Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by bessie, Jun 22, 2014.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    In Memory of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook


    [​IMG]
    "Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
    -Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

    Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012
    http://www.bhcso.org/
    http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html
    http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

    IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Scanner Thread - What's Poster in the Scanner Thread, Stays in the Scanner Thread

    Case Map by poster hollye

    Amandareckonwith's case archive

    Related: IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    and Hollye's Case Map

    RSO Rules: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry.

    It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.


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  2. Squeeze

    Squeeze blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda

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    LE hasn't stated that 7 bridges was a dumping ground, to my knowledge, have they? If they were shot or stabbed, and there was a distinct lack of blood in the soil around them, then that would show that it was not the murder site. But if they were strangled, they probably wouldn't know for sure.
     
  3. alliemay

    alliemay Active Member

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    I think it was just implied by a reporter that was either close to the scene or close to the scene, I can't remember now.
     
  4. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    They've never stated either way that I'm aware of, though I thought some of what they did say implied there was no other crime scene.
     
  5. threecrazykids

    threecrazykids Well-Known Member

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    Yep!

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

    JON LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, Jane. Well, first of all, thoughts and prayers go out to this family for this terrible loss. Police can`t say it, but this is a double murder investigation at this point.

    I`ve been talking to police sources for the past 24 hours or so, and they stress to me that they have a lot of information, but the reason why they are not releasing much of it is because much it`s information that only the killer or killers would know, and they do not want to jeopardize the investigation.

    That said, my sources tell me the following, which we can report: No. 1, bodies were not found, according to my sources, smack dab next to each other. They were found about 40 to 50 feet next to each other.

    The second key point is the theory right now is that this was the dump site. That they are looking for the primary murder scene. In other words, where the bodies were found is not where these two little girls were killed.


    I do take investigative reports with a grain of salt...however SOMEONE (whomever their "source is") had obviously gotten close enough to the crime scene to know they were found a distance apart.

    Also, by stating they were looking for the primary crime scene makes me think there was NOT evidence at the scene to match an obvious COD (say...no blood in the area, but had gunshot wounds - or something like that).

    I guess I kind of assumed that for this person to be close enough to the scene, they likely had some sort of authority, as LE isn't going to let anyone else back there.

    I guess, for me, I sort of deduced SOME sort of validity to the reports because I would think the first assumption would have been that they were brought there alive and killed right there. Something made someone say this wasn't the spot they were killed...and I can't think of a reason to assume this without some evidence to support that...kwim?
     
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  6. AmandaReckonwith

    AmandaReckonwith Defective Detective

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  7. Coldpizza

    Coldpizza WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please continue here for Elizabeth and Lyric :rose: :rose:
     
  8. alliemay

    alliemay Active Member

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    Thank you for starting a new thread.
     
  9. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused. The beginning of this thread is from 2014????
     
  10. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    LE has never stated either way. They are also keeping the cause of death (if known) secret.

    I'm not so sure blood would survive for long in the environment. It was a very hot summer, ideal for rapid decomposition. So an absence of blood just means they didn't find it, not that it wasn't ever there.
     
  11. threecrazykids

    threecrazykids Well-Known Member

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    Twilight Zone

    :ufo:
     
  12. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

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    The info about 7 Bridges being a dumping ground was never mentioned by anyone else, nor was it repeated by Lieberman on later occasions. That leads me to believe the info was incorrect. JMO.
     
  13. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I think it depends on the definition of dumping ground. Obviously the bodies were found there, so in that sense it was a dumping ground. The question is whether the phrase 'dumping ground' excludes any place where the assault and/or murder of the victim also took place.
     
  14. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    There is also that outside chance that they were actually able to get the insider info about the murder site not being at Seven Bridges, but LE will neither confirm nor deny it as they are trying to keep this info under wraps.
     
  15. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

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    Lieberman referred to it as a dump site, and stated LE was looking for the primary murder scene. To me, that implies the girls were killed elsewhere and dumped at 7 Bridges.

