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Discussion in 'Welcome To Websleuths' started by Hinriksen, May 5, 2019.

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  1. Hinriksen

    Hinriksen New Member

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    Hi. Heard about WebSleuths from "The Killing Season," and having watched after that the Zac Efron dramatization of the Ted Bundy history, "Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile," I was left will a little concern.

    The Bundy dramatization, I know just from background knowledge, glossed over AN AWFUL LOT, I think presuming that viewers would already know the story and that there was no need to address Bundy's guilt.

    But, based on (a) finding out in recent years how really sloppy police work very often is, and how readily they often jump to the first plausible explanation, and (b) seeing from "The Killing Season" suggestions that the extent of serial killing might be vastly under-reported, what was presented in the Bundy dramatization left me feeling a bit short of the sense of closure that "based on reality" crime video tends always to have (I think they stay away from unsolved cases to avoid missing that closure).

    In particular, the Colorado trial (I think?) suggested pretty strongly that the key witness had been directed toward Bundy, having been shown his photograph before picking him out of a line-up and not identifying his car accurately.

    Bundy's claim throughout the dramatization was that they latched onto him for whatever reason, and then were just adding to his file whatever cases they found that they could fit to him ... which I have to expect police might very well be inclined to do; they like closure, too.

    And the dramatization emphasized the prosecution harping on how awful the crimes were, and not so much on what linked Bundy to them. And, while nominally our criminal courts hold that accused are to be deemed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, I expect that most jurors considering someone who maybe possibly is a horrible serial killer will lean strongly toward locking that person away, just in case.

    Also, the dramatization suggested that a lot of the Florida trial hinged on connecting Bundy's teeth to a bite mark on a victim, and they way they portrayed that rang false with me just based on my understanding of statistics and logical inferences. And I understand also that "bite mark" evidence is now considered not very reliable.

    Again, the dramatization glossed over AN AWFUL LOT -- it barely mentioned that he had essentially a rape kit in his car -- and very likely they decided they'd get more interest if they left open the possibility that the legal findings might have been wrong (here I am, for example).

    So ... could someone who knows more about the Bundy history than I do let me know if he was indeed guilty as sin according to the evidence, and whether all of the very many murders linked to him are legitimately linked? I don't need a run-down of details of the evidence, but I tend to think I'd trust the judgment of someone from this forum than I necessarily do for our legal system, which has a vested interest in wrapping criminal matters up with a bow?

    Thanks in advance, and my apologies for the length of this post.
     
  2. WyomingSkyAngel

    WyomingSkyAngel Rocky Mountain Fresh

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    Bundy was sooooo guilty.

    They left out his first suspected killing (a teenaged girl who lived near his neighborhood.)

    Bite mark evidence plus other strong evidence linked him to the sorority house murders. I can detail downthread if you'd like. (Keep in mind bite mark evidence is very credible in court, as sets of teeth are very incredibly unique to each human being, and the average Westernized nation has the dental lab technology to collect copies of sets of teeth and compare them to bite wounds, wads of chewing gum, and other surfaces.) Ted Bundy also had the misfortune to have a victim escape his clutches before he could kill her, leading to a witness who could ID him and had firsthand knowledge of his voice, mannerisms and M.O. ………...

    I personally recall when he was executed (I was a kid) and I also grew up in a state that had the death penalty so even then I didn't think it was too outlandish that he ended up in a situation that led to his being subjected to capital punishment.
     
  3. JuniperBreeze

    JuniperBreeze New Member

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    I just started watching the Zac Efron Netflix version other night, so far they've skipped a few things I knew about. Seemed to focus mostly on him and his GF/Wife so far. There is another Doc on Bundy on Netflix that is more crime evidence based and informational. They go into the Sorority murders. I'd definitely watch that.
     
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  4. sleuther0192837465

    sleuther0192837465 Well-Known Member

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    I just finished watching the Netflix series Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes.
    Took me 3 days...it made me anxious, so I had to take it in small doses.
    I watched the Zac Efron one 2 wks ago. I think it was less informational because it was based on Bundy’s gf, Elizabeth Kloepfers’ (sp?) view.
    I was also a kid when he was out killing women. My mom talked about him. I remember my parents watching the news about his execution & the stays he kept getting. Crazy times....
     
