IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[otto]

I think he was careless in that he did not make sure his second victim was secure when he left her alone to take Kathlynn elsewhere. The gun was also left with the 12 y/o. I do not think he purposefully meant to leave the gun. Was he high on cocaine or some other drug and so excited to have a victim that he recklessly leaves his weapon within his captive victim reach? I don't know. The man was clearly a psychopath.

The "gun" that he left with <modsnip> was useless to her unless she could place it on the forehead of her victim ... and there's no way that Klunder would let that happen.

 

[threecrazykids]

An Iowa police chief says he hopes to know next week whether sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the abduction and slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Evansdale Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday investigators are trying to retrace Klunder’s steps from July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December.

http://www.kimt.com/2013/05/29/evansdale-cousins-and-klunder/

Retracing steps wouldn't matter if DNA was a match would it? I can't think of a reason MK's DNA/fingerprints would be on the girls. But, of course, building the case rock solid would be necessary - so placing him in Evansdale that day would probably be necessary as well.

 

[otto]

otto, I posted this info upthread:

Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department Captain Rick Abben told the Des Moines Register that Klunder's DNA can be compared with evidence gathered during the Evansdale investigation.

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...between-abducted-iowa-girl-and-evansdale-case

I believe LE did retrieve DNA at some point, either from the girls' bodies or from some other source.

Thanks. The article you linked links the DNA comment to another article. I suppose that gives some optimism about catching the person responsible, but as was pointed out upthread, wouldn't Klunder's DNA be in the system due to prior sex offenses and if there was DNA found at the scene of Lyric and Elizabeth's remains, why hasn't that connection already been made?

"Abben said once autopsy results are completed for Klunder, investigators may be able to compare DNA and other information with the evidence they collected in the Evansdale case."

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...yton-missing-girl-case/article?nclick_check=1

 

[Bootsctr]

The "gun" that he left with DH was useless to her unless she could place it on the forehead of her victim ... and there's no way that Klunder would let that happen.

True! In that case, did he leave the 12 y/o w/zipties around her hands a little bit looser than Kathlynn's so she could escape when he left with Kathlynn in order that Klunder could hunt her down again thereby increasing his "fun" with his victim? If so, cruel. More cruel than I could imagine. More cruel than I want to think that Elizabeth and Lyric had to endure. I am so thankful D didn't let this take her out! We only know a small piece of what Kathlynn had to endure, and imagining the rest is crushing my heart. My only hope is that this SOS experienced the same sheer terror of what he put Kathlynn through and perhaps Elizabeth and Lyric right before he hung his sorry self.

 

[bluenoser]

otto, I posted this info upthread:

Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department Captain Rick Abben told the Des Moines Register that Klunder's DNA can be compared with evidence gathered during the Evansdale investigation.

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...between-abducted-iowa-girl-and-evansdale-case

I believe LE did retrieve DNA at some point, either from the girls' bodies or from some other source.

Hi, Im just popping in. I've been following this case since they day Lyric & Elizabeth went missing. I'm a lurker, not a poster lol. Anyway, I had missed this and it makes me very hopeful that they can link the DNA to him and solve this murder. And just knowing that they do have DNA, if it's not him, then there is still hope!

 

[Gracelin]

I'm very surprised to hear DNA.. I thought for sure there was none..

 

[raindownonme]

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Probe-Possible-Links-to-Iowa-Cousins-Murders-209344341.html

I just saw this posted in the Omaha news. It says they hope to announce next week if there is a link!

 

[Marilynilpa]

If DH hadn't escaped and Klunder hadn't been identified as responsible for their abduction, we would have all the same speculations about the family and family friends of Kathlynn and DH that we have seen in the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth. We've seen it before, and it will contiinue to happen, where the surviving victims of child abduction/murder are suspected.

I am 100% certain that family members and genuine friends of the families of Lyric and Elizabeth are not responsible for their murders.

BBM

But I never said the killer was a family member or genuine friend of the family. Someone from church, the neighborhood or along their bike route would probably be considered a "friend" by the girls. IMO the killer was known to one or both of the girls, but not someone the family would consider a close friend.

 

[otto]

BBM

But I never said the killer was a family member or genuine friend of the family. Someone from church, the neighborhood or along their bike route would probably be considered a "friend" by the girls. IMO the killer was known to one or both of the girls, but not someone the family would consider a close friend.

I suppose it's possible that Klunder was known ... in some remote way ... to D <modsnip> or Kathlynn, but that doesn't help in any way in terms of identifying a suspect. In that respect, I 100% confident that Lyric and Elizabeth had no more of a relationship with their murderer than Kathlynn did with hers.

