IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

Status
Not open for further replies.

pearl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
855
Reaction score
907
I just want to add a few of my thoughts here, my opinions. I may be wrong, but I don't think Klunder is involved with the abduction and murder of Lyric and Elizabeth. How he carried out his abductions seems to me, for lack of a better description, like the proverbial bull in the china shop. Whoever stole Elizabeth and Lyric was a thief in the night kind of person in carrying out the crimes. I've always thought the perp is someone who the girls knew more than just as a casual acquaintance. My personal theory for motive is that these girls knew something damaging about this person(s) and were silenced before they could tell it. I know no facts to back this opinion up. I think the person is well-known to a family member, but have no idea which one it could be. I think the family member doesn't know this and would be totally shocked to find out. I hope LE has looked closely at the adults who interact with children in a group type setting. I also think it possible that if this turned out to be this way, that Elizabeth and Lyric might not have been aware even of the magnitude of their knowledge.
 

Foxfire

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
8,794
Reaction score
217
They took DNA samples during a "routine traffic check"? And arrested him? Doesn't sound very routine to me.

Don't get me wrong, I am very glad they found him and he's off the streets. Sounds like maybe they were actually looking for him though, IMO. I hope the investigators in L&L's case are as persistent, but I hope justice comes a whole lot faster than 20+ years from now!

nikb, the predator's dna was just recently entered into the FBI CODIS DNA databank before the routine traffic stop. A warrant was issued for him & nationwide BOLO due to the CODIS hit.. Many decades old cold cases are being solved due to DNA technology. Serial Killers are being identified, victims identified(NAMUS), and wrongly convicted innocent people are being set free..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics

CODIS is a computer software program that operates local, State, and national databases of DNA profiles from convicted offenders, unsolved crime scene evidence, and missing persons. Every State in the Nation has a statutory provision for the establishment of a DNA database that allows for the collection of DNA profiles from offenders convicted of particular crimes.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics#Iowa

CODIS—NDIS Statistics

Measuring Success
The National DNA Index (NDIS) contains over 10,376,000 offender1 profiles, 1,515,800 arrestee profiles and 493,500 forensic profiles as of May 2013. Ultimately, the success of the CODIS program will be measured by the crimes it helps to solve. CODIS’s primary metric, the “Investigation Aided,” tracks the number of criminal investigations where CODIS has added value to the investigative process. As of May 2013, CODIS has produced over 210,800 hits assisting in more than 202,100 investigations.
 

nikb

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
4,565
Reaction score
14
nikb, the predator's dna was just recently entered into the FBI CODIS DNA databank before the routine traffic stop. A warrant was issued for him & nationwide BOLO due to the CODIS hit.. Many decades old cold cases are being solved due to DNA technology. Serial Killers are being identified, victims identified(NAMUS), and wrongly convicted innocent people are being set free..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics

CODIS is a computer software program that operates local, State, and national databases of DNA profiles from convicted offenders, unsolved crime scene evidence, and missing persons. Every State in the Nation has a statutory provision for the establishment of a DNA database that allows for the collection of DNA profiles from offenders convicted of particular crimes.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics#Iowa

CODIS—NDIS Statistics

Measuring Success
The National DNA Index (NDIS) contains over 10,376,000 offender1 profiles, 1,515,800 arrestee profiles and 493,500 forensic profiles as of May 2013. Ultimately, the success of the CODIS program will be measured by the crimes it helps to solve. CODIS’s primary metric, the “Investigation Aided,” tracks the number of criminal investigations where CODIS has added value to the investigative process. As of May 2013, CODIS has produced over 210,800 hits assisting in more than 202,100 investigations.

Oh, thank you for the explanation! That makes way more sense. I'm all in favor of technology that can be used to help find these people and make everyone else safer. I just couldn't figure out a DNA check at a traffic stop.

I wonder if they knew he was likely to be in this area and selectively chose to have the traffic check at this location just in case.
 

