IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #38

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Greater Than, May 13, 2017.

  1. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    What kind of evidence if any could LE have that enables them to dismiss the different offenders and other cases from being connected to this case? Maybe no evidence and waiting on a confession?
     
  2. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered how they ruled out MK
     
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  3. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I've never been real comfortable with that ruleout.
     
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  4. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
     
  5. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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    Ditto
     
  6. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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  7. Fukiyama

    Fukiyama Well-Known Member

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    MK being Klunder?
     
  8. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  9. Fukiyama

    Fukiyama Well-Known Member

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    Do we really need to beat around the bush with him? A. He's dead and B. He's a confirmed kidnapper and murderer.
     
  10. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

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    Is there anyone still active on this thread that is local to Evansdale?
     
  11. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    When all this happened, a separate thread under Serial Killers was set up for discussion of Klunder even though he was never charged in any other murder cases, only kidnapping. I don't know what happened to the threads for his kidnapping of the two girls in Dayton IA where one girl (D) escaped and the other Kathlynn Shepard was murdered.

    IA - IA - KLUNDER, Michael J: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK
     
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  12. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I'm a local. In fact, this is what brought me to Websleuths.
     
  13. Fukiyama

    Fukiyama Well-Known Member

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    I know, I advocated hard for its creation because posts about Klunder were clogging the then-current cousins thread.

    My first post on the first page of the Klunder thread has two points that I think merit serious discussion before I will really consider him as a possibility:

    1. Given the constraints of the timeline, how did the crime develop that day? Were the girls followed? How did MJK get to them on the bike trail given that insider knowledge is needed to know that the overgrown lane back there existed and was accessible? Did he know about it? Did he just discover it by plain luck? There has been a lot of speculation about MJK being familiar with where the bodies were discovered, but very little as far as I have seen about what if anything MJK knew about Evansdale.

    2. Given the constraints of the timeline and the nature of the location where the bikes were found and taking into account the fact that the girls took off on their bikes despite the fact their juice was unfinished on the counter and a departure with Grandma was imminent, what specific evidence points to MJK being the perp rather than someone else such as a person the girls were hustling to the vicinity of the lake to meet?​
     
  14. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    Given that MJK hung himself before he could have admitted anything and that LE never released any info on MJK other than they could not place him in Evansdale that day, we can only suppose what may have happened. We also have the problem with the length of time it took to find L&L's bodies at Seven Bridges Park. We don't know if there was any evidence recovered from that scene to know if there were similarities or not. We do know that MJK worked with hog parlors and Evansdale had a number of meat packing plants he could have visited. We do know that MJK stayed in a detention home? at Bremer? which was close to the park so there could be connections with a group of them visiting the park. When MJK kidnapped the girls in Dayton almost a year after L & L were taken, it was a logical conclusion to believe he would become a suspect because of the similarities between the two cases and his history. We don't have any concrete evidence to actually exclude him either.

    #1 - We do know that the girls were caught on a surveillance camera racing their bikes on a road and we do know that a man watering his lawn saw the girls riding their bikes on a road near the lake. They may not have traveled on the trail itself. Someone could have driven by and seen the girls and then went on ahead and watched to see which way they went. This could have happened a number of times until they arrived at the lake. It could have been someone in the truck parked on Arbutus. The lane to the county maintenance building at the back of the lake was dirt (I believe) but not overgrown. From there to where the girls' bikes were found is just a short path through some trees. That person could have seen the girls cut through that lane to get to the lake. That person could have driven onto the lane and watched the girls through the trees without being seen to make sure no one was around. A stranger or even MJK could have done this without any knowledge of Evansdale.

    #2 - These girls were only 8 and 10 years old. I don't believe they weren't going to meet anyone. They may have talked earlier about what fun it would be to bike ALL THE WAY to the lake. Apparently Lizzy had come close to it a few times and maybe even bragged about it because the man watering the lawn knew her from before while she was turning around to go back. They came in when Grandma called them and started drinking their juice. I don't know what transpired but Grandma may have said she was leaving at a certain time and if the girls wanted to go back out, they could but it would have to be fast. They only had so many minutes....so the girls didn't bother to finish their juice and took off for their new adventure. We don't know for sure what then happened or from where they were taken. My belief is someone approached them after they arrived at the lake with some ruse (making some money, seeing some puppies, parents hurt or sick, trespassing or in trouble throwing stones) and marched, grabbed or carried them to the get-away vehicle. There were no witnesses. We do know for sure that MJK had no problem approaching the two Dayton girls by a ruse of earning some money. There were no witnesses for this either but one girl lived to tell LE what happened.

    MOO
     
  15. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Hi thank you. Is the case ever discussed by anyone in the area still or is it no longer discussed because nearly seven years have passed? I have never forgotten Elizabeth and Lyric it is distressing to think the case is now a file in cold case and the perp will possibly never be held accountable.
     
  16. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. It's a wound that just won't heal. The anger is still there, but is somewhat slipping into profound sadness as the years tick by. It really rocked the whole community, and you can visibly see what a toll it's taken on community leaders when speaking about it. I definitely worry that it will never be resolved, but want so badly to be wrong.

    But no, never forgotten. We all still mourn every July 13th and many times in between.
     
  17. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for replying Ommmm I really appreciate it. I knew the community would not move on and forget what happened to Elizabeth and Lyric. I am so sorry the community is still suffering from what the evil monster did.
     
  18. Ommmm

    Ommmm Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I wish there was more information to go on.
     
  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Re: point number 1, I've always thought the girls were grabbed very near where the last surveillance video was taken, and the bikes were droppd by the lake later, probably as the killer was on his way back to the highway to leave town.
     
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  20. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Is there anything law enforcement can do about this case? Appeal for new information or something? Is it just going to sit in the cold case storage section forever more? It is just so frustrating that someone has got away with a double child murder.
     
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