IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[HeartofTexas]

Thank you, Mr. Thomas, for your input. You come across as level-headed and reasonable in your approach.

 

[Roy Harrold]

William - in post #146 of the "boys bound & gaged" thread you said " I believe this to be possibly one big hoax" and then posed the question " Who would add "the brand" and why?"

Have you changed your opinion, and if so, what info caused you to change it? Perhaps I've missed something you could bring to my attention.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Noreen Gosch and her associates have a prior history of incorrectly identifying people as being her son Johnny:

"Noreen confirms, “Ted [Gunderson, a retired FBI agent who has investigated the Gosch disappearance] sent me a videotape of his interview with his source and he {source} said Gannon is Gosch, and he said it without hesitation and without blinking an eye, and he said he’s known it for months.” Noreen “believes the man is credible.” Gunderson makes it clear that Bonacci is not his informant, but is quick to add that Bonacci “informed him a while back that Gosch had changed his appearance.”
In fact, there’s even corroboration from [Attorney] John DeCamp, who weighs in with, “[Paul] Bonacci told me the same thing {that Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch}.” And this bombshell from Noreen: “…the birthmark on Johnny’s chest is very similar to a mark seen on Gannon’s chest in at least one photo. Gannon has a spot on his right cheek in the same place as Johnny."

and also:

http://www.rense.com/general63/100.htm

But Jeff Gannon is definitely not Johnny Gosch. Is it not possible that Noreen Gosch is mistaken, again, in this case?

Meanwhile:
"Nelson Zalva, who is now working for the Hillsborough County state attorney's office, said he investigated the photos while he worked at the Hillsborough County sheriff's office in 1978 or 1979.

"I remember this case," he said. "I identified the kids portrayed in the photos. It was definitely investigated by me several years prior to the disappearance of Johnny Gosch."

I've seen no evidence whatsoever that Zalva has a history of inaccurate recollection, nor that he is a dis-information agent for an international child sex slave ring...

 

[loganone]

Using photoshop, you can blow up the color photo, and it appears that there is something on his arm. I played with both photos for a while last night, playing with gamma, and overlaying them. If you look at the photos on a larger scale, you can see the mark on the right side of Johnnys head. I believe without a doubt, brand or no brand, its him. ALSO, if you have photoshop, blow his face up to about 1000 pixels wide. You can see, without question, that he has been beaten severly. The right eye is actually cut, and it is bruised below that.

This is my first post on WS, but I have been reading the forums for over a year now.
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I concur with your findings on the photos. I have blown up the color photo and see the same thing, that there is a mark on the arm. Looking at the blown up photo, the color photo seems to have been altered with the blur tool in photoshop, but that is just my opinion.
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There has been question about the second photo and what is on the shirt the child is wearing in the center. If you inverse the colors it seems clearer, to me it looks like a bike. I would post the inversed picture, but I am currently at work. J
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[William R Thomas]

Noreen will tell you flat out that she doesn't know what to make of the Gannon speculation. I know. I have asked he this very question in the last 72 hours. Gannon refuses to take a DNA test, even though he stated he would. he won't discuss this with anyone, and even though he is a self-serving political pundit, he has posted NOTHING about it on his site, which is unusal for someone who is self serving and egotistical as he is.

Do I think Gannon is JG? I do not. Noreen says flatly,


ME Ive heard all this BS about Jeff Gannon. What is your take on that. I find it implausible that people can think its johnny.
11:05 PM


NOREEN it is hard to say... i asked him to take a dna test but he refused... so I dropped it.

ME I guess I just dont see the connection.

NOREEN me either that is why I just dropped it


ME why would soemone so underground, who is in hiding, suddenly come out in a public position so prominently>>>
it just doesnt make any sense to me


NOREEN hard to make the jump isn't it"

These are her EXACT QUOTED WORDS. Doesn't sound like she's doing anything but checking it out.

Noreen isn't really the nut that a lot of people are intent on making out to be.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I saw earlier the theory that the color photo is the original and the back and white photo is the "later" version since it is easier to convert a color to a b&w compared to adding color to a b&w. This is true, but both photos could be later variations of a earlier color photo that does have the brand on it - one b&w with the brand still on it and a color version with the brand removed or blurred.

 

[Roy Harrold]

"Noreen isn't really the nut that a lot of people are intent on making out to be."

I'm certain that is true. There's no doubt that her crusade to have the "72 hour waiting period" for investigation of missing youth scapped, was heroic and the whole nation owes her a debt of thanks for pursuing that so doggedly.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Good point, Dr Doogie.

 

[William R Thomas]

I saw earlier the theory that the color photo is the original and the back and white photo is the "later" version since it is easier to convert a color to a b&w compared to adding color to a b&w. This is true, but both photos could be later variations of a earlier color photo that does have the brand on it - one b&w with the brand still on it and a color version with the brand removed or blurred.

DOOOOOOGIE! I love it when someone comes up with a simple, poignant explanation that I had yet to think of. And if you look at the color photo we have, it DOES look as though it were blurred. I thought that last night, but for the life of me couldn't think of why that would have happened. BUT, your timeline theory actually makes sense. EEgads MAN, I think your onto something!!

 

[Roy Harrold]

Although what Dr Doogie says it true, beware of an infinite regress. All the photos we know of, and the hypothetical color photo with the brand, COULD be copies of some other original - perhaps in which the boy's hair is different color, there is no brand and there are objects on the bed...

