Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by bessie, Jun 22, 2014.

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  1. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I agree with all of the above.

    In other cultures (mostly Central and South America), the cartels do go after family members but it's mostly kidnapping for ransom. Here in the US and particularly in Iowa, hardly ever.

    My own thinking is that the girls were at roughly the same level of risk. A successful sexual predator really can't afford the loss of control that happens with drugs.
     
  2. gofer

    gofer New Member

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    With all of the confusion that was going on when they first went missing, how well did LE scrutinize the alibis? Was J.C's alibi his girlfriend?

    Morrissey's court appearance Friday came hours after one of the girls' uncles, Jeremiah Cook of Waterloo, was hospitalized following an apparent overdose. Cook, 32, had been very close to the girls and was having trouble eating and sleeping since they disappeared, his mother, Wylma Cook, said.

    She said Jeremiah was recovering in a Waterloo hospital and was expected to be okay.

    "It all took a toll on him," Wylma Cook said. "My grandchildren were his prize possessions. He loved the children, and he's a very soft-hearted person."

    Thompson, the sheriff, said the overdose was not related to the girls' disappearance.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/lyric-cook-morrissey-elizabeth-collins_n_1710467.html
     
  3. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've always seriously wondered about that one.
     
  4. Bootsctr

    Bootsctr Well-Known Member

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    I am of the belief that the bikes were not planted at Meyers Lake and the girls actually made it to the lake. If the killer lives in Evansdale and the bikes had not been discovered would he/they have come back and taken the bikes?

    I also think they were taken straight away to 7-Bridges and the killer could have been back in time to search.

    I think it could have just as easily been Elizabeth's friendliness and biking to the lake and back that could have attracted someone's attention. She could have done it enough that it was routine to someone and she could have even told someone she was going to bring her cousin next time...

    By the way, does anyone still have a link to the kids riding those blinged out bikes in Waterloo? And, also the video of the rapper who was DM's friend/associate? TYIA.
     
  5. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    SBM

    I too believe the girls made it down to Meyer's Lake that day and were abducted from the spot their bikes were found. It's just a great spot for that because it was so hidden in plain sight, exactly the type of place predators look for.

    Yes, I think that if the perpetrator had had the time, he would have gone back to Meyer's Lake and probably thrown the bikes into the lake. Perfect hiding spot! I bet the perpetrator did help with the search because he probably went back to Meyer's Lake to see if he could make the bikes disappear. If someone had the presence of mind to note down the names of everyone who showed up at Meyer's Lake after the bikes were found, his name would be there. At that point, though, they were probably still in "lost kid" mode (no blame to them, lost children are hundreds of times more likely than stranger abducted children).

    The only place I differ with you is that I don't think that the perp selected either Lyric or Elizabeth. He selected a place to abduct a girl from and then waited for a girl who fit his mental profile to come along. When two came along, it was bonus time for him.

    I keep going back to the Groene case. Duncan didn't know the Groenes but he saw two children playing in front of the house that caught his attention, spent two days observing the house and occupants and made his move. Which meant that he was totally not even on the radar as a suspect.

    Incidentally, I recently learned that Steve Groene, their father, failed the polygraph. He passed on all the questions except "do you know where Dylan and Shasta are?" Fortunately, LE did not let that false indication derail their investigation too far. They did concentrate on Steve Groene but continued to follow up other leads. Me, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a loving father to have a strong emotional reaction just to the question of where his children are when he is completely innocent and terrified about their safety. The danger is when LE puts too much weight on the results of that particular piece of junk science.
     
  6. gofer

    gofer New Member

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    Please refresh my memory. If I remember it right didn't Dan or another family member take an ATV to search for the girls the night they went missing?
     
  7. Squeeze

    Squeeze blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda

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    Yes, Dan did, and many others.

    Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
     
  8. gofer

    gofer New Member

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    Thanks, Squeeze, just trying to connect the dots.
     
  9. alliemay

    alliemay Active Member

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    http://www.dailygate.com/news/article_3067a5c0-4876-58eb-bab9-1bde2504ea44.html

    I think it is overwhelming for the police to keep track of sex offenders. There are just to many that fit in the category of "failure to register at new address" or ones who give wrong addresses.

    Its also interesting what they come up with to lure children. The guy in this article approached the boy at a skate park.
     
  10. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    Part of the problem is that in Iowa, there's a whole range of offences that can get someone on the sex offender register who is highly unlikely to ever offend again.

    For instance, two of my brother's friends since childhood were arrested back in the 1980 or 1981 for public urination. They'd been out crawling the bars, it was after midnight and they were headed home. Home was on the other side of the downtown area from where they were and there was nowhere with a public restroom that didn't require paying a cover charge to get into. They'd already spent all their money on beer, so they ducked down an alley and started peeing there. My brother was lucky in that he finished first and was safely zipped before the police officer caught them. His two friends were charged with public urination plus lewd and lascivious acts on the rationale that a child could have seen then. Yeah, what child would be hiding in a dark alley after midnight on a Saturday night in Iowa City? The University of Iowa hadn't made the list of party schools at that time but it wasn't for lack of trying.

    Did they do the wrong thing? Yes. I don't like the smell of old urine any more than anyone else. But lewd and lascivious acts? Really?

    On the advice of their lawyer, they just pled guilty and paid the fine (less than $50 back then) and forgot about it. Then in the late 90s, one of them applied for hospital privileges somewhere and discovered to his horror that the conviction had landed him on the sex offender registry. He notified the other friend. It took quite a bit of $$$ lawyering to get their names removed.

