GENERIC HEADER NEWS MISSING PERSONS

Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

Discussion in 'Lisa Irwin' started by nursebeeme, Oct 21, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LglNrs

    LglNrs Verified Expert

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As an RN for over 30 years, I have been present at many deaths in home care and I have always been astounded how the family pup would change their behavior right before their loved one was about to pass. Often times, the family dog would no longer enter the room of where their loved one was dying.
     
  2. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Exactly! Thank you for coming in and posting this.
     
  3. daisy7

    daisy7 Retired WS Staff

    Messages:
    12,539
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    How often do HRD dogs give a false positive response?

    Thanks so much for answering our questions! :blowkiss:
     
  4. deelytful1

    deelytful1 *~a mere mortal~*

    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    1) So, the dogs can only hit on a scent if the dead body was in direct contact with the surface? Unlike dogs that track scents?
    2) If a body is buried underground, will the dogs still hit on the scent? How far underground?
    Thanks so much for this very informative thread!
     
  5. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Depends on the dog, some have accuracy rates in the high 90's. This is part of why you bring another dog in blind.
     
  6. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    HRD dogs will also hit on what is called transfer scent. Say you touch your dead grandmother and then grab your phone, they'll hit on the phone as well.

    Yes, they will hit on buried, how far depends on the training. 18 inches to 3 ft. is standard, and the more training and the higher your certification rating the deeper you go. Dogs have been trained and have had great success at 15 to 20 ft.
     
  7. SarahW

    SarahW Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The hit is probable cause for a search under the circumstances; it is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt (not at this time, with only the "hit" as evidence) that there was a death or that if there was the death was recent.

    That's an older home in an older neighborhood. It is possible a former occupant died in the home (as my mother died in hers) and there are remnant traces of cadaverine, etc. from fluids leaking into the floor, subfloor, joist spaces, drywall, etc. My mother died next to her bed following a stroke and wasn't immediately discovered.

    That's possibility a.

    There are others: a home birth in that room, pregnancy loss, menstrual fluids, bloody show - any decaying human blood product or tissue could produce a scent resulting in a hit.

    There is even the possibility of a false hit - in good or bad faith - resulting from an improperly used or improperly trained dog.

    Analysis to followup and a history of events in the home is necessary to determine the source of the hit. It rules in the possibility that Lisa died there, but it does not rule out other possiblities.

    THe extensive search I think was partly to determine if that hit was really related to a recent loss of life.
     
  8. HatesSociopaths

    HatesSociopaths Inactive

    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    At the possible Susan Powell shallow grave that was empty, they had 10 cadaver dogs hit on the same spot. I gathered this would be very compelling for the jury. Is it safe to assume that more than one dog was brought to see if they all hit on this spot?
     
  9. iWitness

    iWitness New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Could the dogs then hit on the scent on the clothes worn by whomever handled baby Lisa's body that night after she died?
     
  10. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

    Messages:
    53,158
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    0
    copied this question over/bumping up
     
  11. daisy7

    daisy7 Retired WS Staff

    Messages:
    12,539
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yet, according to the SW, they only brought in 1 dog.
     
  12. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    yes they could.
     
  13. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That's all they talked about yes.
     
  14. Boodles

    Boodles Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,374
    Likes Received:
    3,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is the reason for a "no-fly zone" during a search related to the use of dogs specifically and, if so, why?

    Several sources mentioned requests that no video be shot in proximity to search areas due to the techniques being used (I took that to mean it was in reference to the dogs). Is there something the dogs do that, if known, would tip off a criminal somehow (I'm not asking what that might be)?
     
  15. ela_ss teacher

    ela_ss teacher Member

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Forgive me if this has already been asked/answered. I checked but didn't see it.

    Could the dogs be picking up a scent from a long ago deceased person, such as the previous homeowner?

    What do you think is the longest amount of time the scent of death can be detectable in a house? (like if someone died 10yrs ago would their scent still be on the floor?)
     
  16. Knox

    Knox #justiceforMoni ~

    Messages:
    15,536
    Likes Received:
    21,686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sarx, were the dogs used in this search certified in the above?

    Look forward to your reply to SarahW's post.
     
  17. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Sorry, I am in an area with very limited internet right now.
    Yes, they have had several out there that are.
     
  18. Peliman

    Peliman New Member

    Messages:
    6,766
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello you two, got a question now if I may.

    A new report is discussing the use of elimination swabs for the dogs by different members of the family.

    PDF at this link

    http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf

    Can you expand on this a little bit please? Is this used for trailing/tracking dogs to eliminate persons from an area with multiple scents? Is it also used for cadaver dogs? Is it taken from a piece of clothing? The "not this person type of command?

    Sorry for so many questions, really curious, didn't know swabs can be taken.
     
  19. Knox

    Knox #justiceforMoni ~

    Messages:
    15,536
    Likes Received:
    21,686
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thought this was worth posting Sarx. If it was Eddie maybe we can verify his credentials as stated by this person.
     
  20. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Elimination swabs are basically scent articles for those that aren't missing so that the dogs can ignore them. They can be taken from the person (using gauze), rubbed off clothing, rubbed off car seats, etc. Lots of ways to get it.
    Don't apologize, that's why I am here!!
    Sorry if I'm starting to make less and less sense, I am exhausted!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice