Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #6

[Mercurydime]

Well, whatever all this "voluminous" evidence is, it was apparently never enough to make an arrest until Dylan Adams started talking last February/March. I just hope that whatever info and/or physical evidence LE gathered as a result of talking with DA is high quality and also "voluminous" in and of itself.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, whatever all this "voluminous" evidence is, it was apparently never enough to make an arrest until Dylan Adams started talking last February/March. I just hope that whatever info and/or physical evidence LE gathered as a result of talking with DA is high quality and also "voluminous" in and of itself.

That is exactly how many cold cases go. It will go unsolved for years and sometimes for decades and then finally someone with knowledge will break the case wide open by telling LE what they know. The passage of time seems to loosen lips that were sealed for a very long time.

But I don't think Dylan is the one that got the ball rolling initially. I think the TBI was already investigating Zach Adams before Dylan even began to talk. Dylan's mom said the night before Zach was arrested is when the TBI had begun talking to Dylan about what he knew about his brother and Holly. I do think once the TBI suspected Zach's involvement they knew Dylan was the weakest link and knew he would eventually get it off of his chest about what happened and by whom.

Since then he has certainly helped the case advance but he is just one part of a large investigation. Imo, there will be many witnesses in the trial besides DA.

IMO

 

[Tugela]

That is exactly how many cold cases go. It will go unsolved for years and sometimes for decades and then finally someone with knowledge will break the case wide open by telling LE what they know. The passage of time seems to loosen lips that were sealed for a very long time.

But I don't think Dylan is the one that got the ball rolling initially. I think the TBI was already investigating Zach Adams before Dylan even began to talk. Dylan's mom said the night before Zach was arrested is when the TBI had begun talking to Dylan about what he knew about his brother and Holly. I do think once the TBI suspected Zach's involvement they knew Dylan was the weakest link and knew he would eventually get it off of his chest about what happened and by whom.

Since then he has certainly helped the case advance but he is just one part of a large investigation. Imo, there will be many witnesses in the trial besides DA.

IMO

He was already facing other charges when they talked to him, so it would have been mediated by a lawyer, and there would have been some sort of agreement. Most likely it had all been negotiated before he spoke to them, so as soon as he made his statements the warrants were prepared and signed off on. Everything else happened after he talked, so whatever he told them was responsible for the subsequent arrests and search warrants. It doesn't take long to get a warrant, all they would need to do is find a judge to sign it and that isn't hard to do.

There won't be any significant direct witnesses other than D and S.

 

[Tugela]

I understand and respect that.

Personally, I do believe DA Stowe. He is the new man on the block and I find him very honest. He is not going to say something he knows he cant backup. He knows he is going to prove his worth to the citizens who elected him by presenting a case chocked with voluminous amounts of evidence proving guilt.

Other cases doesn't really make me lose faith in all cases. Each case is totally individual from each other and so are the DAs who are over the cases.

Of course he is going to say that there is "voluminous evidence" supporting his allegations, they all do that. It is not as though he would say they are going to proceed with flimsy evidence. In the end we will only find out in trial, or can infer it if they suddenly drop the charges.

At some point in the process they are going to have to decide if they can proceed further with what they have. At the moment they are stalling in the expectation of finding more evidence IMO, but if that does not happen then I think they are going to have to be doing some serious face saving. if we look at what is going on now, and in the last few months, it is pretty clear to me that they are desperately looking for something to build a story with, and not really finding it.

 

[runningwater]

If LE found strands of her hair...would any drugs they gave her show up in the hair under analysis...or would too much time have gone by? I think they did drug her like the rumors say...they are animals, they have no souls.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'll address this one more time, as you seem to keep replying (and replying again) to something I am not saying.

I didn't state there isn't evidence. Nor did I state that there aren't volumes of evidence.

All I have noted is that LE (new, old, here, there) is choosing to tell us of a large quantity, and to keep in mind that quantity and quality are different concepts. Does that mean there's something they are hiding as to the quality, or lack thereof? Not necessarily. But, from what they said, we just don't know either way regarding whether what they truly have is worth more than a bucket (or, in this case, many buckets) of warm spit at trial. Hopefully the answer is yes.

This could apply to every case we discuss before a trial is held since what evidence has been collected is never revealed. Unless we get a glimpse of some of it during a PH or BH we are not privy to the evidence. However; when a trial is held we see the evidence was overwhelming against the defendants even though some seemed to think repetitiously it was going to be a weak case. So trying to diminish the evidence they have in this particular case isn't anything new and is rather commonplace.