    In another case, the guy was on the register for getting his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant in the 1980s before the age of consent moved from 21 to 14 (stepped consent). He was 18 at the time. Her parents were not happy and pushed the police to charge him with statutory rape. Like my brother's friends, he did the easiest thing, which was to plead guilty and pay a small fine. Along comes the sex offender register and suddenly he is barred from living with his wife and daughters. Yes, he ended up marrying the girlfriend he'd 'raped'. Since he was on the sex offender register for 'raping' a minor and two of his daughters were under 17, the state Department of Child and Family Services decreed he had to move out of the family home and cease any contact with his children. It took years to sort that one out and what finally got it done was when he went to the media.

    I also know several men who used to hang out at the only gay (tolerant) bar, which was subjected to frequent police raids. They'd be charged with lewd and lascivious, too. And now they are paying again for that old bigotry.

    There comes a point where there's really not much point to a register when the prerequisites are so loose that just about anyone can land on it. It can't be enforced and it can't be trusted. And that's not even getting into the whole "do registries actually even work" question.

    ARGH.
     
  11. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Massachusetts used to have that same sordid mess as well. Thankfully they seem to have cleaned most of it up recently.
     
  12. Figbarinc

    Figbarinc Member

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    Registries of any kind are a joke anyway. Not to be flippant but the National Do Not Call Registry. If a business is legit it will prevent them from calling. If the business is a boiler plate business or do the spoof calling(calling from one location and the electronics shows another number)it doesn't work.

    I think when any registry legislation comes out the public is clamoring for something to be done and this is a something tangible that looks good on paper. #1. Registries places a false hope that something is being done. #2. There is not enough financial resources available or people are willing to spend to make it a feasible option. # 3. There is a lack of manpower to make them feasible.

    I agree with @Squeeze. I have always thought they were killed and their bodies stored in a freezer. When it became colder than they could get rid of the bodies so they would be found by the hunters.

    Maybe this case will be resolved by good old police detective work but I think it will boil down to pure luck. There are so many cold cases similar to this one. Young girls kidnapped than murdered. I continue check on a periodical bases about Celina Cass. No suspects that LEO is willing to name and there is still no justice for her killing. But there is some solace to their loved ones in that she was found in a deceased form so they do not have to think about if she is somewhere being mistreated.

    We become frustrated when things are not wrapped up quickly and efficiently. I think this is just human nature. Even if they find the prep who did it and have the evidence to convict them it still takes what appears to us as along time for the court system to move and finish the cases.

    I live in Wake County and we have two cases were the Spouse was accused of killing the wife. Both cases their was a conviction for 1st degree murder and the husbands began to serve LWOP. But at some point the appeals court found problems with their cases. One has pleaded to second degree murder and he will be getting out of prison in about three years. The other case the county is looking at another trial for the spouse. I thought that the spouses were clearly responsible and there cases were closed.

    It gets to be taxing for everyone to just have an end to their cases
     
  13. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen it and given the description I don't think I'm going to go look.
     
  14. Figbarinc

    Figbarinc Member

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    The bottom line is that both sets of parents had questionable relationships with others. I have never been a parent but my sister is. She and my brother-in-law always led by example and their children are outstanding citizens. My sister and husband made sure that their children were a priority in their marriage. I am not so sure in Elizabeth or Lyric's life that was the case. This in no way excuses what happened to them. But I think parents need to think about these things before entering into some relationships. However we paint the behaviors of either parent is that two innocent children were stolen and then murderer by less than human lifeforms.
     
  15. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Predators are good at sensing that kind of vulnerability in kids and using it to gain their trust.
     
  16. Bootsctr

    Bootsctr Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response Grainne Dhu! I hadn't even thought about the killer disposing of the bikes in the lake, but that makes perfect sense now that you put it out there.

    I did not know that Steve Groene failed a lie detector test. I'm so glad those things are not admissible in court. I am following another case where a husband who had been found guilty of murdering his wife (Belinda Temple) has had a judge give him a re-trial because one of the suspects had failed a lie detector test (that's not the main reason the husband is getting a new trial, but I think it is one of the reasons). Another Scott Peterson type. Wife was just about to give birth to a little girl and murdered with a shot gun. Yep hubby had a girlfriend on the side and married her a year or less after his wife's murder. Sickening.

    The Groene case is an excellent example of a child predator at work. Duncan is the epitome of evil.

    Thanks again for your response!
     
  17. B4igo2it

    B4igo2it Well-Known Member

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  18. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting that interesting article, it seems like everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out the perp's identity.
    The article mentions that where the girl's bodies were found used to be a hangout, but not anymore.
    It made me wonder if the perp. attended a high school reunion just prior to the murders, and if so, might that trigger a perverted sense of nostalgia, to take girls there, and leave them powerless at the old hangout?
    speculation, imo.
     
  19. B4igo2it

    B4igo2it Well-Known Member

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    reunion is a good point. I was wondering if a college kid home for the summer may have done this? A former resident visiting family while on vacation.

    Mighty large reward and still no one has come forward. Loner? someone that keeps to themselves? private person? PREDATOR??? ... probably all of these.
     
  20. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    Is there any actual evidence that Drew and Heather Collins know that this guy is on the register? I know that I don't check the register every time I meet someone new. In fact, the only time I've checked the register is when it is connected to a case I'm learning about.

    I imagine Drew and Heather have met so many people during the search and the fundraising attempts for the memorial park that it would be almost impossible to check.

    Another possibility is that Heather Collins has made it clear that her faith is central to her life. She may believe that this guy has repented, been punished and now deserves a life... while she treats him cordially, I doubt he's on her list of babysitters.
     
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