Aymstriss

Active Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
130
Reaction score
92
I just want to add a few of my thoughts here, my opinions. I may be wrong, but I don't think Klunder is involved with the abduction and murder of Lyric and Elizabeth. How he carried out his abductions seems to me, for lack of a better description, like the proverbial bull in the china shop. Whoever stole Elizabeth and Lyric was a thief in the night kind of person in carrying out the crimes. I've always thought the perp is someone who the girls knew more than just as a casual acquaintance. My personal theory for motive is that these girls knew something damaging about this person(s) and were silenced before they could tell it. I know no facts to back this opinion up. I think the person is well-known to a family member, but have no idea which one it could be. I think the family member doesn't know this and would be totally shocked to find out. I hope LE has looked closely at the adults who interact with children in a group type setting. I also think it possible that if this turned out to be this way, that Elizabeth and Lyric might not have been aware even of the magnitude of their knowledge.


I completely agree!!
 

GGE

GGE=GonnaGetEm
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
6,511
Reaction score
107
I always forget this forum exists. I thought for over a year that once a person was found the thread was locked and moved. Didn't realize you could still post until a month or so ago.

Anyway, now that I found my way back here, can anyone tell me if they ever got the results back of the investigation when they were trying to tie in Kathlynn Shepard's killer to our girls in this thread here? Thanks!
 

threecrazykids

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
117
I always forget this forum exists. I thought for over a year that once a person was found the thread was locked and moved. Didn't realize you could still post until a month or so ago.

Anyway, now that I found my way back here, can anyone tell me if they ever got the results back of the investigation when they were trying to tie in Kathlynn Shepard's killer to our girls in this thread here? Thanks!

They may have gotten back the results, however nothing has been reported yet from LE as to whether there is a connection or not.

Which is kind of frustrating for a lot of people considering WEEKS ago they claimed that they would be announcing it within the week...then the phrase "soon" came out...and now they are "still investigating". So, who knows. :facepalm:
 

carbuff

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
27,992
Reaction score
57,115
Website
www.colealicem.com
They may have gotten back the results, however nothing has been reported yet from LE as to whether there is a connection or not.

Which is kind of frustrating for a lot of people considering WEEKS ago they claimed that they would be announcing it within the week...then the phrase "soon" came out...and now they are "still investigating". So, who knows. :facepalm:

I wonder whether that means they think he might be connected to a lot more things than just this case.
 

watcher9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
7,347
Reaction score
8,064
O/T a little.
I was watching the John Gacy story again yesterday on ID and saw that he was once living in Waterloo and convicted of charges of sexual abuse on boys in 1968.
My first thought after recognizing the name of Blackhawk County was that it was possible date-wise for one of his victims to be the perp in this case.
 

Grainne Dhu

Active Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,051
Reaction score
11
I wonder whether that means they think he might be connected to a lot more things than just this case.

I wonder if it means that they haven't found any physical evidence to definitely tie him to this case but just enough coincidental evidence to keep them trying.

I think it was the Green River case where LE had one guy who was a suspect for literally years because he happened to be in the vicinity of a few of the victims right before they disappeared and had ties to one of the known dump sites. No real forensic evidence but just enough coincidences to keep him on the screen for years.

Turned out it really was all just weird coincidences. Very frustrating both for LE and the guy who knew he was a suspect.

I've noticed over the years following crime that there is usually at least one coincidence per case that means nothing.

Would Klunder have abducted Elizabeth and Lyric if he had the chance? No doubt in my mind that he would have. Did he have that opportunity? That's something I cannot guess at this point.
 

Bootsctr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
8,424
Reaction score
260
I wonder if it means that they haven't found any physical evidence to definitely tie him to this case but just enough coincidental evidence to keep them trying.

I think it was the Green River case where LE had one guy who was a suspect for literally years because he happened to be in the vicinity of a few of the victims right before they disappeared and had ties to one of the known dump sites. No real forensic evidence but just enough coincidences to keep him on the screen for years.

Turned out it really was all just weird coincidences. Very frustrating both for LE and the guy who knew he was a suspect.

I've noticed over the years following crime that there is usually at least one coincidence per case that means nothing.

Would Klunder have abducted Elizabeth and Lyric if he had the chance? No doubt in my mind that he would have. Did he have that opportunity? That's something I cannot guess at this point.

