IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by bessie, Dec 10, 2012.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    In Memory of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook


    [​IMG]
    "Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
    -Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

    Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012
    http://www.bhcso.org/
    http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html
    http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

    IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Scanner Thread - What's Poster in the Scanner Thread, Stays in the Scanner Thread

    Case Map by poster hollye

    Amandareckonwith's case archive

    Related: IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    and Hollye's Case Map

    RSO Rules: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry.

    It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.

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  3. RNER

    RNER New Member

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    I'm still here...

    There are a lot of similarities between the abductions of Lyric and Elizabeth and the two girls in Dayton, and both could be connected to Klunder. However, the difference in my opinion is a big one, and leads me to believe they are not connected. The abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth appears to be planned, well-executed, and "the perfect crime" with no reports (by media and LE) of confirmed sightings, witnesses, evidence, suspects. The abductor was able to keep the girls "hidden" for 5 months and has been undetected for almost a year. The abduction in Dayton appears to be random with witnesses, evidence, and even a suspect. Yes, there was an escaped victim and a suicide of the perp that aided in the investigation and search in Dayton, but there was carelessness with Klunder (leaving a gun behind with an unsupervised victim, blood-trail at and near the scene, witnesses, etc) that wasn't present or made public with Lyric and Elizabeth.

    In my opinion, either LE in and around Evansdale, has similar evidence of carelessness which hasn't been made public (and has resulted in the case not being solved) or the cases are completely different with regard to motive, method, and manner by the perp.
     
  4. threecrazykids

    threecrazykids Well-Known Member

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    I too am still on the fence as to whether or not Klunder could have pulled this off. However, this is just one possible scenario that goes through my mind:

    MK is driving through Evansdale on his way to wherever (Tyson Foods possibly or just driving around killing time) and stops by Casey's and grabs a bite to eat. He happens to see L&L riding their bikes (closer to home) and tells them he has baby pigs and if they want to see them come to Meyer's Lake around 12:30. The girls swing by home - grab a drink of juice - and off they go to ride around until it's time to head to the lake. They swing by Fareway and ask for directions to the lake -"oh, just stay right here on the nature trail and it will take you straight to the lake" - and they arrive at the lake's backside right by Maiden Lane.

    MK has his truck parked at Maiden Lane - the girls could be playing next to the water - he sits and watches them for awhile - building up his desires and plans while he watches them. He calls them over to the truck - grabs one of them - threatens the other with the euthanasia gun or a knife and tells them to get into the truck. OR just simply tells them he's going to take them for a ride (with no weapons displayed) to see the baby pigs and they can call home when they get there (just like he did with K&D).

    They arrive at the plant - he possibly assaults one/both and hides their bodies (short OR long term) somewhere on one of the properties.

    He is completely off the radar. No one looked at him during the investigation...so he had zero worries whatsoever that he was going to be implicated. He had all the time in the world to figure out where to hide them.

    He could have taken a trip up to 7 bridges after during one of the "evening feeds" to put them there after they had been killed or he could have walked them in there alive for all we know. Could have been weeks, months, or just days.

    This is just ONE scenario I can think of where he wouldn't be under suspicion and being tracked etc. and could pull this off without anyone catching on to any of it. :(
     
  5. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa New Member

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    My reasons for thinking Klunder isn't responsible for Lyric and Lizzie's abduction/deaths are identical to yours. IMO, he was not all that organized, and I think our perp is someone who is very organized.

    I hope LE makes a statement soon ending speculation about Klunder's involvement.
     
  6. RNER

    RNER New Member

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    Agree with your scenario or something similar IF Klunder is involved. Too "perfect" in my opinion, based only on what we know (or don't know) and what has been released publicly by LE/Media.

    Maybe Klunder read about the case of Lyric and Elizabeth, and even the discussion of pigs on some forums like Websleuths (God forbid) and carried out a "copy-cat" abduction that played into his history of abducting 2 victims at the same time. The proximity and abduction of 2 victims at the same time, as well as the involvement with a hog farm does make you question his involvement with Lyric and Elizabeth somehow.
     
  7. SpringThyme

    SpringThyme New Member

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    I think this is a believable scenario. I don't think L and E's murder was the "perfect" crime. I think he may have just gotten lucky.

    Because of the girls' ages, they could have been easy to control. Maybe he subdued them with violence right away. People were used to seeing them ride their bikes, and seeing kids riding around in the summer wouldn't set off red flags. Maybe he had a vehicle at the time that was easy to hide them in.

