How many hours?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by icedtea4me, Dec 16, 2006.

?

How many hours?

  1. 4 hours

    55.0%
  2. 7 hours

    45.0%
  1. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    From the 1998 A&E documentary The Ramseys vs The Media -

    John Ramsey: The American public has been led to believe that we went to bed that night on Christmas, brutally beat JonBenet, sexually molested her, strangled her, woke up the next morning, wrote a three-page ransom note,called the police, sat around the house for four hours then I went down and discovered her body - Then was able to act distraught.

    thewebsafe.tripod.com/09281998aedocumentary.htm


    According to John's statement, how many hours had elapsed between the time the police were called and his discovering JonBenet's body in the basement?


    -Tea
     
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  3. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    He said four hours, so that is the number for which I voted.


    -Tea
     
  4. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    I see there have been two votes placed for "seven hours", yet I don't see the word "seven" in John Ramsey's statement. Maybe it's that I'm not seeing it, like it's in some kind of invisible type. Could someone help me out here and show me where "seven" is in what John said?


    -Tea
     
  5. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    7 isn't what he said, but it's what really happened, which I assume is the point of this.
     
  6. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    He said he made a trip down to the basement alone that morning, did he not, Chrishope?


    -Tea
     
  7. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    Yes, I believe he did. He also told Andrew that JB had been found at 11.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave New Member

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    I think he's catching on, folks!
     
  9. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    In DOI, JR says around 10am he decided to go down to the basement and check the window he broke when he was locked out,as he thought that area needed to be looked at.
    I'm having a hard time beleiving that JR wasn't involved in the cover-up as well,but it does fit that when no call from the KN came by 10am,he thought the whole thing suspect and decided to check the house,esp the basement,more thoroughly.That time fits in with his comment as well,about finding the body 4 hrs after calling police.
     
  10. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    Except that he didn't find her at 10 or even 11, as he'd told AR. (At least as far as we know) He found her a few minutes after 1pm. So it doesn't seem to fit very well. The only way it might fit is if you think PR was solely responsible for JB's death, and JR believed it was a kidnapping until he found the body at 10 or 11, during his solo trip to the basement. The only reason for him not to tell police at that point was that he might have realized PR did it, and needed more time to think about how to deal with the situation.
     
  11. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    Stewart Long said that John Ramsey told him and JAR that he had discovered JonBenet's body around 11 am.

    That combined with his "four hours" comment leads me to believe that "four hours" is correct, and not seven at all.
     
  12. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    I think he knew way before 10 or 11 am that there was no kidnapper. John Ramsey never behaved as if he thought that RN was real - having Patsy call police without mentioning the threat to their daughter's life, inviting other friends over when the note said NOT to talk to anyone, allowing Burke to leave the house and his personal protective watch...he had to know before the receiver ever left the telephone base that JonBenet had not been kidnapped, or I really don't think he would have gone along with any of that. And with his shirt fibers on her pubic area and in her underwear, he had to know she was dead in the basement.
     
  13. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    Oh I agree. I think he knew there was no kidnapper right from the time they didn't put JB to bed to the time they killed her.
     
  14. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    I was thinking about the 11am conv. w/ Stewart as well.
     
  15. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    Right,that's why I say it fits w/ what JR says in DOI,but it doesn't fit with the fact I think he was involved in the cover-up,if not more.
    In retrospect,I wonder if he made that (so-called?) slip-up on purpose,in order to fit in with what Stewart heard him saying about finding the body sooner than 1pm?That would get him off the hook in being involved w. the actual murder,altho not off the hook with all of the coverup,but only with what happened after finding the body.
     
  16. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    Chrishope,

    icedtea4me is asking According to John's statement which is a follow the dots kind of question.


    Actually JonBenet may have been placed onto a bed after being killed, her post mortem posture is that of a child lying down on something not bundled or wrapped in anything since her arms are extended.

    From memory her head blow was applied from behind, so thats not kind of accidental, this is intentional.

    She was asphyxiated from the front, not from behind, how many people think Jonbenet was asphyxiated by the garrote?

    She has multiple contusions and abrasions around her face and back, again difficult to see this arising as the consequence of some accident?

    So superficially JonBenet was manually strangled, possibly at the same time of the strangulation, JonBenet's assailant repeatedly bashed her head and face against some household object, until she lost consciousness?

    But the forensic evidence suggests the head bash and asphyxiation were separate events, some suggest the head bash was meant to make certain JonBenet was dead, others that it was staging to meant to complicate the evidence?

    Johns statements to the police regarding his movements after he arrived back from the White's tell you he knew about JonBenet's death prior to 6AM Dec 26th, how else can they synchronise their statements, only Burke slips up and tells us JonBenet walked into the house.

    John knows that the rest of the extended Ramsey family may not entirely buy his version of events, he knows they can ask difficult questions that the BPD cannot, so to forestall some questioning, he may have elected to suggest he discovered JonBenet's body earlier.

    Curiously I cannot speculate that John did it and after finding JonBenet decided to stage a violent intruder homicide complete with duct-tape, garrote, and wrist ties etc, because Patsy and her matching fibers were upstairs at the alleged time of John discovering JonBenet's corpse.

    No, somebody wanted JonBenet dead, since corpses do not speak its that simple!


    .
     
