Found Alive HI - Amanda Eller, 35, Trail near Makawao, Maui, 8 May 2019 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Moxie_McTavish, May 11, 2019.

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  1. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    But there is a big difference between saying she should have had a cell phone and saying it wouldn't have done her any good. I'm not saying she should have had a cell phone. Never said that. I hike without a phone all the time. But a person hiking with no means of navigation, with no supplies, should be mindful of those facts and behave accordingly.
     


  2. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    No doubt that awareness and preparedness are best. No doubt that good people make mistakes. And, some stuff in Amanda's decision-making and power are unknown to us, likely we may never know. We will never know if having a phone would have done any good on day 1 or 2 or 3 before it would have died because we are not reconstructing her movements with her phone and carrier. But, we can all continue to conjecture, I guess. Amanda's ordeal is a cautionary tale for those who wish to take the caution offered.
     
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  3. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    There are so many missing people on here that have been hiking.

    To me, the videos of the trail look like a really managed trail. Plus, when lots of people use a trail, it is really beaten down.

    We know that trails are a popular place for predators. And now we see that even a well traveled trail can become a nightmare.

    What to do? Who knows. A cell phone does not stop a predator. Life is a risk.
     
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  4. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    The facts of Amanda's disappearance are clear.

    She went into the forest for a run, took a break/nap, got confused upon returning, and got further lost.

    She had no phone. She lost her shoes when water washed them away. She fell at some point and broke her tibia. She survived on water and local vegetation. She got herself to a place where she could not maneuver through because of her injuries and lack of footwear.

    She was rescued because her friends and local searchers refused to give up.
     
  5. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    Right. We all make mistakes. Which is why I don't see why it is such a big deal to admit she may have made a mistake somewhere along the line.

    By the way I didn't mean to say I hike without a phone *all* the time. That was a bit of hyperbole. What I meant to say is that I often hike without a phone. Whether I bring it or not depends on how good the trail is, etc.
     
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  6. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with the crime victim analogy. That scenario involves a perpetrator, who is always the primary person responsible for the crime.

    This is more like a single vehicle car accident. If a person had a few drinks, was driving without a seatbelt, was exceeding the speed limit in the rain, with bald tires, and they went off the road and got hurt... would people defend that person and say it was still an accident?

    Of course all of the things that driver were doing are illegal. Amanda did nothing illegal. So that's a big difference. But that now has me thinking... maybe there should be laws about hiking. It's a big problem where I live. SAR is very, very busy.
     
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  7. Stripehaven

    Stripehaven Well-Known Member

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    I really don’t agree with the drunk/irresponsible driver analogy. But I do understand that some posters are trying to point out that different choices might have kept Amanda safer, or led to her being found sooner, and I totally get that. But I feel other posts are hammering her almost as if her choices indicate character failings and that bothers me.
     
  8. missingm

    missingm Well-Known Member

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    No one is doing that. Amanda herself said it was "irresponsible" to leave her phone. In response to people saying the same or less other posters are changing facts, like saying there was no service on her journey, which is absolutely not true. Yet they give no proof of their claims and refuse to acknowledge when given proof that says otherwise.

    No one is hammering Amanda.
     
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  9. Momof4RN

    Momof4RN Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t been on WS that long. I’m just curious does anyone know an approx number of missing people found safe? Does this always happen where people are still arguing a week later about the circumstances surrounding the rescue and wether it was real or not? This is mind blowing to me.
     
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  10. Momof4RN

    Momof4RN Well-Known Member

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    There’s been no further discussion on Noah’s thread since the day after he was found. So I’m assuming had Amanda been found deceased the circumstances and details surrounding her disappearance, real or not, wouldn’t have mattered and the thread would have ended. Wow
     
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  11. Maljako

    Maljako Well-Known Member

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    Most people who are found safe are found quickly and the whole case is also forgotten quickly. It's highly unusual to find someone alive and relatively unharmed after more than two weeks. In those cases where someone is found after being abducted there might not be much ambiguity - there's a perp and a victim. Here we only have one person to tell the story, and the more unusual it is, the more likely someone is to find it unbelivable or at least demanding further scrutiny. (Also, some cases are discussed forever into eternity even though every angle has been exhausted a million times, but those usually involve deceased or permanently missing people.) I think this thread will be quiet in a few weeks, but I certainly will keep thinking of this case simply because of how life-affirming it is to know that hope does not have to be lost, even when all the odds say "no longer alive".
     
