How Wal-Mart could play into this.........

[gitana1]

I posted a similar posting in a wrong place. I delete my posting and hope this is better- Sorry Mods, if I am wrong again.......

BJB, I respect your postings, and look forward to your input.

The sentence from the FBI, of an impression of a small child in a FETAL position, really keeps ringing in my ears. So I decided to back up to there and rethink some of this....along with the TJ's story about Wal-mart on the day Caylee died.....
I am open to any and all opinions, thoughts, info, or debunking, as to try and make sense of this..

First- If Caylee was in a fetal position in the trunk, with tape over her mouth and wrapped around her little skull, wouldn't that mean:

1) Caylee was alive when place in the trunk? She went into a fetal position out of fear, (maybe, from being gagged and placed into a dark trunk?
2) A dead child would not go into a fetal position.
3) Caylee was alive when placed it the trunk?
Next-
Second- Wy would one tape Caylee's mouth, and wrap the tape around her skull?
1) I don't buy into keeping bugs out of her mouth. The murderer didn't care about the poor child, one iota.
2) It has to be to keep her from screaming or crying out and taking a chance of passerbyers from hearing her, in the trunk.
3) That's why several pieces were used and wrapped around the skull, so it wouldn't come off. Therefore, the taping was done while the child was alive, and done deliberately out of selfishness, and hatefulness. Also- it would not have been done in doors(like at the A's). It would have been outdoors
Third-
Did Caylee die-
a) from suffocation from the heat in the trunk?
b) from suffocation from the tape covering her nose and mouth?
c) from chloroform?
d) from an injection (from a needle found in a bottle at the scene)?
e) from strangulation? *=(Out of sheer anger and being inconvienced)

4) JT claims KC was in a foul mood when leaving Wal-Mart- Did KC lose total control and beat Caylee so badly that she couldn't let anyone see the condition the child was in, and decide it was best to get rid of her?

Snipped for space.
I really think the evidence shows casey planned this for months. I don't think she got angry and blew her stack. The computer searches for chloroform, missing kids, neck breaking, then the traces of chloroform in trunk, all point to a premeditated killing. casey felt trapped by Caylee and jealous of her. She wanted to get rid of her. She planned and when the time was "right" she killed her.
How did she do it? The cadaver dog hits near the pool and the backyard led me to believe she may have chloroformed Caylee and then either smothered or drowned her in the backyard. Any of the three could have killed her, obviously. Possibly, she chloroformed Caylee until she passed out and then wrapped duct tape around her mouth and nose to finish the job or make sure it stayed finished. Maybe she wrapped tape around her mouth to keep her quiet and then put chloroform in front of her nose until she died. I don't know. But I think it was not that fast and I know it took a stone cold evil heart to do such a thing.

 

[Mystic]

The info on the duct tape is so important- other pieces being found especially.
I wondered why Caylee didn't pull the tape off her mouth, unless her hands were bound as well. If she was unconscious or dead then there would have been no need to bind her mouth or hands. She had to have been alive when this was done, which would indicate, premeditated.

I'm thinking she wouldn't have been able to pull that duct tape off even if her hands were not bound. And then closed in the trunk, she'd be fighting for air, panicking and trying to pull that dam tape off :furious: she wouldn't have managed it at all. I can't stand imagining this, rips your heart out.

 

[Mystic]

BBM

I'd go along with KC hoping she could drop Caylee off with Cindy at Gentiva, then when she couldn't get in touch with Cindy, deciding kill time at Wal-mart and THEN after doing away with Caylee, heading to Tony's except for...there were no shoes at the remains site and no child's shoes were found in KC's car. You can't walk outside on asphalt or asphalt in bare feet in Florida in the summer. KC was not videotaped in Blockbuster wearing the clothes that she was described being seen in in Wal-mart either.

if there were shoes in the trunk.. CA cleaned it and likely wouldn't have reported that specific fact. Of course then Caylee's shoes would all be accounted for. just a thought

 

[mitzi]

Having worked in Wal~Mart's Loss Prevention (before it was called asset protection) back a number of years ago. I can say a couple of things. Now I've never been to this particular store but Wal~Mart being what it is tries to keep their stores pretty standard.