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  5. ConundrumPonderer

    ConundrumPonderer New Member

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    Hello and welcome Hinriksen, please forgive the length of this post, Ted Bundy was the subject of papers I wrote at Uni, I have spent a great deal of time studying him, and the losses of the beautiful lives he took. I’m new here too, my ability to add hot links is, as yet, absent, so I’m just going to add a few titles to my post. My apologies.
    IMO the thing to remember is the movie is based on his then girlfriend’s memoir; her onetime version of her truth. Bear in mind she had given Ted’s name into the police tip line herself, but equivocated when the police interviewed her. Liz felt guilty for her suspicions. She was, like many people who encounter sociopaths, made unsure of herself, and which face was the Real Ted.
    I suggest the books by Mr Kevin Sullivan, ‘The Bundy Murders’ ‘The Trail of Ted Bundy’ ‘Ted Bundy’s Murderous Mysteries’ and ‘The Bundy Secrets’. IMO the answers you seek can be found there.
    If you want to watch self serving nonsense, from both ends, there was an interview by Dr James Dobson with Ted, on Death Row, where each sought to blame his murderous acts on moral decline brought about by alcohol and pornography. Fascinating, a word I don’t mean as a compliment.
    A compelling and heroic lady, Ms Carol DaRonch, identified Ted as the man who abducted her in Salt Lake City, had saved her own life, realizing “My God, my parents are never going to know what happened to me.” She recounts the events when she is interviewed in ‘The Ted Bundy Tapes’ documentary, it includes Ted’s confessions, as well as the testimony of other women. Victims are so often disbelieved, Ms DaRonch’s words are clear and compelling, her courage is an inspiration.
    I would recommend ‘The Stranger Beside Me’ by Ms Ann Rule, who, before she was a famous crime writer, was a former Seattle Policewoman thinking this all had to be a mistake. A policewoman, convinced they could spot evil, believed in who she thought Ted was, until she knew he wasn’t. Her book explains in great detail how and why Ted was caught and convicted.
    Ms Rule said in her book that she wasn’t as troubled by people who wrote to her after they watched ‘The Deliberate Stranger’ film, which, like the latest film has talented actors whose job is to tell a story, but she was troubled by those who wept watching interviews with Ted, who thought he ‘wouldn’t have hurt me’. She says the Real Ted is still hurting people, his lies still drawing people in. Beware the Real Ted.
    Those are just a few sources where you can read and hear his confessions, but much more importantly, the words of the people who knew the Real Ted Bundy, and the evidence, forensic, eyewitness, circumstantial, and compelling, that got him the chair.
    EDIT: I’ll add a couple of examples which might not be the ones people expect. His aunt, Julia, waking from a nap, suddenly realizing that she is surrounded by knives - every knife in the kitchen around her in the bed, pointing at her. Standing beside her, smiling, eyes twinkling, is her nephew, Theodore Bundy. He was three.
    The Chevron Card: After Ted Bundy was arrested in Utah, the police tracked the purchases on his gasoline credit card and found a trail of missing women, over several states, it was a roadmap of murder. The hair evidence from Ms DaRonch in his VW Bug. All I’ll add about the teeth identification controversy is this; there are always arguments about science, as time goes on. If the science to identify suspects via dental records is so flawed, then so is dental record identification of unidentified deceased persons.
    As an anthropologist, IMO, that is bloody nonsense. Any science is only as good as the efforts put into it, it’s not techniques I worry about, it’s practitioner competence, Drs Souviron, and Levine (for the People) were absolutely competent, and even the defense expert, Dr DeVore, on cross examination, had to affirm that yes, Ted Bundy’s dental impressions were consistent with having left the bite marks.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  6. Whiskers16

    Whiskers16 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi all, please take any specific case discussions to the relevant thread(s). I am closing this thread.
    Thanks,
    Whiskers
     
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