IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, found deceased, Evansdale, 13 Jul 2012 #38

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Yemelyan

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so we dont know if they were kept alive during the six months and killed before they were found ?
and we dont know if they were violated ?
is it also possible that they dont know how they died because of the state of bodies

It's possible that authorities weren't able to determine how they died due to the condition of the bodies, but I no longer think that is the case because of one of the recent (this year) interviews with investigators where one of them said that he, as a parent himself, would want to know how they died, so it kills him to keep that a secret from the families, but it would do more harm to the case to let that info out.

This interview is linked upthread.
 

FaLovesPa

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With a named suspect under arrest now in the Delphi murders, will there be any connection to our girls here? From what I have read, this guy has lived in Delphi since 2006. I guess only time will tell.

Long awaited news for the families and Delphi community.
 

Emerald1328

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With a named suspect under arrest now in the Delphi murders, will there be any connection to our girls here? From what I have read, this guy has lived in Delphi since 2006. I guess only time will tell.

Long awaited news for the families and Delphi community.
I would be very shocked if he was the one who hurt our girls. On the surface the crimes seem similar but I’ve never thought the same man was responsible. I would be elated if it was the same guy though! It would mean there aren’t two monsters out there.
 

Kell1

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More likely they were in a complete state of decomposition at the time, left to elements bodies decompose rapidly, they were found 6 months later.

If there were wounds to the underlying bones, you could possibly determine whether they were stabbed shot or beaten if something came in contact with bone, but sometimes it doesn't.

For ex cutting the throat

However , The most common method used in abduction murders of children is strangulation.
 

watcher9

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More likely they were in a complete state of decomposition at the time, left to elements bodies decompose rapidly, they were found 6 months later.

If there were wounds to the underlying bones, you could possibly determine whether they were stabbed shot or beaten if something came in contact with bone, but sometimes it doesn't.

For ex cutting the throat

However , The most common method used in abduction murders of children is strangulation.
Would touch DNA still be viable on any clothing after 6 months?
 

FromGermany1

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We have to learn of the white boxing car, the perp (possibly) used for the abduction, and if a Walmart manager in general has perhaps access to a company car, which is similar.
 

dotr

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Would touch DNA still be viable on any clothing after 6 months?
Not a direct answer, there are a number of variables, imo speculation.
''According to research Valentine published with other researchers recently in the Journal of Forensic Nursing, men between the ages of 18 and 45 are considered "high shedders" of DNA through touch. Those with dry, sweaty or unclean hands also shed a higher amount of skin cells. Touch DNA yields better results when collected from porous or rough surfaces like wood or fabric, according to the research.

Before 2011, touch DNA was mainly an experimental tool used in laboratory settings — until a Utah case.

A woman was "very violently" groped and attacked by someone who had already assaulted several other women at the University of Utah the same day. Law enforcement needed to identify the perpetrator to stop the assaults — but they lacked any apparent evidence, Valentine recalled.

"And the only thing that could be collected was where the women had been touched, there weren't any bodily fluids," she said.

Without knowing whether anything would come of it, a forensic nurse collected evidentiary swabs from spots where the victim had been touched by the groper, including on her clothing.

"This was not standard practice at all, this was merely: 'This is all we've got, so can we develop any kind of meaningful information?'" Valentine said.

When the evidence got sent to the state crime lab, the forensic nurse told those at the lab: "You're going to think I'm nuts, but this is what I had," according to Valentine
It worked.''


'' All in all, the results demonstrate that DNA could still be recovered from clothes exposed to water for more than 1 week.''


 

Kell1

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Would touch DNA still be viable on any clothing after 6 months?
In an perfect environment, maybe, but in this case, im going to say no.

Plus were only just beginning to unravel touch DNA, but its SO widespread its extremely difficult to use

I mean if someone sneezes anywhere in the vicinity you can get touch DNA.

Thats (and a lot of other things) happened with the Ramsey crime, scene.
 
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Yemelyan

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Would touch DNA still be viable on any clothing after 6 months?

Don't forget that investigators also had items that the perpetrator likely touched from the scene of the abduction (Meyer's Lake) - these items were found within hours of the disappearance, not months. The bikes had been staged in a certain location on the trail and one of the victims' toy purse had been thrown into tall grasses. Perhaps DNA or fingerprints were recovered from these items?
 

Kell1

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Ill say again, though there were more than victim, 1 which itself isnt common, this fits the more stereotypical abduction homicide,

There could be several reasons to abduct and kill BOTH girls , however i feel there were 2 victims because abducting one left a witness, which indicates, a slight possibility they may have known their killer and would be able to describe him, even if in passing , as these types tend to live or work in the area of the abduction.

ALl other factors in this case, i feel would be consistent with the others ive posted before
 

Considering

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Don't forget that investigators also had items that the perpetrator likely touched from the scene of the abduction (Meyer's Lake) - these items were found within hours of the disappearance, not months. The bikes had been staged in a certain location on the trail and one of the victims' toy purse had been thrown into tall grasses. Perhaps DNA or fingerprints were recovered from these items?
BBM

I don't believe LE has ever stated that the girls' bikes were staged. People have speculated that the scene may have been staged, but LE has not said it was.

JMO
 

Yemelyan

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BBM

I don't believe LE has ever stated that the girls' bikes were staged. People have speculated that the scene may have been staged, but LE has not said it was.

JMO
Sorry...I didn't mean staged in a forensic sense, I just meant they were left in such a way that they may have been touched by someone either than the girls. I think it's almost certain that the purse was handled by the person who abducted them and in my opinion it's likely that the bikes were. I should have used a less ambiguous way of saying it though....closer to my thought process was "the way the bikes were placed there" instead of "staged."
 

Kell1

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Ill say this again

SOMEONE either knows, or strongly suspects someone they know of these 2 girls murders, they just aren't talking (yet), since a reward is not enticing someone to talk, i feel its most likely a family member of the offender who knows who this is .

Also He's most likely been back to where they were their bodies were recovered, probably several times, almost certainly with a few days after he killed them, the overwhelming majority of them do just that.

Anyone who saw anyone or anything in the vicinity where the girls bodies were found at ANY Time after they were abducted, until the day they were found should come forward even if it seems trivial.
 

Emerald1328

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Ill say this again

SOMEONE either knows, or strongly suspects someone they know of these 2 girls murders, they just aren't talking (yet), since a reward is not enticing someone to talk, i feel its most likely a family member of the offender who knows who this is .

Also He's most likely been back to where they were their bodies were recovered, probably several times, almost certainly with a few days after he killed them, the overwhelming majority of them do just that.

Anyone who saw anyone or anything in the vicinity where the girls bodies were found at ANY Time after they were abducted, until the day they were found should come forward even if it seems trivial.
I’m concerned that people DID come forward right away with useful information and it was mishandled by the authorities. A white SUV was seen in the vicinity of the lake around the time of the abduction. 2 people came forward and reported it right away and one later on. LE didn’t release this information to the public to ask for tips until 11 months after the girls disappeared.

‘“We realized that we have three different people — two early-on and one just a couple months ago — that came forward with information that identified a white SUV-type vehicle,” Smock said. Each witness reported seeing an older, box-style SUV at three different locations near Meyer’s Lake on the day the girls went missing.’

 

NeverPersonal

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For Elizabeth's dad, Drew Collins, the likelihood his daughter's death is linked to the Delphi case is not totally out of the realm of possibility, though he believes there's only a "very small chance" it could be.

However, what has given him a renewed cause for optimism in his quest to get justice for his daughter was a bombshell announcement made by police in Indiana last week that an arrest had been made in connection with Abby and Libby's deaths.
We're going to find you, we're going to find out who helped you hide, and we're not going to stop until we do.
Drew Collins, Elizabeth's Dad, Speaking To Her Killer
Investigators are still exploring whether others may have been involved [in Delphi murders].

Drew said the potential breakthrough has "definitely" given him confidence that the culprit behind the murders of Elizabeth and Lyric will one day be unmasked.

"That guy [Richard Allen] wasn't even on anybody's radar, which just shows you these things can take time," said Drew, 51.

"We have a lot of good detectives working on this case and a lot of other dedicated people, and they aren't going to quit until we find who did this."

RENEWED CONFIDENCE​

"It could take 10 years, it could take 20 years, it could take longer ... but we're going to find who did this, it's just a matter of when. We're going to expose that person, their whole family is going to know what they did, and everyone will know what they did to those two beautiful little girls."
 

catgirlx

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Ok has anyone seen this yet? I was checking that area on Google maps from August 2012. There is a White SUV, I would consider 'boxy,' driving on the corner where Arbutus meets Lake Ave. The bike trail is just a few houses down from here...

White SUV lake ave.png
 

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