HI HI - Amanda Eller, 35, Trail near Makawao, Maui, 8 May 2019

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Moxie_McTavish, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Cardinal47

    Cardinal47 Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the pictures you posted how easy it is to spot the dog with the red coat and how hard to see the two hikers in camouflage.
    Perhaps hikers should consider wearing red when they go into the forest, woods.
     
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  2. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    No, it’s the top of the tire posts that are confusing things. MPD officer who did Q&A stated clearly that it was UNDER the tire.
    https://mauinow.com/2019/05/17/search-for-amanda-eller-highlights-official-timeline-media-qa/
    In the video and also summarized below in the article under Thursday May 9.

    Sarah Haynes said “under” at the first press conference. People keep saying “on top” because that is common, and are not listening to the description made by the police who found and processed the key.
     
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  3. unionrigger1038

    unionrigger1038 Member

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    I was looking at that map of the missing persons. 2014 seems to have been a rough year on the island. Were these ever investigated as crimes or just as missing persons?

    1/10/2014-Astara Evenstan
    1/12/2014-Moreira Mansalve
    2/9/2014-Carly Joan Scott
    2/19/2014-David Janatka
    7/4/2014-John Flavin
     
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  4. K9Enzo

    K9Enzo Well-Known Member

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    I search for ugly bright colors on the clearance rack for this very reason. lol
     
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  5. Bugurl747

    Bugurl747 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand the relevance nor the amount of time being spent chiming in on the location of the key. :eek:

    The minutiae in detail does not matter, IMO
     
  6. Alohaj

    Alohaj Well-Known Member

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    Good questions. I’m no expert, but have lived on Maui for 40 years. As is the case many places on Maui, it is easy for what looks like solid ground to give away into a drop or “Gulch” as we call them.... Maybe best known as a ravine other places. Some of these can easily be more than 150 ft deep. It’s my understanding that these were formed from lava flows from Haleakala crater, so some of them are really deep. You can see them on the road to Hana. Someone posted a picture of a warning sign up in that forest warning exactly about that, to be careful for drop offs.

    I know I have hiked the same places on Maui for years and years and never felt that I totally “knew” them. It’s rain forest, it’s jungle, it’s dense, and in some areas quite challenging. It can also change over time, ( in the same way that beaches erode), so a path that you thought you know could be totally different months or years later. For example there might be new paths from people hiking there, some past ones now overgrown, New vegetation that was introduced and took over the area, etc.

    That might not be true for some of these frequent hunters or lifelong residents, however, they might know a lot of the area much better, and might be in there frequently enough to know the area with a lot of confidence. Some of these pig hunters have been up there with their hunting dogs though searching, and have checked a lot of places, and there have also been rapellers going down into these gulches.

    Regarding her scent, I have seen on the MPD press conference, and in articles, that there was a scent for a little ways into the path that did not stop at her car. I’m sorry I don’t have any links to post on the that, but that is information that has been provided consistently.
     
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  7. Cardinal47

    Cardinal47 Well-Known Member

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    Since there are no silly questions...how do you place a key under a tire without it being seen? I have pondered this every time I see it posted. You can't shove it under and you can't drive over it. I'm truly perplexed. TIA
     
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  8. Alohaj

    Alohaj Well-Known Member

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    I try to remember that everyone has different things that they like to focus on in these forums, and as long as they are respectful of others they have the right to do so. JMO
     
  9. Bugurl747

    Bugurl747 Well-Known Member

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    Bright colors are important in my opinion, no one plans on getting lost or injured.

    There are several variations of this online but per the American Hiking Society, here are the 10 recommended hiking essentials:

    The 10 Essentials of Hiking - American Hiking Society
     
  10. MauiCare

    MauiCare Well-Known Member

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    The Kahakapao loop is kind of the main trail that tourists would be encouraged to use. It’s cleared well enough (though downed trees are common in a forest) and it provides the experience of the place and a good relatively safe hike. Locals who run or walk it would be familiar with the path but probably not what is on either side of it the entire loop.
    If someone needed to pee while hiking around on the main trails they could easily find a little privacy safely with no need for being on a steep hillside.

    So the thing is, she probably didn’t go on the Kahakapao loop. She’d have likely been found quickly if she did. And she parked in the Hunter’s trail lot so the other lot may have even been crowded at noon.

