IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

[nikb]

This might be the link.


"The little girl told police the man approached her as she was going to get her bicycle outside her grandma's house.

"You're pretty and I think I'm going to keep you," the man said.

Harold Leroy Herr, 73, then grabbed the 5-year-old child by her neck, forced her into his car, threatened to kill her unless she "got naked" and listened to him, and sexually assaulted her Thursday, police said.

Herr bought the child chocolate ice cream and dropped her back off in her grandma's Lancaster Township neighborhood a few hours later, police said

Read more: http://lancasteronline.com/article/...assault-of-5-year-old-girl.html#ixzz2ZWSfWED7

Thanks! I think.. shudder. I think you're probably right this is the article. Yikes.

 

[georger]

My :twocents:

Klunder is not the perp in the girls case; and -

Whatever is going on with Hedlund being fired, you can be assured it's not actually about someone using the company car...these sorts of battles usually have a long and ugly history of egos clashing.

None of which is reassuring for the folks in Iowa nor us who would like L&L's case prioritised, not wayyyy down the list after internal bickering and right fighting.

I've worked for gubmint. There's always layers within layers of alleged truth, secret handshakes, mates rates, always ego driven, usually men acting like tweenagers even though they hold positions of considerable power.

:cow:

Has the girl's case been hijacked? By politics?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Kidnapping should get life in prison, regardless if the victim was "seriously" injured or not, regardless of the victim's age.

Sexual assault of a child should get life in prison.

So anyone who kidnaps or even lures a child gets life. Anyone who sexually assaults a child, even in the own child's bed, gets life.

How many sex offenders would still be locked up right now if this were the case??

Why is this not the case?

Why do we tolerate this??

ITA, there needs to be a total revamp of the laws.

I think they should get rid of the "degrees", first degree kidnap, second degree and so on.

It's either kidnap or it's not.

Same with offences against children, of any type. It's not the degree of harm caused, it's the fact the offence occurred in the first place that needs to be punished.

Someone somewhere is also talking about abolishing "parole", life meaning life. Couldn't happen soon enough for me.

I'm the "build bigger jails" type.

lease:

 

[Squeeze]

My :twocents:

Klunder is not the perp in the girls case; and -

Whatever is going on with Hedlund being fired, you can be assured it's not actually about someone using the company car...these sorts of battles usually have a long and ugly history of egos clashing.

None of which is reassuring for the folks in Iowa nor us who would like L&L's case prioritised, not wayyyy down the list after internal bickering and right fighting.

I've worked for gubmint. There's always layers within layers of alleged truth, secret handshakes, mates rates, always ego driven, usually men acting like tweenagers even though they hold positions of considerable power.

:cow:

It happens in any size workplace. They keep track of those minor infractions, and when something comes about, those minor infractions turn into excuses to give the boot. And it can get pretty ugly.

Just heard on the news that Branstads approval rating is dropping, as is his chances of getting re-elected. Thank God. Oh, and by the way, the firing was "fair and just", according to the report that HE read that WE cannot. Of course it was.

As for Hedlund, I think he will still come out ahead. He'll get a settlement and probably a better job, because if all the publicity.

 

[24Roses]

Any chance you could link the article? I found a bunch of articles on that site but none that seemed to talk about this. A link would be much appreciated - thanks!

Sorry, but I don't know how. Dotr did post the correct link, so a big thank you!

 

[Bythebook]

Sorry, but I don't know how. Dotr did post the correct link, so a big thank you!

When you find an article, highlight the heading (such as www.denverpost.com) etc. Right click on it, click copy. Go back to websleuths, find your article, right click in the posting box, click paste. Give a space or two and you can type some information about the article. Hope this helps.

 

[24Roses]

When you find an article, highlight the heading (such as www.denverpost.com) etc. Right click on it, click copy. Go back to websleuths, find your article, right click in the posting box, click paste. Give a space or two and you can type some information about the article. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the explanation. I will try it sometime and see how it goes.

 

[daisynae]

ITA, there needs to be a total revamp of the laws.

I think they should get rid of the "degrees", first degree kidnap, second degree and so on.

It's either kidnap or it's not.

Same with offences against children, of any type. It's not the degree of harm caused, it's the fact the offence occurred in the first place that needs to be punished.

Someone somewhere is also talking about abolishing "parole", life meaning life. Couldn't happen soon enough for me.

