IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

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threecrazykids

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You can't try a dead person in this country, so yes, Klunder will technically never be more than a suspect. They can close the files and mark the case closed, though.

Ok, good. I obviously know they can't try Klunder, nor convict him -however - it still irks me that LE won't call him what he is.

I just feel it's disrespectful to the victims left behind simply because he chose to opt out of justice.
 

SapphireSteel

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The whole thing is horrific especially as he's taken any unknown victims with him.

The victims families can move forward with healing if he's dead though. It puts an end to things for them.
 

watcher9

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RANT AHEAD :truce:


If this little snippet doesn't solidify the lack of certainty about LE 'round here, I don't know what will:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Kath...-Speak-with-Lawmakers-Thursday-241380371.html

SBM:
Authorities said Michael Klunder is considered the suspect in the case. He had been released early from prison after serving time in a different kidnapping case.

SUSPECT? REALLY?!! Still a SUSPECT? :banghead:
What more does LE need on Klunder to actually freaking say the words that he was THE KILLER of Kathlynn, ABDUCTOR of D, and not continue to pussyfoot around and call him a suspect?

Whatever you do LE, do NOT go out on a limb and call him THE killer...because....what?...STILL not quite sure on Kathlynn's case either?!

Words fail me...:banghead:


Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It's not what I want to hear though.

It would seem that Dayton LE could say that they know Klunder abducted both girls and killed Kathlynn but they could not convict him in a court of law since he committed suicide. Then, they could officially close the case.

But if Dayton officials will not officially connect Klunder to the killing of Kathlynn and the abduction of D simply because he killed himself, I assume that no other LE will officially connect him to their cases either. All we could ever hope for is if they would name him as a possible suspect in other cases, but because Klunder took the easy way out, it looks like everything must be dead in the water now. Even if they suspect someone else and charge that person, the defense will always throw out Klunder's name for reasonable doubt.

I know there must be other cases where this has happened. Does anyone know of a particular case where this has come up and how it was resolved?
 

RNER

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I'm right there with you. I don't think this case will be solved in the near future. I don't believe LE stopped asking for help b/c they have all the answers, they didn't ask for much help to begin with and have been very quiet from the beginning. I don't think they had a clue the girls were abducted, I don't think they had any idea what happened until their bodies were found.

I am not trying to imply the LE dept is inept but I just don't think they had many clues or looked for the right clues. IMO, they thought the girls drowned and started the investigation with that theory in mind.

I had followed several cases before Jessica Ridgeway, she was the first case I followed where an arrest was made. It was so shocking, I didn't even know what happened after an arrest was made b/c all of the cases I'd followed weren't solved. To me Lyric & Elizabeth is another unsolved case.


Interesting info here...http://projects.scrippsnews.com/story/child-dies-every-day-unsolved-homicide/

Police report they don't know who committed more than 10,700 killings of children from 1980 through 2008. Of the 51,753 murders of juveniles 17 or younger, nearly 21 percent were unsolved.

I agree with your comments...however, looking at it from another angle...if 21% were unsolved, then 79% were solved.
And of those 21%, I wonder how many parents, neighbors, friends, and community of the victims just gave up, quit searching for answers, and appeared content to accept that their child was murdered by someone, somewhere, in some unknown manner? I have never had a child kidnapped or murdered, but I am pretty sure that my community, my friends, my family and myself would do everything and anything to find out the truth. I just don't see it here... and that observation, above all the other bizarre circumstances in this case, angers me! Accept the murders, but expect answers and justice!
 

RNER

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Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It's not what I want to hear though.

It would seem that Dayton LE could say that they know Klunder abducted both girls and killed Kathlynn but they could not convict him in a court of law since he committed suicide. Then, they could officially close the case.

But if Dayton officials will not officially connect Klunder to the killing of Kathlynn and the abduction of D simply because he killed himself, I assume that no other LE will officially connect him to their cases either. All we could ever hope for is if they would name him as a possible suspect in other cases, but because Klunder took the easy way out, it looks like everything must be dead in the water now. Even if they suspect someone else and charge that person, the defense will always throw out Klunder's name for reasonable doubt.


I know there must be other cases where this has happened. Does anyone know of a particular case where this has come up and how it was resolved?

There have been many murder-suicide cases where the murderer kills himself after killing someone else. Although the case obviously doesn't go to trial, the murderer is classified as the murderer and the victim's cause of death is homicide.
I guess if the murderer had been SUSPECTED of killing others, but there was no proof or evidence or an arrest prior to his suicide, the case would be unsolved, unless it could later be proven that he/she committed the murder.
 

threecrazykids

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Question - so if they can close the Klunder case with K&D how can one check if it's officially "closed"?