    D, having had the knowledge of L and E's murders, may have feared for her life and decided to run. Whereas L and E may have believed him if he told them they would not get hurt of they cooperated.
     
  8. Bootsctr

    Bootsctr New Member

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    Glad you're still with us RNER! :seeya: I agree that Klunder's carelessness does not match up with what happened to E&L. It's frustrating! :banghead: God help us all! It is a real shame he killed himself. Was Klunder just not able to handle life in the real world and derailed all of sudden when he saw the two girls in Dayton? I don't know. His neighbors certainly never knew about his past life and were shocked by what he did. Surely there were signs in his private life that something was not right with this man. Right now I only hope that Kathlynn is found and that we find out who killed E&L.
     
  9. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    In what way was Klunder careless?
     
  10. jordynsmommy529

    jordynsmommy529 New Member

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    I have a question and if it's already been answered I'am sry I missed it. If MK had something too do with liz and lyric's abduction & he had left dna evidence behind wouldn't his dna already been in the system?
     
  11. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    I doubt any DNA was found ... can you think of any place where there would have been DNA evidence from the murderer?

    It seems that the children cycled to the park, then they vanished. Their bodies were found months later exposed to the elements. I don't see any place where evidence would be available.
     
  12. alliemay

    alliemay Active Member

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    Maybe by accident he would have touched one of their bikes? Or if one of the girls was wearing jewelry and he forgot to take the jewelry off and touched, I know I'm stretching things a bit guess I'm hoping by some chance he made some mistakes.
     
  13. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    The kidnapping and murder of L and E was not the perfect crime. It is simply an unsolved one. the reasons for that could be any one of a number or a combination thereof.

    The colorful criminal history of some, the custodial history or Lyric, the fact that the bikes were found at the lake and LE spend a bit of time draining it to be sure the girls weren't victims of drowning. The other attempted abduction reports that were coming in from all over IA at that time.

    Our perp, if a random stranger such as MK or someone like him, could not have known these factors would assist in the covering of his crime. they were coincidental occurrences which seem to have aided him is pulling off his crime undetected.

    To me that does not spell out lots of planning or the perfectly executed crime but rather a very lucky set of circumstances which seem to have helped him avoid detection and arrest thus far.
     
  14. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa New Member

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    An Iowa police chief says he hopes to know next week whether sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the abduction and slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

    Evansdale Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday investigators are trying to retrace Klunder’s steps from July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December.

    http://www.kimt.com/2013/05/29/evansdale-cousins-and-klunder/
     
  15. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa New Member

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    If the girls were taken at random by a stranger, then Klunder is a very good suspect.

    But if, as I believe, the girls weren't taken at random by a stranger, IMO Kludner doesn't seem likely.
     
  16. SpringThyme

    SpringThyme New Member

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    "Smock said investigators were getting subpoenas for Klunder’s phone records and seeking other information."

    Wish we knew what other information they were seeking.
     
  17. Bootsctr

    Bootsctr New Member

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    I think he was careless in that he did not make sure his second victim was secure when he left her alone to take Kathlynn elsewhere. The gun was also left with the 12 y/o. I do not think he purposefully meant to leave the gun. Was he high on cocaine or some other drug and so excited to have a victim that he recklessly leaves his weapon within his captive victim reach? I don't know. The man was clearly a psychopath.
     
  18. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa New Member

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    otto, I posted this info upthread:

    Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department Captain Rick Abben told the Des Moines Register that Klunder's DNA can be compared with evidence gathered during the Evansdale investigation.

    http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...between-abducted-iowa-girl-and-evansdale-case

    I believe LE did retrieve DNA at some point, either from the girls' bodies or from some other source.
     
  19. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa New Member

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    Perhaps the phone records will allow LE to pinpoint where Klunder was on July 13, 2012.
     
  20. jordynsmommy529

    jordynsmommy529 New Member

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    Well as they have said we have no ideal what condition there bodies where found in so how could we be sure that there wasn't any found? The girls had too have at least put up a fight of some kind when they were being murdered. Dna is very easy too transfer Under there fingernails on there clothes etc.. So too answer your question yes i think it was very possible that dna could have been found.
     
  21. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    If <modsnip> hadn't escaped and Klunder hadn't been identified as responsible for their abduction, we would have all the same speculations about the family and family friends of Kathlynn and <modsnip> that we have seen in the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth. We've seen it before, and it will contiinue to happen, where the surviving victims of child abduction/murder are suspected.

    I am 100% certain that family members and genuine friends of the families of Lyric and Elizabeth are not responsible for their murders.
     
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