We only have proof of two versions of the photo, and based on the ones we have, the B&W appears to have been doctored.

As for Noreen Gosch's previous non-statements about Gannon being her son - endorsing the "sources" as credible, when they are stating Gannon is 100% surely her son, is an endorsement of Gannon being her son. Without actually stating that herself.
Which is...cagey, certainly, and indicates she is definitely not a nut.

 

[Eisbar]

With regard to the two photos.......

I believe them to be real and here is why: The clothing, hairstyle and room decor are consistant with the tiem frame of Johnny's disappearence. I grew up in the 80's and this is what the boys would wear. The hair is consistant too because most boys were not into the long hair of the 70's but not yet the super short hairstyles of the late 80's to 90s'.

Now for identification of the two other boys......

How's these names for possiblities....

Jon Dabkowski
Brian Bleyl
Gabriel Minarcin
Robert Heintz
Anthony Franko
Richard Uden


But most especailly.....Randy Parscale OR Kevin Collins.

Take a look and tell me what u think.

 

[Eisbar]

ALSO .....to whom ever said that this was a photo on a bondage site......please forwad a link for everyone to view it

 

[William R Thomas]

With regard to the two photos.......

I believe them to be real and here is why: The clothing, hairstyle and room decor are consistant with the tiem frame of Johnny's disappearence. I grew up in the 80's and this is what the boys would wear. The hair is consistant too because most boys were not into the long hair of the 70's but not yet the super short hairstyles of the late 80's to 90s'.

Now for identification of the two other boys......

How's these names for possiblities....

Jon Dabkowski
Brian Bleyl
Gabriel Minarcin
Robert Heintz
Anthony Franko
Richard Uden


But most especailly.....Randy Parscale OR Kevin Collins.

Take a look and tell me what u think.

Ive thought that the first boy in the group photo was kevin for awhile.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I think Jim Gannon/Jim Guckert, or whatever his name, is a disgusting specimen of a human being, and I hate to see his name tied in with Johnny Gosch because it reduces the credibility of anything that might have happened to Johnny Gosch. OTOH, I think all of the political pundits love to see Gannon's name tied in with Gosch because it makes all of the pedophile ring talk seem like the most ridiculous conspiracy story to come down the pike in the last hundred years. And I find that to be a shame.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I think Jim Gannon/Jim Guckert, or whatever his name, is a disgusting specimen of a human being, and I hate to see his name tied in with Johnny Gosch because it reduces the credibility of anything that might have happened to Johnny Gosch

Heart of Texas - I can't express strongly enough, how deeply I agree with that!
The whole Gosch=Gannon thing, which went on for so long all over the net, made me & some friends here absolutely furious - because it seemed people were revelling in making a joke and a mockery out of something so serious,
i.e. the tragedy of missing children.

No offense meant to anyone here who participated in such discussions, I'm sure any discussions here were more respectful, but some of what we read online elsewhere just infuriated us.

 

[Eisbar]

With regard to the conspiracy and the whole Bohemian cult thing...I dont beleive a word of it. Smells like BS to me. Do people honestly think that something like that or the Johnny thing have not been uncovered by now by the press?

PLEASE...... Don't you think that those out to get the Bush Admin. whould try to uncover anything that would tie him to a pedo ring? And if so....why has NONE of the major new agencies picked up on it?

B/C it's BS. I got to tell you all this does is take away from the real culprits and they are laughing at us all the way. We're making it easier for them to get away with what they are doing. STAY Focused on the task at hand....if you cant then go live at area 51

Thats just my opinion and I hope I did not offend anyone

 

[Floh]

Thats just my opinion and I hope I did not offend anyone

And you're entitled to your opinion, Eisbar.

we all are.

it's my opinion you have been bamboozled if you regard this theory as 'BS' (so, er, eloquently put) and suggest anyone who does goes to live in area 51.

"why has NONE of the major new agencies picked up on it?"

think about it.

 

[kazzbar]

Hi Floh, how ya going Possum. I think that too many kids seem to go missing .Of course, there are orgaanised rings.Not sure if I buy the whole Franklin cover up or the Bohemian Grove connection but I would definetly not rule any thing out.Media moguls are usually in bed with governments so a cover up is not impossible.I always try to keep my mind open.

 

[Eisbar]

I'd Like to believe it but when I do reasearch on any of these claimes I am directed to web sites that are propaganda not fact. Anyone can create a website and say what they want to on it. I choose to not beleive in things that have no real factual base.

As far as the press not picking up on the pedo white house ring/gannon/Bohemian/gosch.....sorry but I dont get your point. Most of them would love to get a juicy story on the White House and most especially BUSH. I can understand that FOX may not pick it up but CNN or The New York Times? Seems like a no brainer to me. Unless some one can point me to a timeline with true accurate FACTS regarding this I will choose to err on the side of what we know for sure. That Johnny Gosch was abducted from his town and that pictures have surfaced recently depicting him in clothing from that era with 2 other young men.

The rest is speculation....I don't even put alot of weight into the visit that Norenn got by Johnny. So thats where I stand....I guess you could say "SHOW ME" since thats wher I'm from.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Media moguls are usually in bed with governments so a cover up is not impossible.I always try to keep my mind open.

That is a very important statement, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.