I am not sure what constitutes enough evidence to close the case. Anyone know?
 

carbuff

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Question - so if they can close the Klunder case with K&D how can one check if it's officially "closed"?

I am not sure what constitutes enough evidence to close the case. Anyone know?

It's totally up to the individual agency. Some organizations close any case that's over a certain number of years old.
 

SapphireSteel

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FWIW I think L&L's case will never be closed.

I think LE would have seized on Klunder if they truly "don't have a clue", just to get it off the unsolved list if nothing else.

Instead of saying "we suspect Klunder too" they said "we didn't even look at him in the first place".

Which all goes to indicate a current and focused investigation into a non-Klunder perp.

IMO of course.
 

SapphireSteel

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:seeya:
So no DNA tests would be run, or no "closing of the case" with actual PROOF that he did it even for D's "case" - she's still alive.

Yeah its not perfect but it worked OK for 800 years of trials without the benefit of DNA testing to prove it all.

The only thing DNA proves is that its DNA. It doesn't prove guilt, by itself. It can be planted at a scene or transferred a million ways.
 

dotr

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Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It's not what I want to hear though.

It would seem that Dayton LE could say that they know Klunder abducted both girls and killed Kathlynn but they could not convict him in a court of law since he committed suicide. Then, they could officially close the case.

But if Dayton officials will not officially connect Klunder to the killing of Kathlynn and the abduction of D simply because he killed himself, I assume that no other LE will officially connect him to their cases either. All we could ever hope for is if they would name him as a possible suspect in other cases, but because Klunder took the easy way out, it looks like everything must be dead in the water now. Even if they suspect someone else and charge that person, the defense will always throw out Klunder's name for reasonable doubt.

I know there must be other cases where this has happened. Does anyone know of a particular case where this has come up and how it was resolved?

This case involving missing and presumed murdered, U of T student Elizabeth Bain, has some similar elements minus the suicide.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103300&highlight=elizabeth+bain
 

Dr. Know?

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JC's open 3rd degree burglary case has been updated. Looks like the judge's order for continuance this time.

ORDER FOR CONTINUANCE DALRYMPLE JOEL A 01/15/2014 01/17/2014 01/17/2014
Comments: 2/13/14 @ 10:30 AM FOR PTC & 2/18/14 @ 9 AM FOR TRL

ORDER FOR PRETRIAL CONFERENCE COIL JAMES D. 12/12/2013 12/16/2013 12/16/2013
Comments: 1/16/14 @ 10:30 AM & TRL 1/21/14 @ 9 AM

https://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us/ESAWebApp/SelectFrame
 

Just Pat 22

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God is in charge of all things these girls case's also . The perp if alive will be caught the perp if dead will be proved . This case will be solved it will be closed and not with any dishonesty . There not cheating our Girl's out of this , God guide the mind's of the Evansdale, Iowa police force to solve the horrific crime these girls deserved life it will be two years this July 13th 20012 since they were taken . From our most sincere heart give us answers. Thank you Jesus Amen
 

cindersoot

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Waiting for an answer I asked one of the hunters that found the girls bodies. I asked how the bodies were found. Keep your fingers crossed I get an answer.
 

Just Pat 22

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Hi Cinder good to see you great work hope youget and answer .You are such a devotee God Bless
 

Dr. Know?

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This is all the info on twitter that shows up about Kathlynn's family speaking out about Klunder. Guess it will be sometime today on WHO-HD.

Jodi Whitworth ‏@jlwhit09 · 4m
Kathlynn Shepard's family says Michael Klunder was on a mission to kidnap. The Shepard's release new info about the 5/20 kidnapping @WHOhd

https://twitter.com/jlwhit09
 

palaminodee

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wow, what brave parents...so sad their sweet daughter had to die to change prison sentences for these individuals. And the other daughter has to live with the creep approaching her as well?!
If going after the other daughter is not proof of their "sickness", I do not know what is.
I do not believe they can be "reformed". JMO
 

cindersoot

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I have info to show authorites and cannot get anyone to respond to my emails. Makes me think they already have a suspect. IDK
 

watcher9

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I have info to show authorites and cannot get anyone to respond to my emails. Makes me think they already have a suspect. IDK

I don't know if you are trying to reach Black Hawk or Evansdale or FBI but here's the link to BH with some numbers to call. Good Luck!

http://www.bhcso.org/ContentPage.aspx?name=reportyou

I am anxiously awaiting what your info is, but understand it may be something that can't be released to the public yet.
I will just wait for you to post when you are ready, but hurry up!
 
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