I'm the "build bigger jails" type.

lease:

I agree with everything you said 100%

 

[Snowbunny]

I wonder how many more people like Klunder Iowa has let out of jail? This is absolutely absurd! Our children need to be protected and so does our public!

 

[nikb]

ITA, there needs to be a total revamp of the laws.

I think they should get rid of the "degrees", first degree kidnap, second degree and so on.

It's either kidnap or it's not.

Same with offences against children, of any type. It's not the degree of harm caused, it's the fact the offence occurred in the first place that needs to be punished.

Someone somewhere is also talking about abolishing "parole", life meaning life. Couldn't happen soon enough for me.

I'm the "build bigger jails" type.

lease:

I soo agree with you! To take it a step further, kick out the people who are in for minor drug offenses, and make room for those who've done much worse. I'm in California and last I heard over 50% of the people in our jails are there for possession of prescription drugs. I know that's a crime too but seriously, a kidnapper IMO "needs" that spot in jail a whole lot more than the guy who took some Oxycontin.

Totally agree on the "degrees" of kidnapping and other violent crimes. I was listening to Ariel Castro's sentencing the other day and I couldn't believe how many various laws were cited for rape, kidnap, etc. It's kidnapping or it's not, it's rape or it's not, IMO. I disagree with you on one small thing which is the age of the victim. I really don't care if they're 17 or 18 (or 28, 38, 68...), the crime's the same IMO.

I saw "truth in sentencing" (in other words "life means life!") on another thread, and it can't happen soon enough IMO, like you said.

I sure hope the perp in this case can be found AND sentenced to a true life sentence, soon. Please.

 

[B4igo2it]

the laws have become so complex and confusing for jurors that it is hard to determine if the law fits the crime and that is the "loop hole" in sentencing for the crime ... it is almost as if the laws are created to lesson the time actually served. smh

 

[song22]

I wonder how many more people like Klunder Iowa has let out of jail? This is absolutely absurd! Our children need to be protected and so does our public!

Hey everyone. I've been following this case from nearly the beginning, but I'm usually very quiet on Websleuths.

I live not too far away in Iowa. This was my first case on WS and really knocked my heart into pieces. I bawled so hard when they were found and that was an unexpected reaction for me--I mean, I knew what the outcome would be, so I was surprised when I reacted the way I did. These girls really got in deep to my heart.

One thing I wish, wish, wish would be that a journalist (are there any real ones left?) would do a serious investigative report on other perps who have gotten out of jail with similar case histories as Klunder. How many are in our communities?

Also wanted to put a shout out to daisymae. I've also been keeping an eye on the Craigslist guy. (I know, eye rolls.) Would any of you change your mind about him if you knew he was a childhood/teen friend of Drew and Heather's? What if you knew he was presently good friends with some close friends of theirs? I'm not saying he is, just speculating but if you knew he was in that kind of relationship and writing these poems about abduction and murder and rape, would it raise your hinky meter more?

I personally strongly suspect Klunder and don't think LE would have ruled him out by now or let us know.

Just some more thoughts from someone on the periphery. I don't like to intrude because I recognize what a tight community you all have become, sitting vigil together, waiting for justice. I know it can be annoying when outsiders pop in who haven't been putting in the work all along bouncing around ideas. JMO.

 

[Squeeze]

Hey everyone. I've been following this case from nearly the beginning, but I'm usually very quiet on Websleuths.

I live not too far away in Iowa. This was my first case on WS and really knocked my heart into pieces. I bawled so hard when they were found and that was an unexpected reaction for me--I mean, I knew what the outcome would be, so I was surprised when I reacted the way I did. These girls really got in deep to my heart.

One thing I wish, wish, wish would be that a journalist (are there any real ones left?) would do a serious investigative report on other perps who have gotten out of jail with similar case histories as Klunder. How many are in our communities?

Also wanted to put a shout out to daisymae. I've also been keeping an eye on the Craigslist guy. (I know, eye rolls.) Would any of you change your mind about him if you knew he was a childhood/teen friend of Drew and Heather's? What if you knew he was presently good friends with some close friends of theirs? I'm not saying he is, just speculating but if you knew he was in that kind of relationship and writing these poems about abduction and murder and rape, would it raise your hinky meter more?

I personally strongly suspect Klunder and don't think LE would have ruled him out by now or let us know.

Just some more thoughts from someone on the periphery. I don't like to intrude because I recognize what a tight community you all have become, sitting vigil together, waiting for justice. I know it can be annoying when outsiders pop in who haven't been putting in the work all along bouncing around ideas. JMO.