Most of the exterior doors have camera's built into the frame of the door. Not to mention all the cameras placed through out the store. In most stores the only places not monitored are inside the bathroom and inside the dressing rooms other then that you can pretty much be tracked through every inch of the store (customer and employee areas). They also have multiple camera's built on the roof looking out into the parking lot and also located on the poles in the parking lot. A number of years ago Wal~Mart made it policy to place cameras out in the parking lot because customers were being robbed and Wal~Mart was getting bad press for not having camera's out there.

Also with the newer digital systems they can easily pull up the date and time and then track Casey through the store. With the old analog CCTV system it was very hard to do this. Also the new digital system stays recorded longer. With the old analog cctv we recorded over the tapes every 30 days. Most stores in the company have been remodeled in the last 5 years so there shouldn't be to many stores that don't have digital systems now. Wal-Mart requires a remodel of all stores with in 5 to 10 years of their last remodel.

This tracking means if Casey bought anything they could visually identify what that item was. They could also track the time she went through the register and have the "cash office" pull the receipt on that day and time. So it doesn't matter if she paid in cash, check, or credit they could find that receipt number solely based on the day/time/register#.

Not that anything she bought there could be crucial to the case but ya never know. That and they could see her getting into her car as well after she left.

Bold mine.

If this particular Wal-Mart had the newer, digital camera system, how far back could it go? Would it be able to be accessed back as far as a year?

ETA: In reading essie's post above, looks like the answers vary from 1 month to at least a year, or even longer.

 

[TakeNote]

i have a comment about caylee shoes.....

im thinking that maybe caylee had flip flops because it was really hot....and if/when she put caylee in the trunk....the flip flops came off easy.....she may have just set them aside in the trunk and didnt think anything of it....left caylee bound ....and went off with tonE......latter after caylee dies kc just thru the flip flops away ....along with anything else......i think if there was any toys found in the bag.....(cant remember if there was any)...could have been in caylee's hands....along with her blanket....and since caylee died....it would have been really hard for / or she just didnt want to deal with it....to take those things off/out of caylees hands.....and she scooped caylee and what ever she had been holding on to....and disposed of her......

i really agree....if....SA...can prove that there is an outline of a childs body in the fetal postion that would support caylee was alive when first put into the trunk....

on topic...... i really hope SA has video of this walmart showing casey and caylee together!!....oh boy....that maybe why the SA is sooo confident they can put casey to death....that sure would make the jury wonder....where caylee was ....from the time at walmat with her mother to the time....the video store shows her with tonE.....yikes....would also show that zanny could not of had caylee.....why would casey go to pick her up.....from zanny's ......if she already had her....at walmart

 

[LinasK]

Snipped for space.
I really think the evidence shows casey planned this for months. I don't think she got angry and blew her stack. The computer searches for chloroform, missing kids, neck breaking, then the traces of chloroform in trunk, all point to a premeditated killing. casey felt trapped by Caylee and jealous of her. She wanted to get rid of her. She planned and when the time was "right" she killed her.
How did she do it? The cadaver dog hits near the pool and the backyard led me to believe she may have chloroformed Caylee and then either smothered or drowned her in the backyard. Any of the three could have killed her, obviously. Possibly, she chloroformed Caylee until she passed out and then wrapped duct tape around her mouth and nose to finish the job or make sure it stayed finished. Maybe she wrapped tape around her mouth to keep her quiet and then put chloroform in front of her nose until she died. I don't know. But I think it was not that fast and I know it took a stone cold evil heart to do such a thing.

BBM. This is what I think happened.

 

[RevCrim]

BBM. This is what I think happened.

Good theory- However, I go back to -How did Caylee get into a fetal position?
Not if she was fighting back-I would think only if one was frightened or very sick.
Did Caylee recoil from fear from a beating or her mother's rage?
Or, was she getting drowsy or nauseous from being given a drug, and curl up in a fetal position to sleep?

Why was KC at a Wal-Mart in Casselbury? KC was allegedly already angry, so did she ride around, planning Caylee's demise? Did she pull into Wal-Mart only because it was convienient, but far enough away from her home, to buy something to knock Caylee out by drugging her? Can one even still buy such a thing OTC?

