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Head Blow

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by K777angel, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    I do not recall this question being addressed and I think it is an important one to ask.

    JonBenet was struck hard on the side of her head. Dr. Meyer stated during the autopsy that her head injuries were consistent with a "blow to the head".
    What position must JonBenet have been in to have recieved this blow to her head? To try and strike a blow on the side of the head to someone lying down would have been very awkward - like golfing. Not very likely at all. She must have been upright then.
    Which means she had to have been STRUCK first - and then strangled.
    Because she could not have been in an upright position to have that object swung to the side of her head - had she been strangled and unconscious/near death.
    It makes no sense that someone struck her head when she was lying down.
    And supposedly dead from being strangled.

    This is one of the reasons I believe that JonBenet was struck on the head
    first and then thinking that she was already dead from it (after shaking her to try and revive her - which is why she had bruising in both her temporal lobes)
    the stager HAD to come up with something VISIBLE to give a reason why she was dead.
    But there was just enough life left in her little body to cause the fairly minor damage done with the cord pulled tight around her neck.
    I'm sure much to the horror of the stager upon learning of this later.
     
  2. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Do any Hi-tecs come in steel toe? Maybe she was kicked in the head.
    JMO
     
  3. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Angel,

    That's a good question. Also, if her arms were bound together at the wrists and positioned over her head, the arms would be in the way if someone tried to hit her over the head.

    Nevertheless, the way I interpret the autopsy, the strangulation and death would have likely been first because of the petechial hemorrhages on the neck and eyelid and only 7 or 8 cc's of blood on the brain.

    JMO
     
  4. vicktor

    vicktor New Member

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    Although its possible that JB could have been in an upright position when the blow was delivered, it looks to me like there a several senarios where she could have been lying down. A large heavy object coming down from vertical to the side of the head would probably cause the fracture, or her head could have been turned sideways. Since a golf club was present some have speclated that it might have caused the fracture, but due to the low ceilings I would first look to another source.
     
  5. SisterSocks

    SisterSocks What a wild and crazy trip its been

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    Agree that she could been hit fom the side.

    Maybe like swinging a baseball bat??
     
  6. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Bet on Burke, in the basement, with the baseball bat.
    And you can also swing a baseball bat over your head besides the usual side-swing.

    IMO/JMO
     
  7. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    I just don't think it makes sense to think that she was struck AFTER she was "strangled." What would even be the purpose?

    And the coroner purposely listed BOTH the asphyxiation and head trauma together because it could not be determined just which caused her actual death.

    The cord placed and tightened around her neck was part of the staging I believe. To cover up the hidden head trauma which had NO visible sign.
    Knowing she was going to be "discovered" at some point soon - they had to indicate SOME cause of her death. Something that looked obvious.
    No gunshot wound. No knife wound. A cord pulled around her neck to make it look like she was strangled - and a cord around her wrist - for no other purpose than to make it LOOK like there was a purpose. It was tied so loosely that the coroner simply slipped it off over her hand. Much to the lie John Ramsey told.

    The logistics of delivering a blow to the head to JonBenet in a position of lying flat on the ground just makes no sense. It is assuming the killer felt a NEED after supposedly first strangling her to go even further and whack a dead little girl on the side of the head. Then cover her up????

    No. I think the blow to her head was impulsive, and no "intention" of causing her a fatal wound was part of it. I think the sexual molestation was the catalyst in this sequence of sad events that started it all. She most likely cried (mucous smeared on her cheek) out and in anger and panic the perp lashed out for her to SHUT UP!! The rest of what was done to her is a mixture of staging and remorse/caring. So conflicted was this stager. (Not necessarily the perp of her injuries).
     
  8. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    Read the autopsy report, 8 1/2 " fracture from the right orbital ridge to the postparietal where there is a rectangular bone displacement. That's where the blow hit, in the BACK of the head. Get a tape measure and place the lead end just above the bony ridge over your right eye, at the "corner". Follow it back 8 1/2", you're at the back of the skull. And JonBenet's was smaller than yours, Then raise your arms and you'll see that the same area is free and clear of the arms. Plenty of room for the blow to have been struck while the body was suspended, if indeed it was.

    Coincidently, it is very near the same position that the bullet entered John Kennedy"s skull.

    Maybe Sundance can pull up the x-ray.
     
  9. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    If JBR was struck after she was strangled, it was probably a coup de gras to make sure she was good and dead. Either that, or the killer thought a head blow would make the scene look more intruder-like.
     
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I once read an article in a newspaper about someone who died from a head injury which hadn't been particularly violent but when the post mortem was done, it transpired that there was a weakness there in the skull that may have come from an old injury. I know that broken bone knits more thickly than it was before and is therefore stronger at the point of the break, but I have a pupil who suffered a really bad break to his arm. The bone snapped and was protruding from his arm. He was in a cast for a long time and had to abstain from games for a long time. Then he went back to games and within no time he broke it again, in the same place. I don't know whether this is unusual. I'd be interested to know if any medics consider that JonBenet's skull fracture could have been attributed to a weakness perhaps stemming from an old injury.
     
  11. DejaNu

    DejaNu Guest

    Jayelles, had there been an old injury underlying the head wound, evidence would most likely have been found on autopsy, i.e., the thickening of the healed site as you mentioned with your student. No such evidence was documented by Dr. Meyers, so I am assuming there wasn't an old wound.

    The autopsy report indicates that there was a small amount of subdural bleeding at the head wound site. This would indicate, given the obvious force of the blow, that blood flow to the brain at that time was significantly diminished. Strangulation would definitely block the flow of blood to the brain. Therefore, logically, IMO the strangulation occurred first. But I'm no medical expert and if Meyers couldn't tell, how could we????
     
