IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[rbeck]

I will be glad to answer your questions WARNING :you all might think im crazy like Noreen but this is what i strongly believe primarily because of witness testimony i have heard

Answers to your questions
1.Why Johnny Gosch, a kid from West Des Moines, Iowa? He wasn't special in any way (other than to his mother, I'm sure). He was just a regular kid. Why did he get picked?

Johnnys Father had taken his son to Offutt AFB in Nebraska one saturday months before the kidnapping for an unspecified reason .when Johhny returned home Noreen said he couldnt remember anything about it and he acted strange. Offut AFB has long been reported to be a us government run mind control experimentation center for many years. I know I know ,it sounds crazy but many other people have reported this as well .I think for some reason or another Johnnys father volunteered his son for mind control experimentation they liked him why i dont know? also witnesses said thatjohnny was being followed and photographed before he was kidnapped. a side note. another paper boy from the same area of Iowa was kidnapped a year later in 1983 named Eugene Martin why did he get picked as well?

2.If Johnny really did survive and escape, where is he now? He and I are the same age; why would an almost 40-year-old man have to fear for his life over events that happened when he was a kid? No one would believe his story, anyway.

Johnny really did escape sometime in the late 80s when he was a teenager. The last I heard from Noreen he was living on an Indian reservation and working as a day laborer to earn money its a safe place to hide out and he does not have to pay taxes so he cant be tracked down. He is scared for his life because some of the people involved with these pedophiles that kidnapped him are still in power ie. the Bush family and remember Larry King is out of prison since 2001 and is in Fairfax, Virginia up to his old tricks. I personally think Johnny should come forward to the press and expose these criminals he should hire some body guards if he fears for his life.

3. The pictures Noreen says are Johnny: How does she know? There is a resemblance, but as others have pointed out, there are resemblances to other kids, too. Where's the proof? Where's the mark on his face, or the strawberry mark on his shoulder?

The way i look at it of anybody on the planet that would know if a photo of Johnny Gosch is really him or not should be his own mother the woman that raised him for 12 years. Ive never met the boy, never knew him i have only seen a few pictures on the internet so I can not comment on the photos authenticity. I cant comment on the bound and gagged photos other than I have seen them before years ago probably back in 1998-1999 on a fetish website called www.jacobstales.com the website is shut down now but all of the photos on the website including those of Johnny Gosch were submitted by members of the site.

4.Does anyone know if the police ever looked at Johnny's father as a suspect? Isn't that nearly always where they look first -- the parents? I'd love to know if John Gosch, Sr. was ever definitively cleared by law enforcement.

Rusty Nelson has said that the police chiefs Robert Wadman and Orvell Cooney both in west des moines and Nebraska were on Larry Kings payroll .Even if legit detectives tried to suspect Johnnys father im pretty sure that their police cheifs made sure that John Gosh Sr. was "definitively cleared" of any crimes by way of a monetary payoff. Also it has been revealed that John Gosch Sr. withdrew something like $ 5000 from his account days before the kidnapping an interesting coincidence.

thats what I think replies are welcomed

 

[rbeck]

I don't think anyone is "safe" from maggots who molests kids, but I am beginning to think something is a little off as far as a paedo ring.

Paedophiles like smaller, weaker, vulnerable, children, and as far as age goes, Johnny was just a child. BUT, according to his stats he was 5'7" and 140 pounds at the time of his disappearance. That is the size of many grown men. Since he was so big, you would think he would be a turn off for men who like "little boys".

If he was already that big when he disappeared, he wouldn't be a useful child sex slave for very long, (if at all). Why take the all the risk abducting a boy for a child sex ring if he (at the rate he was growing) would quickly grow larger than the maggots who he was to be abused by? I don't think it would be very cost efficient...It's like, how many people buy overly ripe bananas unless they plan to use them all up that day? If you want to keep them around for awhile, you buy them green, not black.

Well thats the thing Paul Bonacci was asked during one of his interviews. Paul was asked "what happens to these kids when they get older and outlive their use?" He said most of them are done away with (killed, suicided) or they become perpetrators or homeless strung out on drugs. I dont think size is an issue with some of these perverts they are little men themselves look at pictures of Alan Baer and Peter Citron on this link http://www.franklincase.org/keyplayers.htm Victim Troy Boner looks to be a big guy hes over 6 foot .Larry King is a big guy well over 300 lbs and 6 foot any kid would be little compared to him.you are right they do like small children.This pedophile group had access to all kinds of under age children big or small, black ,white, boys or girls Paul has said that he was first brought into this group at the age of 7 .Rusty Nelson has said that Larry King had a group he called his "golden boys" that were all under the age of 10 and he also said that they preferred boys at the age of 12-13 right when they are going through puberty. As far as being "cost efficient" Larry King was renting a house on embassy row in Washington DC for $40,000 a month !! He was the manger of a crooked credit union making investors buy false cds and then putting the money in his own private accounts. Rusty Nelson said that it was not uncommon for Larry to put $100,000 on his American Express card and pay it off every month. I dont think money is a problem with these guys.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Well of course she sounds like she is a sane stable person. Can you give me a specific example of why you have such a negative opinion of Noreen?and why is she on trial in the first place being judged by people like yourself? she is not the victim her son Johnny is.I think shes done one hell of a job over the years trying to expose what happened to him.you are right someone he knew very well was involved I strongly believe that his father sold him to these pedophiles .and you think rich pedophiles didnt kidnap him?? well what proof do you have that someone "didnt kidnap him"?when the evidence supports the fact that he was kidnapped by Larry King's disgusting group of perverts.Do you totally dismiss the sworn testimony of Paul Bonacci,Alisha Owens,Troy Boner,Rusty Nelson and others all saying that they have seen and been around Johnny during the 80s while he was used "basically as a sex slave" to quote Rusty.Paul was in the car that snatched Johhny the day he was kidnapped he revealed detailed info about Johnny to Noreen years later that no one knew besides his mom.Paul was up to his eyeballs with these rich pedophiles since the 70s. You seem to be looking for a cop out,a cut and dry easy answer to this case.You seem to think that children young boys and girls are not used as prostitues for the rich and wealthy to compromise them. Larry King was pimping children for years to politicians and high government officials. Hell I know a man personally who worked overseas for the state department in Kuwait ,Saudi, Bahrain He said he gets offered sex of all kinds and descriptions(including kids) he turned them down all the time and eventually they quit offering he said its no big deal part of the job. Folks this stuff is very real and no matter how his mother may seem i think Johnny was used as a sex slave to these people

You must have missed my previous posts about me saying that my good friend was one of the P.I.'s that worked on this case. I do know that pedophiles exist and yes they do kidnap kids every day. Using children for sex slaves has been going on for many years overseas that's nothing new. I am not looking for a cop out at all This case should have been solved long ago but Noreen wouldn't allow a few people be investigated because of religious reasons. I live a mile from Offutt Air Force Base and have been there many times I also know people who have worked there for years. I think it's hilarious that anybody would think they are running mind control experimentations there. I also wouldn't believe anything Alisha Owens said She has been proved a liar and also has mental issues. IMO I don't know where you live rbeck but I have lived around the area all my life so I have heard about this story many many times over the years.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

You must have missed my previous posts about me saying that my good friend was one of the P.I.'s that worked on this case. I do know that pedophiles exist and yes they do kidnap kids every day. Using children for sex slaves has been going on for many years overseas that's nothing new. I am not looking for a cop out at all This case should have been solved long ago but Noreen wouldn't allow a few people be investigated because of religious reasons. I live a mile from Offutt Air Force Base and have been there many times I also know people who have worked there for years. I think it's hilarious that anybody would think they are running mind control experimentations there. I also wouldn't believe anything Alisha Owens said She has been proved a liar and also has mental issues. IMO I don't know where you live rbeck but I have lived around the area all my life so I have heard about this story many many times over the years.

So your good friend the PI told you Noreen would not let him investigate a few people because of religious reasons? These few people where the key for him to solve the case? Who where they? (You don't have to give names, but perhaps their relationship and why their statements where so vital to him.)

What does religion have to do with it? I'm really interested in knowing.

 

[Teresa Larson]

So your good friend the PI told you Noreen would not let him investigate a few people because of religious reasons? These few people where the key for him to solve the case? Who where they? (You don't have to give names, but perhaps their relationship and why their statements where so vital to him.)

What does religion have to do with it? I'm really interested in knowing.

Johnny went to church camp 2 weeks prior to him being kidnapped. They wanted to investigate some people that were there however Noreen wouldn't allow it because she didn't think they (religious people) would have kidnapped Johnny. I guess it was just easier for her to think that a horrible pedophile got him. I was told that both parents were very strange people. At one time even one of the other P.I's was a suspect. I was also told that they discovered some information about a city official being gay and possibly a pedophile himself. I really think that the Franklin Credit Union Case etc didn't have anything to do with Johnny's diappearance. I have said it before and I will say it again Johnny knew who kidnapped him and it was somebody that lived right in Des Moines. IMO

 

[rbeck]

Teresa you said "You must have missed my previous posts about me saying that my good friend was one of the P.I.'s that worked on this case.