Song22, your comments are always welcome. Do not feel like an outsider!! This, too, is my first Websleuths case. I've since started following a few others, but since I'm a local, this case is obviously close to my heart as well.

As for the craigslist guy, I was aware of his relationship to Drew from what I've read on Facebook. I know that he has been reported. I dont know what, if anything, has come off that. I'm sure that LE has their eyes on him. I haven't had the nerve to actually read the posts.

Honestly, please feel free to share. Anytime.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Hey everyone. I've been following this case from nearly the beginning, but I'm usually very quiet on Websleuths.

I live not too far away in Iowa. This was my first case on WS and really knocked my heart into pieces. I bawled so hard when they were found and that was an unexpected reaction for me--I mean, I knew what the outcome would be, so I was surprised when I reacted the way I did. These girls really got in deep to my heart.

One thing I wish, wish, wish would be that a journalist (are there any real ones left?) would do a serious investigative report on other perps who have gotten out of jail with similar case histories as Klunder. How many are in our communities?

Also wanted to put a shout out to daisymae. I've also been keeping an eye on the Craigslist guy. (I know, eye rolls.) Would any of you change your mind about him if you knew he was a childhood/teen friend of Drew and Heather's? What if you knew he was presently good friends with some close friends of theirs? I'm not saying he is, just speculating but if you knew he was in that kind of relationship and writing these poems about abduction and murder and rape, would it raise your hinky meter more?

I personally strongly suspect Klunder and don't think LE would have ruled him out by now or let us know.

Just some more thoughts from someone on the periphery. I don't like to intrude because I recognize what a tight community you all have become, sitting vigil together, waiting for justice. I know it can be annoying when outsiders pop in who haven't been putting in the work all along bouncing around ideas. JMO.

First of all there are no outsiders here!!!

Everyone who turns up here every day is just desperate for something new, even if it is only a new opinion.

I love your wording "sitting vigil together". We all are, aren't we? Those of us who care about these girls and all the other lost children.

Sit with us, please. We need you, so do the girls.

:cow:

 

[Bootsctr]

First of all there are no outsiders here!!!

Everyone who turns up here every day is just desperate for something new, even if it is only a new opinion.

I love your wording "sitting vigil together". We all are, aren't we? Those of us who care about these girls and all the other lost children.

Sit with us, please. We need you, so do the girls.

:cow:

A wonderful post SS! You too Squeeze! I too feel like we are bonded. Waiting for news.... waiting for justice.... hoping and praying that there will be no more victims..... that there will be an end and we will know who committed this horrible crime. I appreciate everyone who posts here on Lyric and Lizzy's threads. I do not want them to be forgotten. I want their lives to have meant something. I want to know who did this to them and I want them to pay for taking two precious lives before they ever had a chance to experience life.... to graduate high school..... to have boyfriends..... to go to college..... to get married.... to have babies of their own. It's not fair! God help me! I'm so angry they will never do anything of those things that we take for granted every single damn day! Who should I be angry at? The system? Klunder? I hate him for what he did to Kathlynn, but I really do not think he is responsible for Lyric and Elizabeth. I need to know who did this. I need them to pay for their taking the lives of two innocent girls. :stormingmad:

 

[Bootsctr]

Hey Bunny...
I have been around reading..
I hope we have something to report soon I am praying everyday that something breaks in this case...
I will comment a little more in the future.

I'm with BunnyHop too! We have missed you Daisynae! Please do post more!
:seeya:

 

[Bootsctr]

Hey everyone. I've been following this case from nearly the beginning, but I'm usually very quiet on Websleuths.

I live not too far away in Iowa. This was my first case on WS and really knocked my heart into pieces. I bawled so hard when they were found and that was an unexpected reaction for me--I mean, I knew what the outcome would be, so I was surprised when I reacted the way I did. These girls really got in deep to my heart.

One thing I wish, wish, wish would be that a journalist (are there any real ones left?) would do a serious investigative report on other perps who have gotten out of jail with similar case histories as Klunder. How many are in our communities?

Also wanted to put a shout out to daisymae. I've also been keeping an eye on the Craigslist guy. (I know, eye rolls.) Would any of you change your mind about him if you knew he was a childhood/teen friend of Drew and Heather's? What if you knew he was presently good friends with some close friends of theirs? I'm not saying he is, just speculating but if you knew he was in that kind of relationship and writing these poems about abduction and murder and rape, would it raise your hinky meter more?