  12. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I have Cyril Wecht's book and he is very good about discussing other experts' opinions - even if they disagree with his own. He names several experts who believe the head blow came first and why they believe so.

    I like wecht because he doesn't attack others for having different opinions, merely explains why he disagrees. He disagrees with the headblow coming first because of the lack of blood.
     
  13. Misty

    Misty Inactive

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    When Meyers reflected (EXPOSED) the skull cap an “extensive area of scal hemmorrhage along the right temporoparietal area extending from the oribital ridge, posteriorly all the way to the occipital area, which encompasses an area measuring approximately 7x4 inches.”
    FIRST AREA OF BLEEDING

    Then Meyers removed the skull cap: “On removal of the skull cap there is found to to be a thin film of subdural hemorrhage measuring approximately 7-8 cc (JUST OVER A TEASPOON; 5 cc = 1 tsp.) over the surface of the right cerebral hemisphere and extending to the base of the cerebral hemisphere.”
    SECOND AREA OF BLEEDING

    He then found another area of hemorrhage: “There is a thin film of subarachnoid hemorrhage overlying the entire right cerebral hemisphere.”
    THIRD AREA OF BLEEDING

    All of this internal bleeding is causing pressure (intracranial pressure) inside the head; person will usually lose consciousness. This increased pressure will DECREASE BLOOD FLOW TO THE BRAIN.

    At the same time JonBenet’s brain was beginning to swell “mild narrowing of the sulci and flattening of the gyri are seen.” This swelling causes a rise in pressure within her brain, further affecting blood and oxygen flow to the brain.
     
  14. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    I've long thought the garrote device was given a hard yank and pulled taut for a few seconds...then, immediately, the head blow was inflicted. The garrote device was then yanked again and pulled taut for a longer period. This scenario could explain the second furrow on JonBenet's neck as well as the minimal bleeding from the skull fracture.
     
  15. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Maybe overkill. (are you familiar with that term?)

    Maybe she was unconcious, woke up, the killer panicked and whapped her in the head.
     
  16. SisterSocks

    SisterSocks What a wild and crazy trip its been

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    :woohoo: no doubt ---Yes Burke with the bat in the cellar. There is a picture of the Burkester in DOI with a Blackeyeholding a glove like he just caught it,Jon Benet right next to him in small black halfgloves . {Sorry not home don't have my book.}

    Any how, I have always wondered about Burke--- since seeing this pic...

    Yanno? :(

    Socks
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    From Dr. John Meyers autopsy report:

    "Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma."

    It seems to me that Meyer is telling us that JonBenet was strangled to death, but associated with the asphyxia that caused her death was a hit on the head.

    JonBenet can only die once. She died either by strangulation or by the hit on the head. Since Meyer clearly says cause of death is asphyxia, then he had to mean that the associated craniocerebral trauma was there but it was subordinate to the strangulation as the cause of death.

    If he wasn't sure which one was the cause of death he would have said so and not stated "Cause of death ...".

    JMO
     
  18. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    Yes I am familiar with the term overkill. Which does not apply in this case.
    Overkill is when someone is stabbed 27 times. Or shot 6 times.
    Not only that - typically in an overkill case the killer has a personal relationship with the victim. The rage and injuries inflicted on the victim are very personal.

    The headblow was by far the most violent of the 2 death-causing injuries inflicted on JonBenet. The cord tightening around her neck while causing external bruising (and the petechiae) - did NOT cause internal injuries to her neck and throat usually seen in true strangulations.
    The cord around her wrists were very LOOSE. So loose the coroner merely slipped them off her hand. There was no purpose to them even being there other than to stage the crime. Same as the cord around her neck.

    Has anyone ever considered that the cord with the broken paintbrush handle was ALREADY laying around downstairs that night?? That someone - possibly Burke, had been playing down there one day messing around with stuff and, as boys will do, tied the cord around that stick for some type of play?
    Then, when he tired of it he left it down there in the basement.
    Perhaps there was ONLY that much cord laying around - as was used on JonBenet that night. It is just as plausible - no, it is more plausible - than some intruder hell bent on kidnapping for ransom and coming to the house but not bringing the all important NOTE. Using all other elements from the home in the crime. Including I believe that piece of black tape over JonBenet's mouth. It may have come from a painting Patsy had done in Michigan..... or elsewhere.
     
  19. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    Maybe the head injury hastened her death by asphyxia or vice versa. Death is not a moment in time. It is a process.

    I once read that when a m.e. finds a ligature or ligature furrow and petechaie in the eyes, lungs, and heart, the cause of death should be listed as ligature strangulation. It's always possible something else killed the victim -- perhaps the killer stopped the strangulation just short of death and smothered her with a pillow -- but the most logical conclusion is death by ligature strangulation.
     
  20. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    IMO the injury confusion is caused by the choking-bashing-choking nature of the attack.

    IMO JB was attacked/choked first, then hit on the head, and then strangled until dead. It's perfectly consistent with a rage attack: perp grabs JB, flings her into something bashing her head, then stages/strangles.

    It's also consistent with the perp making JB unconscious by choking her, thinking her dead and bashing her head for staging, never expecting that the head blow would be "invisible," necessitating further staging, hence the garrote.

    Then there is the possibility of convulsions. If JB convulsed either after the initial choking or after the head blow, the perp may have freaked out and inflicted the next injury - either the head blow or the final strangulation/garroting - in order to stop the convulsions.

    As for the golf club... one of my theories is that the perp and JB were in the basement train room (the room with the broken window), the perp swung the golf club, bashing JB's head and hitting the window on the follow-through. This is one explanation why John would ignore the broken window and explain it away by claiming he himself broke it months earlier. IOW, if the window were involved in the incident that killed JB, the stager would need to explain it away. Of course, it could have been simply that John needed to explain his own prints (and no intruder prints) on the window.
     

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