 

[RevCrim]

Note: The syringe found at the site where Caylee was found- can it be traced to being bought from a Wal-Mart?
Or, traced to a hospital or nursing home?
Surely, it must have DNA on it, as well.
Does anyone recall this being discussed inthe documents of evidence?

 

[s1rebecca]

If she was spotted at Wal-Mart, where is the video footage and why isn't it being used as evidence either by the SA or the Defense. We were in Wal-Mart this weekend and my son said mom look there are 18 cameras up there, and that was just the top of the store. It was easy enough for them to get the Bank of America, Target, and Blockbuster footage, why no Wal Mart footage. Also if she was in Wal Mart that means and Caylee was with her she was killed in between then and when she met up with TL. Interesting...definitely is interesting.

 

[watcher9]

Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the defense and A's try to explain why the shoes ended up back at the house if a Walmart tape could be found and it showed Caylee wearing the same shoes?

 

[marspiter]

Bold mine.

If this particular Wal-Mart had the newer, digital camera system, how far back could it go? Would it be able to be accessed back as far as a year?

ETA: In reading essie's post above, looks like the answers vary from 1 month to at least a year, or even longer.

Thats kind of the problem in answering what the new digital system does. There are two different ones I've seen. I left Loss Prevention before most of the stores in our district had the digital system. I've previewed the new system but I'm not as intimate with it as I was the old analog system. I actually had to rewire a couple of old stores on that old system.

Also the Asset Protection Team (new Loss Prevention) doesn't set up the new systems like we did in the old days. They have a company that comes out and does it now. The rough estimate I was given was about a year. I know the multiplexer it uses is much different then the old system and possibly has the hard drive built into the multiplexer. That's just a guess though as I've only seen then new equipment briefly and never really got to work with it. Also by policy the APC (Asset Protection Coordinator) could be fired for disclosing the information.

Sorry I can't give a more detailed and definitive answer as it's been a number of years since I worked for them. With bigger hard drives now then back then I would say 1yr plus is a good rough estimate.

 

[RevCrim]

If she was spotted at Wal-Mart, where is the video footage and why isn't it being used as evidence either by the SA or the Defense. We were in Wal-Mart this weekend and my son said mom look there are 18 cameras up there, and that was just the top of the store. It was easy enough for them to get the Bank of America, Target, and Blockbuster footage, why no Wal Mart footage. Also if she was in Wal Mart that means and Caylee was with her she was killed in between then and when she met up with TL. Interesting...definitely is interesting.

Great post- This is my point- Caylee was never out of KC's sight or hands, up until the time she dumped her. If the Wal-Mart theory is true, the window of the time Caylee was murdered is shrinking, along with the possible manner she was killed and the motive for the murder, with KC being the only person
around. Wal-Mart can go back to their receipts for the 16th of June, 2008 and check each register for purchases made during lunch time hours. If video is still available they will show what register she was at. If receipts alone show purchases that can be identified at the burial site or the A's home-Bingo, especially if KC used a check or credit card. We don't know if JT saw a bag-whether large or small or several in either KC's or Caylee's hands, when they left Wal-Mart.

 

[Intermezzo]

KC appeared to keep clothes in the car for both her and Caylee at one time or another. I don't remember if and when she towed Caylee over to RM or other places the backpack for Caylee was with her. I would have to go over those interviews again.

KC buying something for Caylee? I don't think so. I also don't buy the statement from CA that Caylee's shoes and clothes were all accounted for either. Remember Caylee's bathing suit being returned after KC was arrested. Sheeze, CA lies and lies and lies.

BBM
Neither do I.

 

[SuziQ]

If she was spotted at Wal-Mart, where is the video footage and why isn't it being used as evidence either by the SA or the Defense. We were in Wal-Mart this weekend and my son said mom look there are 18 cameras up there, and that was just the top of the store. It was easy enough for them to get the Bank of America, Target, and Blockbuster footage, why no Wal Mart footage. Also if she was in Wal Mart that means and Caylee was with her she was killed in between then and when she met up with TL. Interesting...definitely is interesting.