 

[foxbluff]

This is a little bit different version of the link posted by M.PA this morning:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

Police Still Examining Klunder's Possible Connection To Evansdale Case
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A dozen investigators are retracing Klunder&#8217;s steps since July, when Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, were abducted while they were riding bikes near Evansdale, said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]&#8220;If Klunder is the responsible party, we want to have evidence to back it up,&#8221; Smock said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Klunder hanged himself the evening of May 20. Investigators found Kathlynn&#8217;s blood on his body, truck and at the hog confinement facility where he took the girls.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped> [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Investigators are now looking through old evidence, reports and information about Klunder, including his cell phone records, Smock said. He declined to provide more details about what information is being reviewed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Investigators have kept secret whether DNA evidence was found with Elizabeth's and Lyric's bodies. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]&#8220;This is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening,&#8221; Smock said.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Even if Elizabeth&#8217;s and Lyric&#8217;s killer left DNA, it might have degraded by the time the bodies were found, said Norah Rudin, a forensic DNA consultant who lives in Mountain View, California.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]&#8220;It depends on whether the DNA is inside of the body, outside the body or on clothing,&#8221; Rudin said. &#8220;With the passage of time and with the elements and bacterial growth it reduces the chance (of finding DNA). I don&#8217;t know when it goes to zero.&#8221; [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]

 

[Marilynilpa]

I suppose it's possible that Klunder was known ... in some remote way ... to DH or Kathlynn, but that doesn't help in any way in terms of identifying a suspect. In that respect, I 100% confident that Lyric and Elizabeth had no more of a relationship with their murderer than Kathlynn did with hers.

otto, as always I envy your certainty. I wish I was as certain of my theory.

All I'm 100% sure of is that on July 13, 2012, the girls were abducted, and on December 5, 2012, the girls' bodies/remains were found.

If it turns out Klunder is our perp, I'll be surprised. We should find out soon.

 

[cindersoot]

I have a question and if it's already been answered I'am sry I missed it. If MK had something too do with liz and lyric's abduction & he had left dna evidence behind wouldn't his dna already been in the system?

Well see that's what I thought. Unless they don't have any dna.

 

[foxbluff]

This is a little bit different version of the link posted by M.PA this morning:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

Police Still Examining Klunder's Possible Connection To Evansdale Case
[SIZE=-1]Investigators have kept secret whether DNA evidence was found with Elizabeth's and Lyric's bodies. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]“This is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening,” Smock said.[/SIZE]

<further snipped for space>

bbm - what does that mean?!?

 

[cindersoot]

otto, as always I envy your certainty. I wish I was as certain of my theory.

All I'm 100% sure of is that on July 13, 2012, the girls were abducted, and on December 5, 2012, the girls' bodies/remains were found.

If it turns out Klunder is our perp, I'll be surprised. We should find out soon.

Marilynilpa, do you really think we will know soon? I so hope so. lease:

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm thinking fibers could also have been on the girls bodies when found. Like fibers from a trunk carpet lining etc...or a momento from his crimes at his home?

 

[Bootsctr]

This is a little bit different version of the link posted by M.PA this morning:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

Police Still Examining Klunder's Possible Connection To Evansdale Case
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A dozen investigators are retracing Klunder’s steps since July, when Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, were abducted while they were riding bikes near Evansdale, said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]“If Klunder is the responsible party, we want to have evidence to back it up,” Smock said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Klunder hanged himself the evening of May 20. Investigators found Kathlynn’s blood on his body, truck and at the hog confinement facility where he took the girls.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped> [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Investigators are now looking through old evidence, reports and information about Klunder, including his cell phone records, Smock said. He declined to provide more details about what information is being reviewed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Investigators have kept secret whether DNA evidence was found with Elizabeth's and Lyric's bodies. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]“This is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening,” Smock said.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Even if Elizabeth’s and Lyric’s killer left DNA, it might have degraded by the time the bodies were found, said Norah Rudin, a forensic DNA consultant who lives in Mountain View, California.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]“It depends on whether the DNA is inside of the body, outside the body or on clothing,” Rudin said. “With the passage of time and with the elements and bacterial growth it reduces the chance (of finding DNA). I don’t know when it goes to zero.” [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<snipped>[/SIZE]

Thank you Foxbluff! I read Marilyn's link too, also the one she posted that had a lot of pictures of the search for Kathlynn which I greatly appreciated! It's like every news source has their own story of what happened or how they interpret the information they hear! Would love to hear SapphireSteel's opinion of all the new information. :sigh: A whole week. . . Anybody besides me get the impression from this article there may not be any useable DNA? That all along LE has had no clue who killed E&L which does not make sense that they did not warn everyone that there was a dangerous person still possibly on the loose if it was Klunder!

 

[BunnyHop]

The Evansdale Police Department hopes to decide by next week whether Michael Klunder, a registered sex offender who abducted two central Iowa girls last week before hanging himself, was involved in the murders of two cousins last year.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

 

[Bootsctr]

<further snipped for space>

bbm - what does that mean?!?

:dunno: How do you go forward if Klunder is dead but the DNA matches up? I mean I guess they will go ahead and let the public know if it was Klunder? I hope so. I mean we deserve to know.

 

[Catchy kitty]

We have to keep in mind that klunder was convicted in 1992, long before DNA was used widely like it is today, his DNA should have been collected when science and laws changed but the fact is is that laziness and lack of resources could have prevented his DNA from ever entering the system. Even if they did take a sample from him before he was released how long would it take for them to test it and enter it into the system? Most places are backlogged by a decade or more I can guess.

 

[Bootsctr]

The Evansdale Police Department hopes to decide by next week whether Michael Klunder, a registered sex offender who abducted two central Iowa girls last week before hanging himself, was involved in the murders of two cousins last year.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

Your's would not let me open it BunnyHop. Well, it let me open and have a tiny peak and then it closed on me. I did read that "they have 12 men retracing Klunder's steps." I hope we get some answers in a week.