I personally strongly suspect Klunder and don't think LE would have ruled him out by now or let us know.

Just some more thoughts from someone on the periphery. I don't like to intrude because I recognize what a tight community you all have become, sitting vigil together, waiting for justice. I know it can be annoying when outsiders pop in who haven't been putting in the work all along bouncing around ideas. JMO.

Ditto to Sapphire Steel's post! And my own :twocents: Everyone who posts here is here for our girls! :tyou: :heartbeat: Everyone's opinion counts! Please know that posters like you are so very important to us all here at WebSleuths. You read, you digest, you understand! You give us a fresh insight and new perspectives.

 

[Bootsctr]

If you go back to my videos you can see that I noted one on one of the trees.

However, PRIOR to them being found there, I'm not sure there would be any just "hangin' around". Even though it's a public access for hunting, most people aren't going to just leave a deer cam out there. Most people who hunt deer (that use deer cams) are going to put the cams on private property...otherwise they are really apt to be stolen.

I don't doubt for one second those were placed there by LE. I only saw one there, but I would also put money on it that there were more that I didn't see.

Now (only because I feel like there isn't much new to talk about), here is another thing that had me wondering after we saw the deer cams:

What is LE's point of putting up the deer cam at 7 Bridges? hmmmm....:waitasec:

Do they have an idea of who did it so they are hoping to catch them go back to the scene?

Do they NOT have an idea who did it and are hoping they return to the scene? I can tell you, I didn't receive a call or anything from LE after visiting the site...so if they aren't checking on random people then what are they looking for with these cams?

IF (for the sake of argument) someone from the family WAS suspected, and returned to the scene, what would the cam show? That would be easily explainable for that person to show up there to mourn or just look at the site.

So I ask...what does LE gain from the deer cams being out there?

Just wanted to say thanks again for those AMAZING videos and your thoughts and your excellent narrative that accompanied the videos! You Rock 3CK! :rockon:

P.S.: A big thanks to your sweet hubby for assisting you!

P.S.S.: A HUUUUUUGGGEE thanks to Cinder too for her wonderful pictures and insight into this case! I could not have asked to have met some of the most FABULOUS websleuthers in my first case here at WebSleuths! Every single one of you are my heros! :blowkiss::loveyou::heartluv::skip::thewave::hero::grouphug:

 

[Bootsctr]

Lately, I have been paying attention to various white vans - they were owned/operated by personnel of schools/colleges, federal agencies, law enforcement, plumbers, and a carpet/flooring crew just to name a few. Then I realized that most of these professions and the likes I saw were models newer than the 90s.
I then focused my attention to older ones on the road and have not seen any in the past week. An older van should stick out like a sore thumb and the Evansdale/Waterloo community needs to keep their eyes open and be diligent in their surroundings.

I agree an older van might stick out like a sore thumb.... but, on the other hand, a man like Klunder should have stuck out like a sore thumb too. He was over 6 feet tall and weighed over 200 pounds and his ears stuck out like Dumbo! When I saw his RSO photo, I wondered if he had put something behind his ears to make them stick out that far. I just think if I had seen someone like him I definitely would have remembered him.... :twocents:

 

[Bootsctr]

I have to say I am a bit shocked.
What is everyone's opinion:
Do you all think this person is that sophisticated of a criminal?
Or do you think they are very controlling and keeping all that know quiet and in fear?
Do you think it's right under our noses and we do not see it?
Do you think they are a loaner and no one else knows?
Do you think if they found the vehicle they would find more evidence?

Just my opinion....:moo: and :twocents: (excellent questions palaminodee btw)

1. No, I don't think this person is that sophisticated of a criminal. I do think more than one person was involved, and none of them were that sophisticated.
2. I think they are all keeping it very quiet because if one person spills the beans, the whole lot of them will go down.
3. Not a loner type person, but most definitely a desperate person and/or persons. I have not ruled out money as being a motive of some of the people involved, but ultimately not the ulterior motive.
4. Finding the vehicle might help. It might help answer the question if the girls' bikes were staged versus not staged, and of course then the whole story might be "spilled."

I also wonder would a grieving person act the same as a grieving, but also guilty person - someone who just wasn't privy to all the information of the girls' abduction. Or, would someone grieving just choose to not think about it at all.

For what it's worth, I hope I have to eat my words. lease: :jail: