Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 #38

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Greater Than, May 13, 2017.

  1. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,231
    Likes Received:
    66,327
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know for example there is a $1 million AUS Dollar reward in the William Tyrrell case and it doesn’t seem to have helped at all.
     


  2. Considering

    Considering Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tomorrow would have been Elizabeth’s 16th birthday.
     
  3. B4igo2it

    B4igo2it Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Motorcycle and car riders have been gathering on or near the anniversary of the girls’ disappearance to remember them and keep their murder case on people’s minds. They hold a silent auction and raffle to raise money for Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers and Angels Memorial Park at Meyers Lake.

    Riders remember Elizabeth and Lyric (PHOTOS)
     
  4. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,231
    Likes Received:
    66,327
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To the person who put the $50,000 up as a reward - Thank you so much.
     
  5. 24Roses

    24Roses Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    6,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Happy Sweet 16 in Heaven Elizabeth. It is sad to think of everything you are missing out on as a teenager. Lyric's birthday is also coming up in October; she would be 18 and graduating in 2020. I pray that someday this case will be solved and the families can have real closure. For the longest time I believed it was drug related because of Lyric's parents. However, I believe LE would of had that figured out by now. I still wonder about the man I mentioned on here about a year or so ago that traveled around Iowa for his job and was arrested in various counties for child abuse and kidnapping. He was in the Grundy county area which is the neighboring county to Evansdale. I don't remember his name or have a link right now. I'm not sure if E and L were ever mentioned in the article anyway. ETA-here is an article that mentions the girls along with his name. Wow! The one article shows a great map of where they think he has all attempted to kidnap. It is more than I knew about. A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state There is also another good link in this article about Elizabeth and Lyric.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  6. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,231
    Likes Received:
    66,327
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Drew Collins says, “we’re not going away. If anything, it’s we’re kind of gaining strength and we’re gonna get you.”

    These are words from a dad who is still trying to find the person or people who murdered his daughter. Today, Elizabeth would have turned 16.

    “We have to have a 16th birthday party for my daughter who is not here,” Collins says.

    UPDATE: Anonymous donation is why reward money doubled for Lyric and Elizabeth case

    My thoughts and prayers continue to be with Elizabeth and Lyric’s families everyday. I really hope the reward increase brings the one tip they need.
     
  7. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Kell1 - I really like your post and wanted to say that your comment, "The killer usually has the most familiarity with the body recovery site..." makes a lot of sense. I could see a killer coming across a victim in a variety of places that they may not be that familiar with, but they have a quick opportunity to remove the victim from that area. It makes sense that the body recovery site is more likely to be an area that the killer is more familiar/comfortable with since they probably spend more time here - for the crime itself and maybe even to return to after the crime.

    I was curious about your statement that "the murder scene is usually within 200 feet if where the bodies are recovered". I'm not questioning or doubting your comment, but I'm just curious as to what criteria are included in this statistic and how that could potentially skew the result. For example, does the result look only at murders where the body was removed from the "kill location" or did it look at all murders? Does it look only at murders where the killer was known to have moved the body or does it also look at cases where a body may have ended up a distance from the kill scene for "other" reasons - such as a body that was placed in water and carried by currents or a crime where the victim lived long enough to try to flee from the scene before they succumbed to their injuries?

    I'm just wondering if the "200 ft" could be falsely skewed on the lower side of the spectrum if it looks at all murders since many murders do not result in a body having been moved from the scene. I would be interested in seeing what the statistic might be when looking only at the distance between an abduction site and a recovery site where it is known that the killer placed the body.

    I would also be curious to see if the distance between the abduction site and the recovery site is affected by how old and/or experienced a killer is? I would think that a "newer" killer may be more likely to panic and therefore "dump" a body more quickly than a more experienced killer.

    I would love to hear what others think of this. I think that if there are studies about this, the information could be very helpful to LE in evaluating the distance between the two sites and looking at possible suspects and their familiarity/proximity to both abduction and recovery sites while keeping in mind a possible suspects "experience".

    Sorry if this is rambling, but sometimes I read someone else's post(s) and it makes me brainstorm.
     
    Kittybunny, Marilynilpa, otto and 7 others like this.
  8. Kell1

    Kell1 Verified law enforcement

    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    1,723
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Its really not as complicated as it sounds, it is riskier to move a deceased victim great distances, for fear of discovery, usually after the murder they want to get rid of the victim as quickly and quietly as possible (remember murder is usually secondary component to sexual assault which is overwhelmingly the driving factor in these crimes) therfore its a much smaller risk to move a living (probably compliant out of fear or con) to an area where they can not be seen committing the actual murder, in many cases, the victims are killed where they are found, in most the killer then hides the body and leaves quickly once they are cetian the victim is deceased. In a study done by the State of Washington Attorney Genrals office they found that in the majority of these cases, there was a spaital ralationship of between 1-199 feet between the actual murder scene and the spot where the victims body was recovered. This can also be due to animal activity and or post mortem movement by the offender himself (they often return)

    The distance between the abduction site and recovery site is often greater than 5 miles, regardless of criminal experience remember the mean age of the offender at the time of abduction is around 27 (27.8 ) yo and they usually have a pretty diverse, and in many cases, extensive criminal background by the time they work up to abducting a victim.

    The Key figures to keep in mind with these cases,
    1) In Most child abduction murdes the victim is deceased within 1- 3 hours
    2) In most Child abduction murders the victim isnt even been discovered/reported as missing for 2 hours after they have already been abducted ,

    therefore in many cases, the victim is already deceased, before it has been discovered they were even missing

    Thats why its so important to move fast in these cases,
     
  9. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thanks for your detailed and informative response. It is greatly appreciated!
     
  10. Kell1

    Kell1 Verified law enforcement

    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    1,723
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Very welcome if you have any questions feel free to ask
     
  11. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thanks!
     
  12. margarita25

    margarita25 Everything is JMO

    Messages:
    47,099
    Likes Received:
    176,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (Marking spot)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    dotr and watcher9 like this.
  13. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    925
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Trophy Points:
    93
    In the case of Elizabeth Cook and Lyric Collins from July 2012, it makes complete sense why they were kidnapped from one area and taken to another area. In Evansdale, Iowa, the Meyer's Lake park area, where Elizabeth Cook and Lyric Collins were kidnapped from, has enough people walking around that committing a crime there would be difficult. Obviously they were kidnapped from there, but that may have taken very little time. I think they were killed elsewhere. The Seven Bridges Wildlife area where the girls' bodies were found is completely remote. I could barely find the Seven Bridges area looking on a map. Seven Bridges Wildlife area also looks to be one way in and one way out.

    I know there is no proof that this crime is linked to the Delphi murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but the one commonality is that someone seems to be very familiar with remote areas that do not seem to be known by the general population. I read that even some residents of Delphi, IN knew very little about the Monon High Bridge before that crime happened. I wonder how many people in Evansdale, Iowa knew about the Seven Bridges Wildlife area before the bodies of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook were found there. There is youtube video of the Meyer's Lake park area done by a reporter 7 years ago who interviewed a psychic on the case. There is also video of the Seven Bridges Wildlife area done by this same reporter who went there with a family who knew some of the property owners in the area.

    Location by itself does not define an individual and our link to that particular place. If you have read about an interesting location in a book and went there to visit, does that mean you are local because you went there once and know about the area? It is how we come to know those locations, their comfort level in our life, and how we interact with locations on a daily basis that are better tools for defining a place and its sense of meaning in our lives.
     
  14. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    36,504
    Likes Received:
    69,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://www.psychlotron.org.uk/newResources/criminological/A2_AQB_crim_geographicalProfiling.pdf
    rbbm.
    "Crime mapping and routine activity theory Routine activity theory (RAT) is an approach to understanding offending that starts from the principlethat any crime requires three circumstances to coincide: (1) a motivated offender; (2) a suitable victim; and (3) the absence of a capable guardian. RAT does not address the question of whyoffenders commit crimes, it just assumes that in any area there are a certain number of people who are motivated to do so. RAT sees offending as little different from any of the other things a person might regularly do. This is significant, since most of a person’s activities are confined to a few fairly limited areas: where they live; where they work; where they socialize and so on. It might be expected, then, that a person’s offences will also be limited in the geographical area in which they occur."

    "Circle theory of environmental range Based on the finding that in many cases they examined, offenders lived fairly close to where they committed their offences,
    Canter and Larkin (1993) put forward the circle theory of environmental range. Basically, this proposes that the majority of the time, if a circle is drawn that encompasses all of a series of linked crimes, the offender will be based somewhere within the circle. Rossmo (2000) suggests that in general. criminals offend close to their homes (or other base) and the number of offences drops off with increasing distance from the base. There is a fair amount of support for this view. Godwin and Canter (1997) found that 85 per cent of the offenders they studied lived inside the circle encompassing their offences. Koscis and Irwin "
    (1997) confirmed this looking at serial rapes and arson attacks in Australia. "

    "However, Koscis and Irwin also found that the same finding did not appear to hold for burglary; only about half the time did burglars live in the circle defined by their offences. Snook et al (2005) examined the offence locations of 53 serial murderers in Germany. In 63% of cases the killer lived within 6 miles of wherethe bodies were found. Younger offenders travelled shorter distances and killers with higher IQs travelled further, suggesting that experience and intelligence influence killers’ attempts to disguise their crimes. This finding suggests that information about the dispersal of offences may indicate some general characteristics of the offender responsible. Mental maps People develop internal representations of the world they live in, especially the areas they make frequent use of. What is particularly interesting about these mental maps is that they do not accurately represent reality; they represent the perspective and experience of the individual. So, for example, a car driver might have a rather different mental map of Birmingham than a bus user or a pedestrian. Similarly, a Londoner’s mental map of their city centre may be very different depending on whether they walk or use the underground. Because a criminal’s offences are likely to be influenced by their mental map of an area, the distribution of their offences can be used to make inferences about them. For example, Canter used the locations of John Duffy’s attacks to predict that he would be someone with more knowledge of the railway network than a casual rail user. It turned out that Duffy was employed as a carpenter by British Rail."
     
  15. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    925
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think geographic profiling is useful as a tool to help narrow down a specific suspect and where they might live. In individual cases though I think it is highly guesswork. I try to look at other details besides location to make a guess. Since I think there is a small possibility the case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook could be connected to the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, the pattern to me is one of distance. The video example below of an unsolved cold case from 1987 explains the 4 different categories of offenders using geographical profiling.

    My opinion is that the offender in the case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook is a poacher.

     
  16. otto

    otto Verified Expert

    Messages:
    36,255
    Likes Received:
    63,292
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They were found several months later, 20 miles from where they were last seen riding their bikes around noon on July 13, and they were roughly 20 feet apart, both lying in a ditch or slough/trench where they were found by hunters by chance. Something about using shoes to identify the bodies suggests they were skeletons with clothing.

    I'm curious about the spatial relationship between the offender's home, the abduction site, and the dump site, and how that changes with more victims over time. Does the offender abduct closer to home or leave the body closer to home over time? If we knew that information, what does that say about where the offender lives?

    Does this suspect live closer to the abandoned summer camp, or closer to the party-hangout from the 1970s where the bikes were found?

    There is a good study about proximity from home to body - will look for it. Abduction site can sometimes remain a mystery. With Elizabeth and Lyric we know where their bikes were found and we know that Elizabeth's purse was tossed over the fence, landing near the shore. That was the abduction site for the girls, but it seems that they were forced to walk along the shore of the leach infested lake to get to a vehicle - they couldn't have walked the path because others were on the bike path at the time that they were abducted.
     
  17. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    795
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow, it’s great to come back after another absence and find some really interesting posts!

    This has probably been discussed in prior posts which I haven’t had a chance to read:

    He [Drew] said he has new hope after hearing online DNA profile websites have recently helped police catch murderers years later.

    “I am hoping technology that is on the edge of coming out or something that is recent or new will bring this case to a close,” Collins said.

    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiENUJRw52nxW8UAXJtLA8tm4qGAgEKg8IACoHCAow69j-ATDqjRcwjb-YBg?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

    We have often discussed whether any useful DNA was found on the girls or at the crime scene. My interpretation of Drew’s statement is that some DNA was found.

    Any comments?
     
  18. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    795
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here is part of a 2014 article:

    “The offender blends in with and may be part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities. It is unlikely that the offender is a transient or someone who was merely traveling or ‘passing through’ the area,” according to the site. The suspect likely used “quiet coercion” to gain the girls’ compliance into leaving Meyers Lake, using a ruse or threats of violence.

    Investigators Release Suspect Profile in Murder of Evansdale Cousins

    I wonder if LE has changed their beliefs in light of no arrest(s) being made?

    I still think the killer is local, and was probably known by at least one of the girls. JMO.

    Has anyone’s opinion changed over the years regarding the perp(s)?
     
  19. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    795
    Trophy Points:
    113
    upload_2019-10-14_20-57-19.png

    upload_2019-10-14_20-58-5.png

    When I look at these two little girls, I get so ANGRY that someone out there probably knows who killed them but hasn’t yet come forward! :mad::(
     
    Luckyzmom, neverletgo, misgrn and 9 others like this.
  20. SouthernMom

    SouthernMom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    2,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it would be interesting to know what evidence could have been recovered from the crime scene after 5 months.
    What condition would that evidence be in after so much time and exposure to the elements? It would be wonderful if technology improves enough to link that evidence to a possible suspect.
    Not just for these sweet girls but for many other victims.
     
    Luckyzmom, Falling Down, dotr and 5 others like this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice