IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[Marilynilpa]

It appears that the girls have been abducted but the thought of some kind of bizarre accident (falling in an old well or something similar) keeps nagging at me. I guess it’s harder for me to envision them being kidnapped than the alternative. I thought by now we would have them back of at the least know what became of them. Will we ever know what happened to these two young girls?

I originally thought the girls had drowned in the lake. It was easier for me to accept an accident. I maintained my position until the lake was drained and it became obvious something much worse than an accident had taken place.

I hope we'll eventually know what happened to Lyric and Elizabeth. As others have stated, once harvesting begins perhaps some questions will be answered. JMO

 

[JodiR]

Yeah you're right.

Two sets of bikes just doesn't make sense any way you look at it...BUT I think with this perp, any level of planning is possible.

:cow:

I want to know what time TG rode back by the bikes to go back to Gilbertville (assuming he took the same trail back). Were they in the exact same spot? Same positions as before?

 

[hambirg]

Sorry if previously posted.
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=80648
Ariz Authorities Hunt Accused Child Molestor
Authorities in Arizona say Eric George McNeill has been molesting kids since the 1970s, and that more victims are likely. Cops think he fled to Washington State after the most recent charges came to light in September, 2011. McNeill is accused of sexual assault, kidnapping and molesting children ages 4 to 17.

Sex: Male Race: White Current Age: 64 Height: 5'0" Weight: 255 lbs. Hair (Color, Description, Facial Hair): Brown
Eyes: Blue
Traits and Habits: Frequents bars, casinos, flea markets, and swap meets
Hangs out with bikers
Skilled handyman; cash-only jobs
Last Seen: Washington

5'0" tall, 255 lbs!? :what:

You'd think he would stick out like a sore thumb!

 

[cindersoot]

There is no doubt they have searched the hell out of Evansdale...also unfortunately no doubt that there are probably still properties they have yet to access or eliminate.

Sad as it is, some people will refuse LE access and force them to go to court for a search warrant...times this by ten people in the town and you've straight away got a legal backlog that could take weeks to sort out officially.

Hard to believe, but some people just don't care about these girls.

Others may have something to hide...with meth being so widespread in Iowa, the chances are quite high that LE have run into this sort of resistance from the local criminal community.

How do you know they have searched the hell out of Evansdale, and why would you say some people don't care about the girls? Just wondering where you get your information, because Im pretty certain everyone in Evansdale cares greatly for the safety of these girls.

 

[SapphireSteel]

5'0" tall, 255 lbs!? :what:

You'd think he would stick out like a sore thumb!

That describes my ex husband

 

[cindersoot]

BBM
Thanks, Boots, that's an interesting theory I haven't seen yet...and you could very well be right. I think you're saying they were abducted from the skate park?

Playing devil's advocate here: Wouldn't Elizabeth most likely have taken her purse with her? And what about the FBI bloodhounds...wouldn't they have made a beeline for the skate park? Of course, for all I know maybe they did.

Leave their bikes and walk up to the skatepark? The skatepark is a ways up from the lake. The skatepark is not in a secluded area, there are many houses nearby.

 

[otto]

The submerged vehicle thing is entirely a guess based on next to nothing except the general pattern and planning of this crime.

Again, motive is everything in this one.

I have never believed that your usual sexual perp is behind this one.

My thought processes are -

There is an (as yet unknown) non sexual motive for taking the girls. Who profits?

They were taken in a vehicle - most likely a van, most likely white.
The van is missing.

The girls are missing.

Find the van, you find the girls. In my humble opinion.

I doubt that the van is likely "borrowed", I suspect it was likely stolen from a car park somewhere, new plates/disguise added, then dumped afterward. I believe the perp involved is so organised that this vehicle could well have been stolen to order days or even weeks beforehand, for this purpose only. Stick some stolen plates on it...bingo....a "new" vehicle.

If it was dumped in a body of water afterward (most likely IMO) then chances are the girls bodies are dumped in the same body of water...perhaps even still in the back of the vehicle.

Again, all opinion.

ETA: stealing a vehicle eliminates all concerns over VINs as well.

BBM

On what do you base the reference to a white van?

"There has been speculation on social media sites about the involvement of a white van in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth, but as of last week, law enforcement involved in the investigation said there's no evidence to support those rumors.`

Aug 01, 2012 8:04 PM MDT
http://www.kwwl.com/story/19174082/...sing-girls-investigation?clienttype=printable

 

[peeples]

Many Iowans, including me, believe that Evelyn's killer(s) are known but LE can't find enough evidence to bring charges.

Thanks largely to Lori Arnold, actor Tom Arnold's sister, Iowa has been riddled by meth. It's not just the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area, it's all of Iowa.

http://www.thefix.com/content/how-americas-meth-queen-melted-down?page=all

Read the first paragraph description of Arnold and it is really chilling in light of her absolute lack of remorse or regret.

I work in the DHS northern service area...meth is a factor in 90% of my cases

 

[watcher9]

Okay ... sorry for dropping so many maps on the page, but I'm trying to think this through as I'm looking at the maps.

At this point, I'm becoming fairly convinced that the girls arrived at the lake by bike and that for some reason, they rode their bikes to the opposite side of the lake, where they parked the bikes, set down the purse and waited for someone. The repeated mention of a paddle boat makes me wonder if they talked with someone at some point ... someone that implied to the girls that they could have a ride if they met him at the gate. Regardless of which path they took to the drainage pipe, I'm fairly convinced that the perp used Arbutus/Maiden Lane to leave with the girls.

Thanks for reposting all the maps. Sometimes I wish they would show up on each page.
I keep thinking about why would you go back around the lake to get to the interstate when you could get to Gilbert on one of the side streets, turn right on McCoy and then east on Evansdale Dr to the interstate, staying hidden longer as you calmed down your nerves? Which ramps were closed down?
Why go on the interstate at all? If you go to the end of Arbutus, it looks like a small road that goes under the interstate to a bridge over the river on Cedar Valley Natural Trail if it's driveable? There are a lot of places to hide something on this road.

 

[Marilynilpa]

5'0" tall, 255 lbs!? :what:

You'd think he would stick out like a sore thumb!

At first I thought maybe it was a typo, but when I saw this man's picture I can see him being a short, stocky guy.

From the AMW link, it states:

Traits and Habits: Frequents bars, casinos, flea markets, and swap meets
Hangs out with bikers
Skilled handyman; cash-only jobs

The types of places he hangs out are places where you might see the same people every day, but never really know anything about them (JMO). Maybe he was perceived as a rolly-polly, harmless kind of guy, and no one paid much attention to him at all. And the cash-only jobs - this guy sounds very mobile with no close ties to any community. When he leaves, there's no need for him to give notice at work or say goodbye to friends, he just goes.

I'm no profiler, I'm just guessing.

ETA: The above has nothing to do with Lyric and Elizabeth. I'd hate for someone to skim through the posts and think I was discussing a POI in our case.

 

[foxbluff]

I can't get the map portion to open...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[otto]

Thanks for reposting all the maps. Sometimes I wish they would show up on each page.
I keep thinking about why would you go back around the lake to get to the interstate when you could get to Gilbert on one of the side streets, turn right on McCoy and then east on Evansdale Dr to the interstate, staying hidden longer as you calmed down your nerves? Which ramps were closed down?
Why go on the interstate at all? If you go to the end of Arbutus, it looks like a small road that goes under the interstate to a bridge over the river on Cedar Valley Natural Trail if it's driveable? There are a lot of places to hide something on this road.

I have no thoughts about exit routes, but I`m of the opinion that after the girls were kidnapped, they were taken as far away from the scene of the crime as fast as possible.

 

[dotr]

With a weapon, even the proverbial 98 pound weakling could get the girls into a vehicle. Or someone with physical disabilities, even someone who uses a wheelchair.