Thank you Grainne Dhu for saying so eloquently what I've been thinking, but have not been successful putting into words. I believe Klunder is a coincidence - a big, SCARY coincidence. I, too, absolutely believe Klunder would have abducted Elizabeth and Lyric if he happened upon them at Meyers Lake. LE is having a hard time proving it though, and I just feel if it was more than a coincidence, the evidence would have shown itself by now.

I believe Klunder might have been spurred into abducting Kathlynn and D by his depraved thoughts of what might have happened to Elizabeth and Lyric - sort of a copy cat. I have a hard time believing his father-in-law or mother-in-law would not have watched someone who had spent as much time in prison as Klunder had without a period of supervision. I'm sure on paper he was a model prisoner and he seemed to know how to say all the right things to be allowed back into society a free man. Of course, for all I know he simply told his wife and her family that he had spent time in prison, but he was rehabilitated and they never questioned what he was in prison for - I pray that is not the case. :please:
 

RodgerD

Inactive
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Sorry I didn't know the rules, So Klunder has been in the news so I will say this. I have a sixth sense if you will, not psychic, more common sense. Maybe because of what I went through as a child with my sister. My simple point here is Klunder, yes, would have snatched the girls up from the park but he would not have been able to drive them 20 plus miles north of there and put them in an unfamiliar place to him, so they would not be found for months, It was said that if the hunters had went five feet in either direction, the girl would not even have been found then. This is just not the work of someone who did not know 7 bridges park. Sorry. This is someone who knew the park well and had been there several times in the past. MAYBE someone who had a family member that lived within four miles of the park and also had an address right across from Meyers Lake. Get where I am going with this. I think I have stayed within the rules, not mentioning anyones name except Klunder who has been in the news. Thank you and goodnight. Whoever has info that wants to share with me, private message me, but this is what my gut is telling me and I have been right before ie: Katrina Smith case. Thank you all. Rodger D
 

carbuff

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
27,992
Reaction score
57,115
Website
www.colealicem.com
I agree that it's entirely possible Klunder is just a big coincidence. If he's not, and they do find hard evidence he's guilty, that would mean some other things that seem like important clues are only coincidence.

Either way, it's easy to give the perp too much credit for cleverness when it might have been just blind luck that nobody saw him/her, or that s/he happened to know where 7 Bridges was because somebody in a bar talked about it one time (I made that example up), or that nobody remembered a car parked in the wrong spot.

I think at least a couple of the RSO's we talked about early on would fit the same general profile as Klunder.
 

Squeeze

blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
861
Reaction score
0
Do you happen to know if this particular person was at the memorial ride?
 

RodgerD

Inactive
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
I do not know. I did not see this person but like I said I had a strange feeling it was being watched from afar. So creepy, it kept me looking around. At my ride on the 17th, I am going to brief like 10 people, friends of mine from Rockford, to not only watch my back, but to be on the lookout for this POI and a few others I did not see at the ride and drive for the girls. I have pictures of them all to brief my friends.
 

georger

New Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
1
Turned out it really was all just weird coincidences. Very frustrating both for LE and the guy who knew he was a suspect.

I've noticed over the years following crime that there is usually at least one coincidence per case that means nothing.

Would Klunder have abducted Elizabeth and Lyric if he had the chance? No doubt in my mind that he would have. Did he have that opportunity? That's something I cannot guess at this point.[/quote]

Ive leaned the same direction. At first I was hot to find a connection. It's
LE's lack of activity which now has me convinced there is no easy connection to announce - otherwise they would have been hot to make
an announcement and have this over with ...

I follow the crows! I watch and listen ...

:seeya:
 

Grainne Dhu

Active Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,051
Reaction score
11
Thank you Grainne Dhu for saying so eloquently what I've been thinking, but have not been successful putting into words. I believe Klunder is a coincidence - a big, SCARY coincidence. I, too, absolutely believe Klunder would have abducted Elizabeth and Lyric if he happened upon them at Meyers Lake. LE is having a hard time proving it though, and I just feel if it was more than a coincidence, the evidence would have shown itself by now.

