to present a defense that absolved her of any direct responsibility for the death. Crazy, I know, but to me it just illustrates the point that no matter what happened that day, Casey would have done exactly what it appears she did... hide the body and move on with her life. MOO
 

GeekyGirl

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Aggravated Child Abuse +death = the same sentence DP or LWOP

If you accept that chloroform was used to sedate her and somehow killed her, yes. If it was chloroform or duct tape used to intentionally kill her then premeditation. The point I think the OP was trying to make is that there may be people who aren't convinced BARD that either of those were the COD, and if you're unsure of how she was killed, how can you say it meets the elements of first degree murder? MOO
 

Sabrina2011

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No they have not proved reasonable doubt to me. I'm anxious to hear what the jury's take is
 

GeekyGirl

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They all saw the computer generated images. They saw the tape, as it was placed over her nose and mouth. It only took one piece to obstruct her airways. She had three..

And Dr G testified that she could not conclusively say that the tape was placed prior to death, which might give some jurors pause. MOO
 

roseofsharon

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What happens if one juror disagrees on a guilty verdict.

Is the case re-tried or does KC walk.

Thanks -- I don't know law.
 

ZsaZsa

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And Dr G testified that she could not conclusively say that the tape was placed prior to death, which might give some jurors pause. MOO

She stated it was placed prior to decomposition-
In her post mortem report and on the witness stand.
 

GeekyGirl

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She stated it was placed prior to decomposition-
In her post mortem report and on the witness stand.

A body does not begin to visibly decompose right away. I would tend to think if she could have said that it was conclusively applied prior to death she would have testified to that fact.
 

ZsaZsa

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A body does not begin to visibly decompose right away. I would tend to think if she could have said that it was conclusively applied prior to death she would have testified to that fact.


Here is what she said. She makes it very clear.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX9F0ri7E0A"]YouTube - ‪DR G says Caylee Anthonys death was a Homicide.MOV‬‏[/ame]
Homicide.
 

Nova24

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What happens if one juror disagrees on a guilty verdict.

Is the case re-tried or does KC walk.

Thanks -- I don't know law.

That would be a hung jury and a mistrial would be called. State then has the option to try the case again. I believe they would.

I don't think we see a full aquittal as 12 will never agree she's not guilty but on the other hand I don't think they get 12 to agree to 1st. I believe it will be 2nd or Agg Man and then convicted onthe 4 lesser charges as well.
 

Nova24

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If the State does open that door in rebuttal

They can't bring her back on their own, right? It has to be State does or they open that door in another way, correct?

From what I can tell only 2 more witnesses to go and both are Gentiva employees.
 

LolaMoon08

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You do know that the jury is going to get evidence that was not actually discussed in the State's CIC?? An example off the top of my head is Casey's photobucket pictures. You know, like the one with the little girl looking up at a teddybear with the noose around it's neck? Saying something like "Why do people kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong" not verbatim of course. Something like that.
 

faefrost

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Here's a very interesting read for those in quest of deeper understanding and enhancing their knowledge base. I found it quite apropos considering the DT rested today.

I found this particularly interesting:

"Thogmartin said the charged emotions inevitably triggered by a child's death add another layer of complexity. Forensic pathologists, in his view, can get "caught up in the anger, the emotion, the despair." Their mindset can become prosecutorial, Thogmartin said, until every child death is a "homicide until proven otherwise."

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137454415/the-child-cases-guilty-until-proven-innocent

So duct taped, trash bagged and dumped like garbage in a swamp is an accidental death or natural causes? (I'm really hoping we can rule out suicide?)
 

LongtimeMedic

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They can't bring her back on their own, right? It has to be State does or they open that door in another way, correct?

From what I can tell only 2 more witnesses to go and both are Gentiva employees.

I'm not a legal expert, but I believe the SAO would have to present something that opens the door for it to be rebutted first... that's what surrebuttal is for, the Defense last shot at rebutting States Evidence. I thought they should have re-called her in their CIC and asked about it. JMOO.

Input from any legal professionals is very welcomed to confirm or deny my interpretation.
 

Nova24

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I'm not a legal expert, but I believe the SAO would have to present something that opens the door for it to be rebutted first... that's what surrebuttal is for, the Defense last shot at rebutting States Evidence. I thought they should have re-called her in their CIC and asked about it. JMOO.

Input from any legal professionals is very welcomed to confirm or deny my interpretation.

TY. I think you have it right. What does CIC mean? I have the drift of what you mean by your statement but not sure what the initials stand for. Thanks again.
 
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