I bet very few people would suspect someone they know has to use a wheelchair. I've discovered in the last 7 years that people in wheelchairs are often just about invisible.

It just occurred to me after reading your post, that someone could have pretended to use (I think use is a better word than in) a wheelchair and asked the girls for help to get in or out of vehicule..
O/t, but once when I was at a club, a fellow on the dance floor using a wheelchair, asked me to dance. So I tried to gracefully move slowly, gently on the floor with him for a song or two, when he jumped up ( suddenly very able-bodied) - and laughing swung me roughly around like a ragdoll to the great amusement of the gathered crowd...

 

[peeples]

OT kinda..
Teen attempts to kidnap 7 yr old in Oregon.. not that i think he has anything to do with the cousins.. just goes to show though.. nothing says it had to be an adult that caused their disappearance

http://www.kptv.com/story/19387706/teen-accused-of-trying-to-abduct-7-year-old-girl-arrested

 

[TxLady2]

The submerged vehicle thing is entirely a guess based on next to nothing except the general pattern and planning of this crime.

Again, motive is everything in this one.

I have never believed that your usual sexual perp is behind this one.

My thought processes are -

There is an (as yet unknown) non sexual motive for taking the girls. Who profits?

They were taken in a vehicle - most likely a van, most likely white.

The van is missing.

The girls are missing.

Find the van, you find the girls. In my humble opinion.

I doubt that the van is likely "borrowed", I suspect it was likely stolen from a car park somewhere, new plates/disguise added, then dumped afterward. I believe the perp involved is so organised that this vehicle could well have been stolen to order days or even weeks beforehand, for this purpose only. Stick some stolen plates on it...bingo....a "new" vehicle.

If it was dumped in a body of water afterward (most likely IMO) then chances are the girls bodies are dumped in the same body of water...perhaps even still in the back of the vehicle.

Again, all opinion.

ETA: stealing a vehicle eliminates all concerns over VINs as well.

Thanks for the reply.

Where are you getting these... uh... facts... that you call "most likely"? LE has not said that it is likely the perp had a white van, or that it was stolen. So this theory of yours is mostly just speculation, not based on facts.

I don't think we can establish a motive until we know who did this. We certainly can't rule out that it is non-sexual.

Sorry, but the only fact relevant to this case that I can see supporting your theory is that the girls are missing and "most likely" kidnapped.

 

[otto]

I can't get the map portion to open...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html

It looks like the media was asked to add a map to the investigators notes to indicate the roads that were mentioned.

 

[watcher9]

I have no thoughts about exit routes, but I`m of the opinion that after the girls were kidnapped, they were taken as far away from the scene of the crime as fast as possible.

I guess I'm thinking about the sad possibilities of places to hide bodies after the girls were taken.

 

[watcher9]

I can't get the map portion to open...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html

I clicked on the Sheriff Office release and the maps are shown on the third page.

 

[gregjrichards]

OT kinda..
Teen attempts to kidnap 7 yr old in Oregon.. not that i think he has anything to do with the cousins.. just goes to show though.. nothing says it had to be an adult that caused their disappearance

http://www.kptv.com/story/19387706/teen-accused-of-trying-to-abduct-7-year-old-girl-arrested

It might be a teen but the fact there was no useful evidence or sightings of the perp says to me the person(s) was skilled and and knowledgeable about what they were doing. I think transport was used so that rules out anyone under 16 I guess.

Are the families still talking to the media locally?

 

[GrainneDhu]

It just occurred to me after reading your post, that someone could have pretended to use (I think use is a better word than in) a wheelchair and asked the girls for help to get in or out of vehicule..
O/t, but once when I was at a club, a fellow on the dance floor using a wheelchair, asked me to dance. So I tried to gracefully move slowly, gently on the floor with him for a song or two, when he jumped up ( suddenly very able-bodied) - and laughing swung me roughly around like a ragdoll to the great amusement of the gathered crowd...

That just strikes me as a man who has major hostility issues with women. What a horrid experience for you.