    IMO his comment is unsubstantiated and I do not feel this was just a dump site. JMO
     
  16. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I go back and forth. I think there is a 49.5% chance that Seven Bridges was the site of whatever assault took place and a 49.5% chance that whatever assault took place inside the vehicle they were abducted in. I reserve 1% for something totally out of left field, such as both girls being taken into a residence, assaulted and murdered, then the bodies removed to Seven Bridges but I consider it highly unlikely. Whoever had the girls would not want to risk escape by one or both while he was transferring them out of the vehicle or into another location.

    In a way, it doesn't matter. It is clear that the girls were transported in some sort of vehicle and would have left trace evidence that may or may not still exist. Finding that vehicle seems necessary to solving the crime.

    Ha, yet another list I hope LE is compiling: owners of vans and SUVs who reported them stolen in the 6 months following Elizabeth and Lyric's abduction. Cast the net wide, over the entire northeast corner of Iowa because there just aren't that many stolen vehicles in Iowa.
     
  17. threecrazykids

    threecrazykids Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you...however, I kind of assume that since LE hasn't mentioned it, they have NO idea what vehicle to be looking for (other than the boxy white suv reportedly sitting on Arbutus). I have a feeling this vehicle was likely NOT stolen, as that would have been a huge red flag and likely would have brought the perp to the surface rather quickly.

    I just don't get how that SUV hasn't been located...if this person IS a local (as in familiar with E'dale AND the Seven Bridges area) there can't be THAT many dang people that drive that exact type of vehicle. I just can't wrap my head around how this person's name hasn't surfaced. The people in that area HAVE to know who drives (or has access to) a vehicle fitting that description.

    Also, if multiple people saw the vehicle parked on Arbutus, then maybe this vehicle didn't pull into the Maiden Lane area at all. Maybe the vehicle never left Arbutus? However, that's a bigger risk - getting them from the back of the lake - up to Arbutus - and gone before anyone saw them leave (willingly or not).

    I just can't shake that IF the white suv is involved - that someone (or many someones) - know a person or people who own vehicles like this but aren't sharing that with LE. Whether they don't believe that whomever drives that vehicle would ever do such a thing, or they KNOW this person and may have a feeling they are involved but for whatever reason aren't going to notify LE.
     
  18. roseofsharon

    roseofsharon Active Member

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    RBBM ... "getting them from the back of the lake"

    I have often wondered if the girls were lured into a home or garage that backed on to the lake. From what I understood WC to say when she left with her grandson to look for the girls, was she didn't see anyone? I took that to mean she couldn't find the girls, but also didn't see another person. moo
     
  19. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I didn't mean that the vehicle used in the crime was a stolen vehicle at the time. I was thinking that one way to make a vehicle go 'poof!' after the crime is to drive it into a body of water and then report it stolen.

    Keep in mind that Evansdale is a small town that is part of a metro area that comprises 164,000 residents and covers part of three counties.

    The fact that, so far as anyone outside the investigation knows, no one connected to the families has been identified as having such a vehicle makes me lean towards the perp being someone who was either a complete stranger or someone whose connection to the families was so tenuous that no one thought of the person as a friend or acquaintance (for instance, a cashier at Fareway or a delivery driver for one of the stores in the little strip mall).

    Have you been following the Canadian Jian Ghomeshi case? In his case, it appears that there was red flag after red flag but no one in a position to see all the flags at once. So what most of his victims had to go on was either nothing or a vaguely worded "watch out, Jian is kind of a creep" warning. I would not be at all surprised if it turns out that one or more people phoned in a tip to the investigation about someone they perceived as creepy but did not have enough specific information for investigators to act on.
     
  20. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I took it to mean that she didn't see anyone as well.

    I think the problem with luring the girls into one of the residences around the lake is that the bikes were found so early. If someone lured the girls into a house, they got them out of the house again ASAP. If the perp did that, then they are bold beyond the telling of it because it would be multiplying risks like crazy to bring the girls into a residence.
     
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