  17. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    That's what I was going by...JR's statement,and wondering if he intentionally said that,in order to throw suspicion off himself for the actual murder itself.
    I meant to ask this earlier,but do you(UK) (or anyone else for that matter) think this murder was planned? I agree that it seems intentional;I've always thought so..one look at that huge crack and hole in JB's skull seems no accident to me.No way.
    I ask about planned b/c of the way the R's behaved after the murder ..some of it seems similar to what they did beforehand..like maybe they went to the White's just to be seen with JB that evening,(and to throw suspicion onto them) ..and stopped by to drop off the baskets on the way home,again for the same reason.And what I find most suspect is they told the bigger kids to meet with them *after xmas.So it seems they didn't want them there then,on purpose,for some sinister reason?(I don't beleive JB would have been killed then if the big kids and the finance had been there..too many witnesses).Since JR was pretending to be such a family man,if that were true then it seems he would have wanted them all there on xmas day,esp to welcome the new fiance into the family.
    As well as I recall PR saying they 'even had tickets to go on disney's big red boat'. (So what,that doesn't mean they didn't kill her).Maybe that was done on purpose,to make it appear they had plans?I'm suspect b/c in DOI,JR comments that "PR was even getting outfits ready for a pageant in Jan." ..as if he felt the need to show they had future plans w. JB,which seemed odd to me..of course they would,if they didnt plan to kill her.
    IOW,the whole xmas scenerio ,and maybe even the days b/f it(or after the 23rd?,re: 911 call made then),could have been a ruse? Maybe someone(s) wanted to silence JB forever and it was planned?
    Also...since the scream was heard coming from the basement,do you think she was slammed against a hard surface there and if so..what?
    The most logical scenerio I can think of that fits is JB was taken to the basement,molested there,and either or both parents killed her after that.(Although I think some of the assualt was later staged w. the paintbrush handle, to cover for past abuse).Thx for any comments,you're certainly one of the most knowledgeable here !
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    JMO8778,

    Yes JonBenet's death appears deliberate and intentional, whether it was premeditated is up for debate.

    Current forensic science can tell you from what angle a skull was fractured, since prior theories have been disconfirmed by research conducted at the Body Farm where they research this subject using donated corpses.

    And JonBenet's skull fracture appears to have been applied from behind with a slight angle to the initial impact, the fissures aparently can radiate outwards then back to the point of impact, causing anterior fissures, but dont quote me on this.

    To me it seems her head fracture and asphyxiation were two separate events, both intending to make sure she was killed, dead, and the staging was applied to mask this?

    JonBenet was not killed in the basement, thats why she was deposited down there and dressed to appear as if she had been abducted from her bed. All the evidence points to Patsy as the wine-cellar stager, so why would Patsy sexually assault JonBenet, when at this stage it was a kidnap-ransom that was being setup?

    The other assumption you can make is that there may have been a prior staging that incorporated a sexual assault? But how does that work given there is no garrote, or size-12 underwear, who enters a millionaires house in the middle of the night to strangle and fracture the skull of a 6-year old simply to engage in some digital penetration quoting Coroner Meyer?

    Why did she need cleaned up, and wiped down, why were her size-6 pants removed, what sexual psychopath bothers to remove her underwear as a trophy, and is then concerned enough to redress her in size-12 pants?

    It appears as if she was sexually assaulted first then cleaned up, and redressed to hide this, with Patsy possibly inserting the paintbrush to explain away the acute injury? Coroner Meyer will know if the missing piece of the paintbrush handle was left inside JonBenet?

    I doubt she was sexually abused in the basement, the whole house was available for this purpose, e.g. the den, JR's bedroom etc. But JonBenet fits the profile of child being sexually abused, her pageant appearances could simply have been part and parcel of her grooming and induction into adult sexual behaviour.

    The pageants may have fulfilled a psychological need in both parents, Patsy's has been well documented, less so has JR's, but it is worth noting that JonBenet's pageant role models will have been a prior generations little girl star's, or potential fantasy material for male pedophiles from that generation. In short who taught JonBenet her sexualized routines and were they incorporated into her sexual abuse?

    There are private photographs of JonBenet which have not been made public, these may show JonBenet dressed in her pageant clothing, posing in a suggestive manner, why else the questioning or the search for further material in both of the Ramsey households? The photographing of children in this manner is something pedophiles habitually undertake.

    Was JonBenet's death planned, its unlikely since its execution was a mess, to be blunt.

    But I would suggest she was being sexually abused prior to her death, possibly incorporating her to be dressed up in pageant mode, she may have been taped or photographed, hence the missing tapes? So was JonBenet fed the pineapple literally as a sweetner prior to her abuse, did a sexual rage overtake her killer, because JonBenet found the courage to say no?



    .
     
  19. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    Right, that's why I voted 4 hours - the question was about JR's statement. I just wanted to flesh out where the thread was going.
     
  20. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    Or purely coincidental. Other little girls, who have suffered no sexual abuse have also participated in these pagents.

    If it were planned well in advance, I doubt the body would have been found in the house. The existance of the RN, along with the body, suggests the RN was an afterthought. They either didn't know how to go about dumping the body, or couldn't bring themselves to do it.
     
  21. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    My guess is it was not pre-planned. At least not very far ahead. It was, as UKGuy said, a mess. The scenario is a mess too. By scenario I mean a RN and a body both in the same house. The only way I see to make sense of it (RN +body) is an intruder or the Rs did it but hadn't planned it, so needed to stage the sloppy scenario ? There is not of course enough credible evidence to believe the IDI version, and plenty of evidence for the RDI version. Lack of planning meant that before they could fully realize the result of their actions, they had a dead body and didn't know what to do with it ?
     

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