IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by bessie, Dec 10, 2012.

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  1. ktgirl

    ktgirl Verified College Instructor

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    I agree and have thought this from the beginning.
     


  2. alliemay

    alliemay Active Member

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    IMO, I'm thinking that staging the bikes would have been an inconvenience for the person/s that did this. I also think Seven Bridges was a convenient location... someone who lived/worked or went there when they were younger. I still feel it was a sexual predator but that may be hard to prove because of decomposition.
     
  3. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

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    It's been 37 days since Kathlynn was found. I wait.
     
  4. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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  5. georger

    georger New Member

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    Very good point - it would have exposed their vehicle to being seen ...
    was there a vehicle seen in that location on that day? If I recall a maint
    vehicle was seen earlier that day at the gate ???
     
  6. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    It's hard to say without sounding cynical and cruel, but in the interests of good sleuthing, I'm mindful that no one in the immediate family has been exonerated or cleared yet.

    Too often we find out these things happen very close to home and usually the truth is accompanied by cries of friends and supporters saying "but they were such a nice person!".

    :(
     
  7. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I agree.

    I don't think the bicycles were staged; if they had been I think the perp would have left more evidence behind (fingerprints, touch DNA, shed hairs, maybe clothing or vehicle fibres, etc). The less the bicycles were handled by the perp, the less chance of leaving trace evidence behind. The least evidence would be left by the perp if he never touched the bicycles himself (maybe by luring the girls or threatening them with a weapon).

    I think the perp was familiar enough with 7 Bridges to feel comfortable there, to know that there would be very little chance of seeing someone else there during business hours. And to realise that there would be little chance of the bodies being found soon.

    I think this was a sort of organised disorganised crime. I think the perp was familiar with both locations and had a plan but did not specifically target Elizabeth and Lyric.

    It used to be thought that serial killers had (by definition) a cooling off period after each crime but would commit another killing within a relatively short period of time (less than 3 years between crimes). If there was a longer period, it suggested the perp had been imprisoned on some other charge. Now it is known that some serial killers have voluntarily gone for a decade or more between crimes.

    I think that the perp may well be quite young, just based on Elizabeth and Lyric's ages.
     
  8. Cherry

    Cherry Pie

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    I still would like to know if and when they were seen behind this store....on those bikes earlier, where is the tape from those stores, who were the customers there, who could hv followed them? Someone did. If I am to set aside what I think of the families and look toward an abduction; someone saw them around the shops they were last seen at. And then followed them. All patrons who patronized those shops (am sorry I forgot name of shop, alley or "behind the shop") should be scrutinized by LE. If they have not done this in this case, then I will blow a gasket.
     
  9. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    GrainneDhu, good post...I agree about the mixed organizational traits as well as a prolonged prison sentence being a common denominator for a predator's inactivity for a decade or more. Imo, the victim's ages may be dependant upon their ease of gaining compliance/control by the perp, before and during the abduction.

    Seems, that there was a noticeable increase in Iowa's missing persons/female cold cases once MJK's was released from prison after two decades(18 years).
    Imo, it would be less than acceptable to ignore this increase..


    A few indicators as to MJK being responsible for L & L's abduction/murder, imo.
    Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32 - Page 32 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Michael J. Klunder Timeline
    http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

    Organized versus disorganized serial killers ... that not all killers fit into a neat pigeonhole and 'crossovers' or 'mixed' killers do happen..
    Serial killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    <sniped BM> read more

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Missing_children.aspx
    Missing Children

    Nonfamily Abductions
    Although nonfamily abductions are relatively rare, they are the worst fear of most relatives of children. Long-term nonfamily abductions are typically motivated by sexual gratification, retribution, financial gain, desire to kill, and maternal desire. Sexually motivated abductions represent the most common type of nonfamily abduction and pose the highest risk of victim mortality.

    Sex is the major reason for abduction, usually by a male perpetrator with a history of sexual misconduct, violence, and substance abuse. The abductor may be an acquaintance or a stranger but rarely a family member.
    With middle-school children, the abductors are mostly likely to be strangers. Schoolyard access, physical maturity, and vulnerability help facilitate these abductions by strangers.

    Unlike familial abductions, the bodies of these children are usually found unconcealed or only slightly covered.
     
  10. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    When the missing children lists were first linked, I remember researching some of the names and I seem to recall that some of the children had been located but their names were not removed from the list.
     
  11. 24Roses

    24Roses Well-Known Member

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    I know we've been "around the block" and then some with this before, but I was in Evansdale the day of the Memorial Ride and Drive. We drove from near E's house to Meyer's Lake & it really is a long ways for 2 young girls to get to on bikes. IMO-they were either there before without family knowing about it or they were lured there. Keep in mind, this was the 1st time I've tried to find the lake, but when riding bikes they would have to go across several busy roads to get there & I think it would be impossible for someone to not of seen them. We drove on all the roads that were mentioned on here & by LE. Also, the part of the bike trail where there bikes were found was a heck of a ways from the entrance of the lake. The large opening of grass near where that building is by Maiden Lane would of been a perfect place for whoever did this to get out and put the bikes where they were found. However, I also don't think they could of parked there without being seen by someone. This is all just IMO since I finally was able to drive by the lake and roads nearby.
     
  12. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    Off Topic sort of:

    <sniped & BBM> read more
    http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_6764dc8c-ed7b-11e2-8c09-001a4bcf887a.html

    DNA sample leads to arrest in John Snyder Jr. murder (1994 Cold Case)

    Mason City(IA) Police and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation have made an arrest in a 19-year-old murder case thanks to DNA profiling.

    Michael Jason Cisneros, 37, formerly of Mason City, has been charged with first-degree murder in the July 1994 death of 20-month-old John Joseph Snyder Jr.


    At the time of the boy&#8217;s death, the boy&#8217;s father John Snyder Sr. told police that he and his son, John Jr., sat outside their home at 10 S. Adams Ave. and watched a thunderstorm on the evening of July 19, 1994.

    Snyder reported his son missing early the next morning. The baby was found dead July 21, snagged on a tree in Willow Creek in northeast Mason City.

    http://www.kaaltv.com/article/stories/S3098004.shtml?cat=10218

    At a Monday news conference, Mason City Police Chief Michael Lashbrook said Cisneros was identified as a suspect through a DNA sample he gave when he was transported to the Iowa Medical and Classification Center in Oakdale in 2012. The match was flagged in the state&#8217;s database in January 2013. The match was found on a DNA sample on the boy&#8217;s pajamas, according to police.

    DNA collected at the time provided evidence that resulted in the arrest of Michael Jason Cisneros last Friday.

    The DNA technology done in 1994 was not able to determine a profile.

    Cisneros was required to provide a DNA sample in December of last year after being convicted of a felony in Iowa.

    Subsequent matching of the DNA in the national database turned up Cisneros as a match.
     
  13. Squeeze

    Squeeze blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda

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    Having ridden in that trail many times, and a couple of times in the last few days, IMO if they rode there, they would have more than likely gotten there via the bike trail, probably all the way from behind Fareway. It would bee faster that way, and less visible except to other people on the trail. Didn't Drew say he took Elizabeth and her friend for ice cream the night before they disappeared? Well it was probably to Four Queens, right next to Fareway and the bike trail. I haven't watched the interview.

    Anyway, my point is, if that spot by the gate was their goal, it would have been better accessed from the east side of the lake. Not sure what verified sightings there have been of the girls around the lake. IIRC, they haven't really confirmed sightings of the girls themselves near the lake. They've only asked for witnesses to come forward.
     
  14. BunnyHop

    BunnyHop Former Member

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    Doesn't the bike path pass many homes and yards?
     
  15. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

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    I've spent the past few days at the hospital - my boyfriend was hit by a car as he crossed the street in front of our house. Anyway, I thought about our girls on the 13th and said a prayer for their families. I hope the coverage surrounding the one year anniversary brings some new tips that will allow LE to bring charges against the killer(s).
     
  16. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Witnesses have come forward stating that they saw the children near the lake close to 1 PM. The cyclist said that he rode North on the bike path at the same time that the children, if they took the bike path, would have been riding South. They should have seen each other if the children took the bike path. The children were also last seen in video cycling West on Brovan, which is the opposite direction of the bike path.

    The latest reports from police relate to an SUV on Arbutus near Meyers Lake. I suppose that could mean that the van was dropping off the bikes or abducting the children.
     
  17. BunnyHop

    BunnyHop Former Member

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    Healing thoughts coming your way.

    :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:
     
  18. superbee

    superbee Active Member

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    Healing thoughts and prayers to your boyfriend and you.
     
  19. cindersoot

    cindersoot Mom to furry kids.

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    Marilynilpa, hope all goes well. Your in my prayers.
     
  20. BunnyHop

    BunnyHop Former Member

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    Marilyn is he OK?

    Best. xo
     
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