I believe Klunder might have been spurred into abducting Kathlynn and D by his depraved thoughts of what might have happened to Elizabeth and Lyric - sort of a copy cat. I have a hard time believing his father-in-law or mother-in-law would not have watched someone who had spent as much time in prison as Klunder had without a period of supervision. I'm sure on paper he was a model prisoner and he seemed to know how to say all the right things to be allowed back into society a free man. Of course, for all I know he simply told his wife and her family that he had spent time in prison, but he was rehabilitated and they never questioned what he was in prison for - I pray that is not the case. :please:

BBM

What you wrote about the possibility of Klunder committing a copycat crime suddenly made me see things from a slightly different perspective. And that is that when he abducted Kathlynn and D, the way he did it read almost like a theory of how Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted.

As for his in-laws, well, I'm not sure how to put this politely and respectfully. Klunder did not strike me as being unusually intelligent, in fact, he seemed perhaps a little less intelligent than average. It makes me wonder if he was able to fool his wife and in-laws because perhaps they weren't unusually intelligent either.

If, for instance, they weren't computer savvy or used to using the internet, they may not have realised that it is possible to find out about things like criminal history for free via easily accessible online sources.
 

threecrazykids

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
117
Sorry I didn't know the rules, So Klunder has been in the news so I will say this. I have a sixth sense if you will, not psychic, more common sense. Maybe because of what I went through as a child with my sister. My simple point here is Klunder, yes, would have snatched the girls up from the park but he would not have been able to drive them 20 plus miles north of there and put them in an unfamiliar place to him, so they would not be found for months, It was said that if the hunters had went five feet in either direction, the girl would not even have been found then. This is just not the work of someone who did not know 7 bridges park. Sorry. This is someone who knew the park well and had been there several times in the past. MAYBE someone who had a family member that lived within four miles of the park and also had an address right across from Meyers Lake. Get where I am going with this. I think I have stayed within the rules, not mentioning anyones name except Klunder who has been in the news. Thank you and goodnight. Whoever has info that wants to share with me, private message me, but this is what my gut is telling me and I have been right before ie: Katrina Smith case. Thank you all. Rodger D

Welcome! Thanks for joining - always good to have new people on board. :seeya:

I am just curious - if you have these suspicions, and are friends with the Collins' (who are also close friends with the investigators in this case)...and please don't take this wrong...but why are there still suspicions? Have you expressed these "hinky feelings" to any investigators...or at least the Collins' family? Those are fairly compelling circumstances/coincidences and should be at least looked into.

I think at this point, ANYTHING that is remotely suspicious or coincidental should be brought to LE's attention.

If you have NOT brought this to anyone's attention...can I ask why?
 

Sunlight

New Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
0
RodgerD said, "This is just not the work of someone who did not know 7 bridges park. Sorry. This is someone who knew the park well and had been there several times in the past."

Klunder may have been familiar with the park at one time or another because,

"Investigators say they are looking into whether Klunder could be linked to the slaying of two cousins, ages 8 and 10, who vanished last summer while riding bikes in Evansdale. In the 1980s, records show he lived at a residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County, where the cousins’ bodies were found in December."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ne...cle_1042c3a8-c1fa-11e2-8e63-0019bb2963f4.html
 

Bootsctr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
8,424
Reaction score
260
BBM

What you wrote about the possibility of Klunder committing a copycat crime suddenly made me see things from a slightly different perspective. And that is that when he abducted Kathlynn and D, the way he did it read almost like a theory of how Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted.

As for his in-laws, well, I'm not sure how to put this politely and respectfully. Klunder did not strike me as being unusually intelligent, in fact, he seemed perhaps a little less intelligent than average. It makes me wonder if he was able to fool his wife and in-laws because perhaps they weren't unusually intelligent either.

If, for instance, they weren't computer savvy or used to using the internet, they may not have realised that it is possible to find out about things like criminal history for free via easily accessible online sources.

Whomever said "bull in a china shop" is hitting me like a ton of bricks right now - :banghead: He was not mentally capable of planning an abduction. The only thing different in this crime than the previous ones was that he did lure the girls with asking them if they wanted to make some money - not very sophisticated, but it worked. Previously, he knew one way to get his victims, snatch them when you see them. I feel that if he had planned Kathlynn and D's abduction even a little, he might have gotten away with their murders too. He didn't even have the patience or the mental capacity. The person who killed Elizabeth and Lyric was very methodical. I would say probably has a higher IQ than the average RSO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top