    From what her mother said, Amanda's office used to be in Makawao and she went to the forest a lot. Her boyfriend also noted that it’s a place she frequented. She had the day off; she got there before noon; gate doesn’t get locked until 7pm. She could have carried a hydroflask (and left the bottle that was found in her vehicle) and planned to explore a new place. I guess what I’m trying to say is I think (if she wasn’t abducted) she wasn’t looking to go on the main trails. To answer your questions more, there are steep drop offs, but even not on the main trails it’s easier to find some level safe spot to pee than it is to try to do it by a steep drop off.
    But there are plenty of steep hillsides one could fall down if they were trying to go down them in the first place to head in a certain direction exploring.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  11. Cardinal47

    Cardinal47 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you you explained it quite well. I have never been in a rain forest but can see from your posting how it could certainly change. I'm glad Chris is going over and over the same area and sticking to HIS plan of action. It's hard to stay focused when many are saying do this and do that. I'm so impressed with these searchers.
     
  12. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much, MisTree. I did not click on the map the first time, just read the article.

    I can’t imagine it is hers, or it would be a huge deal, but it’s still interesting there is a sort of cluster of objects that could be related to transporting and hiding something. I’m guessing it is just signs of trail maintenance though.
    I wonder where the 911 call came from, that was from the upper area according to MPD. As in up above the commonly hiked part if I understood them right.
     
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  13. Bugurl747

    Bugurl747 Well-Known Member

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    I understand that but this has already been discussed at length.

    At some point we move on and discuss other aspects of the case, IMO.
     
  14. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    Well, it’s a sleuth page, and attention should be paid to repeating facts properly. Over and over I see theories spun off facts that are not real facts but just someone’s spec or assumption that got repeated and then accepted.

    No offense meant to people who post the speculation. Most will say it is spec or a theory at the time.

    As for the key, if it’s really so common to put it on the tire hidden by the fender, which I believe, then it may be of note that it was under the tire.

    I would never put an electronic key unenclosed on the ground in a rain forest unpaved parking lot, because they are not supposed to get wet.
     
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  15. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and wondered that too.
    As MPD seems to have found it easily, not mentioning a search, having no knowledge at the beginning of her habits —I would guess it was indeed not hard to see it.

    I would also think that the side of the tire facing in to the underneath of the car would be a place that is somewhat hidden to casual view, even if not really under the part of the tire resting on the ground. Or behind it. Not all of the tire is touching the ground, so some of the ground surface is technically under the tire without being buried or weighted down by the tire.
     
  16. tigerteeth

    tigerteeth Well-Known Member

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    Investigators would know that from surveilance video, too, so I wonder if it’s a match if they noted it. Of course it could be a totally different sports bra (or way off from her size) that they still want to track in case of other suspicious activity and since she could technically have changed hers. Must have been collected for evidence. Interesting.
     
  17. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    PS. Analysis of the key hiding is not irrelevant minutiae, nor is the way objects were placed.

    The big question is whether she placed the key and left the items, possibly as her last known acts. Or was she abducted, and if so, was it after the key hiding or before? Or was it staged entirely, and something happened to her elsewhere?

    If even one person had seen her hiking that day, it wouldn’t matter so much, because her actual hiking would be established and the details of her car would not change the established main fact.
     
  18. puakenikeni

    puakenikeni Well-Known Member

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    I have lived in rain forest and on the side of drop offs and gulches. It doesn’t take a lot of exposure or intimate detail of a specific spot to know that there are drops in that type of terrain, and that vegetation on the ground can make a side of a path look like the ground, when it’s not. Also crumbly dirt.

    It’s kind of a rookie mistake to be fooled by that. I think Amanda had way more than enough Maui hiking under her belt to know the dangers. It certainly didn’t take me more than one false step to figure it out.

    AlohaJ’s point that an area or trail you know can change is excellent. It’s just that a frequent hiker on Maui should never be expecting the trail to be a certain way, but would always be watching to see how it is on that day.
     
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  19. Bugurl747

    Bugurl747 Well-Known Member

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    Chris Berquist describes the progression of technology used and outlines search parameters.



    published May 22, 2019
     
  20. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think it might make a difference if we knew exactly where the key was.

    Compare the implications of a key balanced on top of a tire, or pressed neatly under a tire, to one that looks as though it’s been kicked under the car as part of a scuffle.

    Ask people who went hiking with her what she did with her key? Are those habits consistent with how the key was found?

    At this time, I think it’s extremely unlikely that we’ll get that sort of detail, though.
     
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