We don't know what the SA or the defense has. Doesn't mean they don't have it.

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't know...with all that we know now I don't think the two of them were talking or at least Mom wasn't talking to daughter. Do you really think Casey would have pushed her mom to babysit after "whatever happened" on Father's Day?

BBM
Yes.
Casey had to go to her Event Planner job at Universal.

 

[chizap]

If in fact he DID see them this AM and it could be proven,

Maybe Caylee had an accident (shorts,shoes)and KC went to replace
items and found out she couldn't use the credit card anymore,
or
just didn't want to be embarrassed by Caylee so she darted out ahead,
and after "the flurry of calls" on the 16th (yes, CA or GA will not babysit anymore) she figured -
"fine, then you'll just have to be quiet while I go out" accidently on purpose-remember- she can Rage
Caylee was probably already showing signs of wanting to be with anyone BUT KC, aggravating her even more
jmo

 

[marspiter]

Just to give some more insight on the amount of coverage Wal~Mart has with their cameras in a store. Given that the store Casey was at was in an urban area I would say the coverage would be greater then what my store had.

Yes as many know or may have guessed not all of the black bubbles have cameras. It's more a deterrent. However every exit has at least one camera shot. At our store I had 2 shots per exit. One at the exit and one looking down the "action aisle" looking toward the exit. Every register has at least two shots even out lining ones like sporting goods and Garden Center. One looking at the customer and one looking at the employee and register.

Other areas with policy required shots are pool chemicals, house hold chemicals, pharmacy, electronics, and the cash office. Our store was very small and actually didn't exist according to Wal~Marts floor plans which made modulars for departments hard (that's what determines what product goes where).

Our store was roughly 86,000 sq ft, and was built 20 years ago. It only had one remodel in 20 years. When I was there the store had 8 multiplexers with 16 camera shots a piece with one hidden "Quad plexer" with 4 shots. The hidden ones were for the employee breakroom, managers office, "hidden" cash office shot, and personnel office.

Which gave us 132 cameras total and 6 of those shots where in the parking lot. Hope this helps for anyone trying to figure out if Casey could be tracked by security. So given that this little podunk store in the sticks had that much coverage I would say it's safe to assume the store Casey was in had better coverage.

PS We had 242 camera bubbles.

 

[seagull65]

If it's true that Caylee didn't have any shoes on when they did the Walmart run, that did bring my mind straight back to Casey's description of the alleged phone call, too (from Caylee where Casey claimed Caylee was talking about her shoes.)

Do hope the Walmart video will clarify some of these aspects, I'm so glad the new witness from the electronics store came forward filling in another piece of the time puzzle on that day, it will be interesting to see what info the video will provide. Overall, this additional information about Casey having gone to Walmart supports the impression for me that Casey might have been having a pretty ordinary day. I find it a stretch to picture her drugging or murdering Caylee to be with TL that day or any guy on any day. She'd always apparently been comfortable taking Caylee along to places she went, including with Tony. (I'm not sure yet if I believe that Caylee had been prohibited from Tony's apartment. I know what the statements are of course. I think if TL or his roommates had really objected, Casey would quickly have moved on, and it doesn't look like she was that exclusive or serious with TL at all, he certainly wasn't serious, she knew that and saw another guy when TL was out of town. So I don't think she would murder Caylee to be with TL.) For other reasons, like a sudden rage or something? I can't rule it out of course though it seems like a slight stretch to me. Something occuring between Walmart and TL's like at JBlanchard? Could be. Something occurring while TL and Casey were in Blockbuster? Who knows. Well, fingers crossed the Walmart video will fill in some blanks. Also hope information can be found regarding what she bought. Just chicken to take to TL's as usual? Or what? Thanks for the thread and the great posts here

 

[seagull65]

thanks for the great info Marspiter!

 

[marspiter]

thanks for the great info Marspiter!

LOL never thought my Wal~Mart years right after college would ever yield any valuable information for anything. Kinda made me laugh a little at my desk considering how much I hated that place. Oh the stories I could tell...it's no wonder they had the largest civil suite in the history of US civil courts brought against them.

Thats OT though and I'm sorry for straying off path. Just had to say talking about it made me laugh.