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  12. Jinkasaurus

    Jinkasaurus Well-Known Member

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    There are choices that people make that can cause them to become more vulnerable. Examples include: becoming overly intoxicated, going jogging by yourself, working in prostitution, leaving one's doors and windows unlocked, driving without a seat belt, etc.

    99% of the time, people will make those choices and nothing bad happens. But the choices do put them in a more vulnerable position should something go wrong, or if they cross paths with a predatory person.

    I view this case through a similar lens. Amanda made an innocent decision to go into the woods that day. And then she made some choices that increased her vulnerability.

    I believe its possible to have empathy for the ordeal she went through, to be thankful that she was found alive, and to identify choices which increased her vulnerability. Her decisions that increased her chances for survival should also be recognized. It does seem that she was able to maintain a positive mind state, and that likely played a role in her survival.

    There is a podcast called Survival, which features stories of survival.

    They cover a case where two people in a small airplane crash in the Alaska wilderness, in the middle of winter. They ended up surviving for many weeks without food. The podcast discusses the role of mental state in survival situations.

    You can listen to them here: Survival — Parcast or in a podcast app.

    The episodes are titled "Helen Klaben and Ralph Flores"
     
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  13. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    I will very occasionally follow a missing person case very closely as I really enjoy researching things. I've been doing this for many years now, but very occasionally. The discussion following Amanda's rescue is not out of the ordinary at all, given the circumstances. In fact, if you want to see a prime example, search Sherri Papini. She was found alive, over two years ago, and the case is still being discussed in facebook groups. Hannah Anderson would be another prime example, although that one died out after a few weeks or months. You just would not believe how these cases get discussed on facebook groups. It's brutal.
     
  14. Momof4RN

    Momof4RN Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes I remember both those cases very well. Especially Hannah Anderson. Followed that one for awhile just not here on WS or Facebook.
     
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  15. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is certainly a case that I will remember for a long time.

    My favorite moment was this one. How can you watch the reaction of Amanda's family and not be moved? Powerful stuff.

     
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  16. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I think there would not have been the controversy if she had merely thanked everyone and said a few things about how scary her ordeal was.

    I think she was in PTSD mode when she first spoke. Those may have been her thoughts, but I think she would have not said what she did if she was thinking clearly.

    Some of her comments were hurtful .
     
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  17. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    (bbm)

    curious as to which ones
     
  18. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    personally I understand the criticism and have to bite my tongue on these lost hiker threads
    because they happen so often and so many resources are used in finding them
    they should be more responsible and held more accountable IMO instead of writing books and seeking celebrity - BTW I am NOT suggesting Amanda went through this ordeal for fame or anything but she is the master of her own destiny and while I am happy she is safe, I think she should be very contrite
     
  19. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    The most hurtful was the one where she said she felt the energy change after three days. That is when the public employees stopped looking .

    And another issue I will simply say “sweat lodge”
     
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  20. yawningreyhound

    yawningreyhound Well-Known Member

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    I know if I took my cell in it would've been dead in about 6 hours. Doesn't roaming use up battery life, too.

    And I noticed the photos of the regular hiking trail at the most used parking lot vs the pig hunters' access where her car was parked. The pig trails are way less developed, wide or smooth, plus she mentioned the trees being down and realized early in this was a hike not a run. Amanda went to the M reserve frequently but this was the first time she went to the parking area used by the hunters . Early on they did a video of what they were encountering in that area. I think boar/sow trails are more like game trails here on the mainland. You can follow them pretty easily but they have no rhyme or reason.

    FWIW
     
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