The point is DA Stowe was proceeding to trial even without a body so therefore; it is logical to believe the evidence they have is quality evidence which also can be in large quantities was well. Quantity and Quality are not counter opposing. It isn't an either or for it certainly can be both and more often than not we learn the DAs had massive amounts of evidence against the defendants, imo.

I don't think this case will be any different. I don't think anyone truly believes that DA Stowe is going to stick his neck and political career out on the chopping block and bring a weak case on the most high profile case in Tennessee's history.

I just went back and read the timeline again after ZAs arrest and it is amazing the strides the TBI has made in the last 8 months. It is refreshing to know that they continue to work hard on this case to make sure everyone involved will be held accountable.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If LE found strands of her hair...would any drugs they gave her show up in the hair under analysis...or would too much time have gone by? I think they did drug her like the rumors say...they are animals, they have no souls.

Yes, they would be able to detect that I think. They have been able to find drugs from the hair of corpses that were 100s of years old.

The only thing is for it to get into the hair I think she would have had to be drugged for longer than one day. I have read though that anthropologists have been able to detect drugs before in skeletonized corpses but I would think that was someone who had taken drugs for a very long time.

I can see these animals wanting to shoot Holly up with meth as another way to degrade her by making her into a meth user just like them. Often suspects like this enjoy destroying a good person with moral character by forcing them to do something they would never do if they had a choice.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Of course he is going to say that there is "voluminous evidence" supporting his allegations, they all do that. It is not as though he would say they are going to proceed with flimsy evidence. In the end we will only find out in trial, or can infer it if they suddenly drop the charges.

At some point in the process they are going to have to decide if they can proceed further with what they have. At the moment they are stalling in the expectation of finding more evidence IMO, but if that does not happen then I think they are going to have to be doing some serious face saving. if we look at what is going on now, and in the last few months, it is pretty clear to me that they are desperately looking for something to build a story with, and not really finding it.

Why do you say that? I have seen nothing in the past few months showing that DA Stowe is unsure about the two main suspects he is going to bring to trial. In fact when it comes to the main two I see nothing but confidence from Stowe. When has he waffled concerning ZA&JA?

You say 'desperation' and I see a team totally 'committed.' That is what ongoing investigations do and they would be remiss in their duties if they did not bring all to justice if they had any involvement. And really to round up this many suspects since Feb. of this year is outstanding investigative work.

In the end no matter how long the investigation takes all involved will be arrested and charged or charged with additional charges. This investigation has been continuously fluid especially since ZAs arrest. That is the way investigations go. LE goes where the evidence leads them and we can see by the arrests the evidence is slowly but surely coming right back to the ones who have been indicted now. It isn't over by a long shot. Matt Stowe knows there are others out there and so does the TBI so they continue to gather evidence as they should.

They have made amazing strides in the past several months. It shows no grass is growing under the TBIs feet as they continue to investigate.. just like they promised they were going to do. I really don't care how long it takes them to find the evidence as long as everyone involved is held accountable.

They have indicted several involved now in the past few months and only dropped the charges against MP and DA because the federal case takes priority. Once the federal charges are resolved one way or the other the DA will recharge both defendants on the original charges.

 

[shefner]

Regardless of charges, I thought the story being put out by TBI was that according to their female witness who testified under oath on the matter, Jeff P was in possession of a video that showed Holly bound and being forcibly raped by ZA while Mark P could be heard on the tape and was alleged to have been the videographer of the disgusting party. My point being, if that was true and it can somehow be proven, I would think there would be applicable charges for MP.

You are right tlcya....I think SteveS is right. I am getting JP and MP confused. My whole life has been consumed by Ebola news! Its affecting my brain. Sorry....

 

[maskedwoman]

If the guy has an IQ of 70, and has been squirreling around with all his allegations for the past year or so before these current charges, the defence attorney is going to have a field day on cross if he is ever used as a witness.

This is just a huge mess IMO. They sure as hell better have corroboration, or it is going to get seriously ugly in court for the prosecution if they take it to trial.

If it's widely known that Dylan has "issues", LE will know that. LE and the DA clearly want to put these guys away and have it stick. I don't think these experienced professionals are stupid enough to allege anything based solely on Dylan's testimony. I'm very confident they will bolster everything he says with corroborating evidence and/or testimony if at all possible.

 

[tlcya]

It's widely known that Dylan has "issues". LE and the DA clearly want to put these guys away and have it stick. I don't think these experienced professionals are stupid enough to allege anything based solely on Dylan's testimony. I'm very confident they will bolster everything he says with corroborating evidence and/or testimony if at all possible.

I agree, even if those issues are not as serious as some family members have reported, the fact that the public perception is that there are issues is enough I think to cause LE to want to make sure anything he is telling them that they plan to use is independently corroborated.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's widely known that Dylan has "issues". LE and the DA clearly want to put these guys away and have it stick. I don't think these experienced professionals are stupid enough to allege anything based solely on Dylan's testimony. I'm very confident they will bolster everything he says with corroborating evidence and/or testimony if at all possible.

ITA!

It will be just like we see in every trial that has eye witnesses in it. What they testify to is always backed up by other evidence that supports what they testify to and this one will be the same.

I think Dylan's issues are being overblown by his family members and for a reason. I read 'over there' that he graduated high school.

If he truly was mentally challenged he would be deemed incompetent to stand trial on the federal gun charges that faces him. His PD would have had a mental health expert prove he was mentally challenged and unable to stand trial.

Dylan's so called mental issues is nothing more than a convenient red herring.

IMO

 

[Steleheart]

ITA!

It will be just like we see in every trial that has eye witnesses in it. What they testify to is always backed up by other evidence that supports what they testify to and this one will be the same.

I think Dylan's issues are being overblown by his family members and for a reason. I read 'over there' that he graduated high school.

If he truly was mentally challenged he would be deemed incompetent to stand trial on the federal gun charges that faces him. His PD would have had a mental health expert prove he was mentally challenged and unable to stand trial.

Dylan's so called mental issues is nothing more than a convenient red herring.

IMO

I agree with these assessments of DA. IMO it is more than likely that he has been bullied his whole life by his brother; ie, the jailhouse threat. He likely was always afraid of him and called names relating to his "mental capacity". IMO Since his mother is also afraid of ZA (since he shot her) she likely sides with him making DA feel further abused.
Since LE has been protecting him (in protective custody) and proved it by charging ZA after the threat, he has been more forthcoming with info.
I agree that the family is exaggerating his low mental capacity and IMO 'the reason' is not to protect Dylan, but to discredit him in order to protect ZA - who scares everyone.


:cow:

 

[Tugela]

This could apply to every case we discuss before a trial is held since what evidence has been collected is never revealed. Unless we get a glimpse of some of it during a PH or BH we are not privy to the evidence. However; when a trial is held we see the evidence was overwhelming against the defendants even though some seemed to think repetitiously it was going to be a weak case. So trying to diminish the evidence they have in this particular case isn't anything new and is rather commonplace.

The point is DA Stowe was proceeding to trial even without a body so therefore; it is logical to believe the evidence they have is quality evidence which also can be in large quantities was well. Quantity and Quality are not counter opposing. It isn't an either or for it certainly can be both and more often than not we learn the DAs had massive amounts of evidence against the defendants, imo.

I don't think this case will be any different. I don't think anyone truly believes that DA Stowe is going to stick his neck and political career out on the chopping block and bring a weak case on the most high profile case in Tennessee's history.

I just went back and read the timeline again after ZAs arrest and it is amazing the strides the TBI has made in the last 8 months. It is refreshing to know that they continue to work hard on this case to make sure everyone involved will be held accountable.

Charges have been brought in other cases without a body and based on jailhouse informant allegations, so it is not as though this sort of thing doesn't happen.

 

[Tugela]

Yes, they would be able to detect that I think. They have been able to find drugs from the hair of corpses that were 100s of years old.

The only thing is for it to get into the hair I think she would have had to be drugged for longer than one day. I have read though that anthropologists have been able to detect drugs before in skeletonized corpses but I would think that was someone who had taken drugs for a very long time.

I can see these animals wanting to shoot Holly up with meth as another way to degrade her by making her into a meth user just like them. Often suspects like this enjoy destroying a good person with moral character by forcing them to do something they would never do if they had a choice.

Probably not. Drugs are incorporated into your hair as it grows, if she was drugged and then killed soon after, there would be no time for that to happen since hair grows at a slow rate.

Usually those sorts of analysis are useful in situations of chronic use, not one time use.

 

[Tugela]

If it's widely known that Dylan has "issues", LE will know that. LE and the DA clearly want to put these guys away and have it stick. I don't think these experienced professionals are stupid enough to allege anything based solely on Dylan's testimony. I'm very confident they will bolster everything he says with corroborating evidence and/or testimony if at all possible.

There are plenty of cases where "experienced professionals" make allegations solely on the basis of the testimony of some witness. In most cases where there is a wrongful conviction, invariably much of the evidence used against the convicted is based on flawed witness testimony. It is not uncommon for LE and prosecutors to use dubious tactics and logic to get a conviction.

If there is corroboration then I want to see it. I am not going to assume it is there simply because someone was arrested.

 

[Tugela]

Why do you say that? I have seen nothing in the past few months showing that DA Stowe is unsure about the two main suspects he is going to bring to trial. In fact when it comes to the main two I see nothing but confidence from Stowe. When has he waffled concerning ZA&JA?

You say 'desperation' and I see a team totally 'committed.' That is what ongoing investigations do and they would be remiss in their duties if they did not bring all to justice if they had any involvement. And really to round up this many suspects since Feb. of this year is outstanding investigative work.

In the end no matter how long the investigation takes all involved will be arrested and charged or charged with additional charges. This investigation has been continuously fluid especially since ZAs arrest. That is the way investigations go. LE goes where the evidence leads them and we can see by the arrests the evidence is slowly but surely coming right back to the ones who have been indicted now. It isn't over by a long shot. Matt Stowe knows there are others out there and so does the TBI so they continue to gather evidence as they should.

They have made amazing strides in the past several months. It shows no grass is growing under the TBIs feet as they continue to investigate.. just like they promised they were going to do. I really don't care how long it takes them to find the evidence as long as everyone involved is held accountable.

They have indicted several involved now in the past few months and only dropped the charges against MP and DA because the federal case takes priority. Once the federal charges are resolved one way or the other the DA will recharge both defendants on the original charges.

IMO that is nonsense. Even though DA is facing federal charges, he is still facing the rape charges. If your argument is correct then they would have dropped those as well, but they didn't. Also, they were well aware that MP was already in custody on the federal charges when they initially charged him in connection with the mythical video. So, if the federal charges were going to take precedent preventing them from continuing, they would have known that then, it would not have suddenly been discovered now (unless they are totally incompetent). It is pretty obvious that these minor charges they have been making have been tactical, with little chance of actually resulting in a conviction. They know they wont get a conviction, but what these charges do is allow the prosecution to form an opinion of what happened in the case in the general public's mind without actually releasing actual information. That is valuable when it comes to trial, especially if their evidence is weak, because by then it may be common belief in the community that the accused are guilty, and it becomes much easier to get a conviction on the main charges.

The charges against MP and DA that were dropped were probably dropped because of lack of evidence, no matter what kind of spin the district attorney would like to put on it. They most likely withdrew the charges because they knew that those particular ones were going to be dismissed quickly, and a dismissal would challenge the credibility of the other allegations they were making. It is just strategic positioning so that they can go into a trial with the public conditioned to believing that the accused are probably guilty before the trial starts.

When the main case does go to trial, the testimony of people like D and S are going to be critical, any physical evidence they have collected is more likely to be corroborative in nature rather than definitive. It is the allegations of D and S that connect the other two to the case, so if D and S are impeachable due to physical evidence not supporting what they are saying, the trial is probably going to result in a dismissal. The fact that they are charging, or threatening to charge, these guys AFTER they have cooperated tells me that whatever they were telling LE was not being corroborated by whatever physical evidence they were collecting or trying to collect. That means that their case is probably very weak at the moment, not very strong. The new charges (and earlier threats to revoke immunity) are an attempt to intimidate these guys into coming up with an account that can somehow be corroborated, but without saying so explicitly since that would constitute witness tampering. IMO it is a sort of "wink wink nudge nudge .....say what we want you to say or go to jail" sort of thing.

My guess is that the new charges against DA probably came about during this process where DA was trying to figure out what he could tell them that would be what they wanted (they can't tell him directly what they want him to say - he has to come up with it himself). So he would have been telling them a bunch of stuff, true or not, but some of which ended up implicating him rather than the other two.

 

[ThoughtFox]

When the main case does go to trial, the testimony of people like D and S are going to be critical, any physical evidence they have collected is more likely to be corroborative in nature rather than definitive. It is the allegations of D and S that connect the other two to the case, so if D and S are impeachable due to physical evidence not supporting what they are saying, the trial is probably going to result in a dismissal. The fact that they are charging, or threatening to charge, these guys AFTER they have cooperated tells me that whatever they were telling LE was not being corroborated by whatever physical evidence they were collecting or trying to collect. That means that their case is probably very weak at the moment, not very strong. The new charges (and earlier threats to revoke immunity) are an attempt to intimidate these guys into coming up with an account that can somehow be corroborated, but without saying so explicitly since that would constitute witness tampering. IMO it is a sort of "wink wink nudge nudge .....say what we want you to say or go to jail" sort of thing.

My guess is that the new charges against DA probably came about during this process where DA was trying to figure out what he could tell them that would be what they wanted (they can't tell him directly what they want him to say - he has to come up with it himself). So he would have been telling them a bunch of stuff, true or not, but some of which ended up implicating him rather than the other two.

I honestly couldn't disagree more. While there may be some maneuvering by both the DA and these criminals, I think the new evidence found in the woods contradicted the story Dylan had told them before which is why the Sheriff and the DA both said they were "going after" another arrest, and it turned out to be Dylan.

LE and the District Attorney doesn't need any of these guys to "corroborate" evidence anymore, because they HAVE the evidence. Nothing is better than finding the body in a case like this, and the Ginseng-guy witness (who will be part of the trial) said there was also a bucket and something was in it, but he couldn't say what it was. I think they have DNA from Dylan, hair, clothing, something - which is why he confessed to the rape, but perhaps not the murder.

Maybe what they told Dylan was that he will be charged with the lesser sentence of rape to spare himself from the Death Penalty, while they throw the book at the other two. I think it's as simple as that.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO that is nonsense. Even though DA is facing federal charges, he is still facing the rape charges. If your argument is correct then they would have dropped those as well, but they didn't. Also, they were well aware that MP was already in custody on the federal charges when they initially charged him in connection with the mythical video. So, if the federal charges were going to take precedent preventing them from continuing, they would have known that then, it would not have suddenly been discovered now (unless they are totally incompetent). It is pretty obvious that these minor charges they have been making have been tactical, with little chance of actually resulting in a conviction. They know they wont get a conviction, but what these charges do is allow the prosecution to form an opinion of what happened in the case in the general public's mind without actually releasing actual information. That is valuable when it comes to trial, especially if their evidence is weak, because by then it may be common belief in the community that the accused are guilty, and it becomes much easier to get a conviction on the main charges.

The charges against MP and DA that were dropped were probably dropped because of lack of evidence, no matter what kind of spin the district attorney would like to put on it. They most likely withdrew the charges because they knew that those particular ones were going to be dismissed quickly, and a dismissal would challenge the credibility of the other allegations they were making. It is just strategic positioning so that they can go into a trial with the public conditioned to believing that the accused are probably guilty before the trial starts.

When the main case does go to trial, the testimony of people like D and S are going to be critical, any physical evidence they have collected is more likely to be corroborative in nature rather than definitive. It is the allegations of D and S that connect the other two to the case, so if D and S are impeachable due to physical evidence not supporting what they are saying, the trial is probably going to result in a dismissal. The fact that they are charging, or threatening to charge, these guys AFTER they have cooperated tells me that whatever they were telling LE was not being corroborated by whatever physical evidence they were collecting or trying to collect. That means that their case is probably very weak at the moment, not very strong. The new charges (and earlier threats to revoke immunity) are an attempt to intimidate these guys into coming up with an account that can somehow be corroborated, but without saying so explicitly since that would constitute witness tampering. IMO it is a sort of "wink wink nudge nudge .....say what we want you to say or go to jail" sort of thing.

My guess is that the new charges against DA probably came about during this process where DA was trying to figure out what he could tell them that would be what they wanted (they can't tell him directly what they want him to say - he has to come up with it himself). So he would have been telling them a bunch of stuff, true or not, but some of which ended up implicating him rather than the other two.

There is simply no evidence or information supporting what you have said. None.

The only charges they have dismissed at this time are the two who already have pending federal gun charges. Often the feds will allow a state case to go forward first and its obvious the Feds don't want to do that in this particular case. The feds did allow the state case to go forward on Joe Duncan and then tried him after his conviction in Idaho but its the feds call.

It is very noticeable that JPs charges were not dropped.

And the others have been in jail on charges for months and Stowe hasn't budged on any of those charges nor will he.

IMO

 

[SteveS]

Why do you say that? I have seen nothing in the past few months showing that DA Stowe is unsure about the two main suspects he is going to bring to trial. In fact when it comes to the main two I see nothing but confidence from Stowe. When has he waffled concerning ZA&JA?

"I have seen nothing in the past few months showing..."....The reality is, you see and hear only what the DA has wanted you to see and hear, and assume positives for all that they don't want you to see and hear. So how could you see anything except a wonderful case with great evidence?

You've read an awful lot into the posturing by DA Stowe. I do not. You think the outward spin he offers automatically means that's how he TRULY feels about the case. I do not.

As much as I want him to have a great case against whoever did this, this is not a situation where he has any freedom. He absolutely cannot drop these charges at this point, due to political and community issues, so he has to live with whatever has been handed down to him and try to make it work. Maybe in his mind he's trying to put the finishing touches on a slam dunk of a case, or maybe he's trying to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, but either way he's going to tell the world that he has the right guys with the right evidence, because that's what has to be said right now.

I take it with a grain of salt. It comes down to whether they have evidence, and every DA/atty will claim they have the goods to win before we get to trial and reality sets in. Talk is cheap.