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IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by nikkiw319, Jul 13, 2012.

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  1. GrainneDhu

    GrainneDhu Verified Expert

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    Back in the 1980s, LE had an information booth for Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin.

    I don't have a cite but I was there and was it.
     
  2. lishac23

    lishac23 When love calls...I answer them

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    So based on your map...the purse was found near where the woods start to get thicker (towards Maiden Lane) as opposed to the more dense open area by the gate?
     
  3. hollyblue

    hollyblue It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen t

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    At a distance of close to a 1/4 mile I think they could be easily missed , if hurried. My eyes certainly couldn't make out a face or if Lyric was an adult or big child that far away. imo
     
  4. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    Thank you so much!

    So, at first glance, they are heading away from the lake.

    Gramma said she let them go out at 11.30 with a warning not to be long as they had an appointment. She started to get worried by 12.30.

    It would fit this timeline if they were RETURNING to the house at 12.15? Right when Gramma expects them?

    So maybe they'd already been to the lake and were heading home again when they were abducted?

    All we need to explain then is the reason for the staging of the bikes, in this scenario...

    Any glaring errors, please let me know.

    :moo:
     
  5. brighidin

    brighidin remember me as a time of day

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    I agree SacreBleu. Mahoolin, I haven't read anything that makes fun of Lyric's size. Maybe i have missed those posts. The point I have seen a few people make is that, theoretically, Lyric would be harder to subdue physically than Elizabeth.

    As to the part I bolded, Lyric's NMEC poster, which is linked in the first post of this thread, states she is 4'11 and 145 pounds. That isn't small and to say that doesn't imply she is fat or out of shape or obese or anything derogatory.

    And I think you are right that Lyric is going to blossom into a beautiful young woman. She just needs to be brought home, darn it!

    ETA: Lishac, I didn't see your post after these ones that I quoted. Lyric's weight wouldn't preclude her from doing things, or make her excessively thirsty. Heck, my daughter is 4'2 and only 50 pounds and gets really sweaty, thirsty, and rosy in the cheeks whenever she does anything athletic, so the weight of a little girl doesn't mean much, imo.
     
  6. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Yes ... The purse was 10 feet east of the bikes, so if we place the bikes at the gate, then the purse was 10 feet towards Maiden Lane. The trail is 10 feet wide, so that helps to give a sense of the distance between the gate and the purse.
     
  7. mahoolin

    mahoolin New Member

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    Thanks SacreBleu, and no, I don't think anyone has been intentionally snarky. I think sometimes stereotypes just get in the way. You're right, in some instances, her size does determine her part in someone's theory.

    I just wanted everyone to remember she's just a little girl, and that just because she's larger - like Lishac said - doesn't mean she's not capable.
    Not being argumentative at all. :twocents:
     
  8. hollyblue

    hollyblue It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen t

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    BBM. Are you saying your LE does not carry weapons....or that most people there don't carry?!!! TIA
     
  9. song22

    song22 New Member

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    I wanted to follow up with a link as well. I mentioned we'd had several reports of attempted abductions or suspicious vans in Des Moines this year. One of those was made up. http://urbandale.patch.com/articles/girl-who-reported-abduction-will-not-go-to-juvenile-court

    I still wonder how many others are later found to be false. I know the dangers are real. But a lot of these reports of attempted abductions feel a little like mass hysteria. I felt like the Dubuque report last week seemed totally off. In the video I saw, the girl said the man actually touched her face and said she was so beautiful. It didn't ring true to me. The story later morphed and was full of discrepancies and LE said it was all a "misunderstanding".
     
  10. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    The Collins home, where the girls were being looked after by the grandmother, is North of the lake. The building with the video camera is North of the house, across the alley. The camera is facing South, so the girls are traveling West.
     
  11. roseofsharon

    roseofsharon Active Member

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    I also think the clothing looks dark and I have watched it over and over to try and pick up some green, as it was reported that L was dressed like a Sesame Street character.

    I also question the scale of the persons riding the bikes. In the case of E, she was a pettite little girl, but the two riders, IMO, look older and taller.

    The film is not clear, however, so may just appear this way, but the clothing is definitely dark, which I find odd, for two little girls, on a hot summer day.

    Did Grandma know what the girls were wearing, other than L's green top.

    IMO
     
  12. song22

    song22 New Member

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    Gosh, I don't get the impression at all that one could walk on that shoreline. It looks to me like the "shore" is just mud and muck.
     
  13. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    Re Lyric's weight -

    she looks to me like one of those kids (like me, my son) who puts on a heap of puppy fat just before they shoot up.

    It doesn't mean for a second that they are unfit, or are going to stay chubby...they often grow into their weight.

    I think the point being made is she was adult weight, if not yet adult height, therefore would physically be harder to move around than tiny Lizzie.

    As they were so physically different too, it would also rule out a single sexual perp who usually (but not always) has a "type". Lyric was way more developed, almost a young woman, and Lizzie still very much a little girl.

    One of them is the odd one out...find out why BOTH girls were taken, and you find the girls.

    :moo:
     
  14. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    LE carries weapons.

    It is illegal for anyone else to carry them so no one does.

    Amazing thought hey.

    You can go anywhere and pretty much guarantee no one is armed. A whole different mindset to the US.
     
  15. brighidin

    brighidin remember me as a time of day

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    I don't think anyone said Lyric was dressed like a sesame Street character. Early on, her flip flops ere described as having a SS character on them, although in an interview, Misty described them differently.

    misty also said Lyric was wearing a green shirt in the morning, i.e. as pyjamas, but wasn't sure if she had changed once they got to Evansdale.

    I'm pretty sure this was during an interview on the JVM show, which are all available on youtube. I can't look them up though.
     
  16. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    Sorry but directions are about as clear as mud to me.

    I have a learning disorder.

    I can only work on "towards" and "away" and "left" and "right".

    Can you please place it in those terms? I could figure out what you're saying but not without getting a paper and pen...

    :banghead:
     
  17. MNDad

    MNDad New Member

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    It really was just bad reporting. Brovan runs slightly southeast by Northwest and the lake is South of there. They could be going away from the lake or going towards the lake; depending on which roads they use. If Evans then away from the lake. If River forest then to the lake. It is to much of an assumption to say either way. What can be said is that they were a couple doors down from Elizabeth's house on the street she lives on heading westerly on Brovan.
     
  18. hollyblue

    hollyblue It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen t

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    Wow. That's wonderful for the crime rate. Are you allowed to carry out in the bush? What the hey do you do if one of the many venomous snakes comes along? Geeezzzzz!!! Seriously....or in your yard? Maybe I watched too much of the Crocodile Hunter,,,,,,,,,,,,
     
  19. brighidin

    brighidin remember me as a time of day

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    The collins house is above the lake. Most people would go left to get there. The girls were seen on CCTV going left, so the reporter said they were going away from the lake. But as it turns out, you can get to the lake going either left and then down or right and then down. The girls weren't riding away from the lake, because you can get there from the left or the right.

    I hope that helps and makes sense. And I hope i've got it right.
     
  20. MNDad

    MNDad New Member

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    Looking east (right side of the photo) it looks rocky and even dry. The way the light is hitting the dirt, I would say that it is not wet. In my opinion, easily walkable.
     
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