I didnt "miss your post" I infact asked you who your PI friend was and you refused to say who they are .why i dont know? If they are a P I anyone could look them up in the local yellow pages why so secretive about him or her?

you said "I do know that pedophiles exist and yes they do kidnap kids every day. Using children for sex slaves has been going on for many years overseas that's nothing new"

overseas and right here in the USA especially in your home state

you said "This case should have been solved long ago but Noreen wouldn't allow a few people be investigated because of religious reasons"

So let me get this straight you actually think that because Noreen didnt believe people at a church camp kidnapped her son the case was not solved? Well if anyone put up obsticles in the solving of this case it is the corrupt police chief Orvell Cooney who told local volunteers looking for Johnny to call off their search the kid was nothing but a damm runaway, he didnt put Johnnys name is the national missing childrens database, he refused to ask for help from the FBI and made up a phoney composite sketch of a suspect and basically did nothing.

you said "I live a mile from Offutt Air Force Base and have been there many times I also know people who have worked there for years. I think it's hilarious that anybody would think they are running mind control experimentations there.

Were you stationed there in the Air Force or have you been to an air show or two and wandered around the SAC museum a few times? Its a big place and has underground bunkers where anything can go on you would need a heck of alot of high level clearance to get to some parts of Offutt. President W Bush hid in one of the underground command control centers there during 9/11. Heck the base used to be SAC headquarters with nuclear weapons if you know someone that worked there, so what? civilians and unauthorized personell cant go to every part of the base.

you said "I think it's hilarious that anybody would think they are running mind control experimentations there.

Some people dont believe the government uses people for experimentation well here is a video of President Clinton apologizing for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTiONdJJRcw notice he says "military bases"

you said "I also wouldn't believe anything Alisha Owens said She has been proved a liar and also has mental issues.

Alisha Owens was setup by FBI special agent Richard Mott who illegally taped a phone call between her and Troy Boner where Troy lied saying that they made up the sexual abuse story. Unfortunately the jury bought it. Troy later recanted this and said he was told to make up this lie by the FBI they threatened him with imprisonment. Watch the Conspiracy of Silence video thats been floating around the internet for a while now John Decamp actually plays the tape recording of the phone call.
Im sure Alisha has mental issues she spent her teenage years being raped by Robert Wadman getting pregnant by him and having her mother raising their child while she sits in prison on trumped up purjery charges i would be nuts too.

you said "I don't know where you live rbeck but I have lived around the area all my life so I have heard about this story many many times over the years."
I live in Alabama. Unfortunatly alot of people read biased newspapers and local newscasts who get the story wrong more often than getting it right and spread false rumors when a local scandal hits .An outsider looking in can sometimes get a clearer picture.

 

[rbeck]

Info on the Johnny Gosch Case I bet most of you have never heard before.
click on the following links and click past the pop ups and ads to download 7 mp3 files from file factory.com a free file uploading website These mp3 files are from the mysteries of the mind radio show each are 3 hour interviews with Noreen Gosch,Ted Gunderson, John DeCamp, Jim Rothstein, Rusty Nelson from March-April 2005. There is alot of info here if you have the time to spend listening. they are long and commercial free i recommend fast forwarding past the first 25 minutes which have an unrelated guest and topic and is interupted alot by some Spainish music and the Dixie Chicks. the host seems to like them alot.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/176c49/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/108247/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/260c3c/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/e0a938/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/13b51b/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/9c6450/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/806665/

 

[Mr. E]

I checked Noreen's website today to see if it had been updated. It hadn't, but I re-read something about the conference she attended. It said:

"Last September I received a packet of photographs," Gosch said during an abuse prevention conference in Cedar Rapids. The image of a young boy, hog-tied and wearing only his underpants and socks illuminated the wall beside her. "This is my son Johnny near the time when he was kidnapped. His is still 12-years-old in this picture."

I don't know of any of the released photographs that match this description. I think it's possible that there are some verified photos of Johnny that haven't been released to the general public. Maybe they are too disturbing, who knows?

 

[kcksum]

Info on the Johnny Gosch Case I bet most of you have never heard before.
click on the following links and click past the pop ups and ads to download 7 mp3 files from file factory.com a free file uploading website These mp3 files are from the mysteries of the mind radio show each are 3 hour interviews with Noreen Gosch,Ted Gunderson, John DeCamp, Jim Rothstein, Rusty Nelson from March-April 2005. There is alot of info here if you have the time to spend listening. they are long and commercial free i recommend fast forwarding past the first 25 minutes which have an unrelated guest and topic and is interupted alot by some Spainish music and the Dixie Chicks. the host seems to like them alot.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/176c49/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/108247/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/260c3c/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/e0a938/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/13b51b/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/9c6450/

http://www.filefactory.com/file/806665/

rbeck, this is not hot of the presses new information. Most of us here have heard these tapes, read the transcripts, and watched the super duper top secret documentary that everybody in the free world has seen. We are not making our assumptions about Noreen and this case because we haven't read and seen all the info you are linking us to.That's the point, its after listening to the far fetched conspiracy theories of these people that include everything and everyone from aliens to the president molesting kids in the white house, that we have decided that Noreen lost her soul the minute she began associating with these people who see everything and everyone as a conspiracy. I personally believe she may have started out with the best of intentions, but time and stress have just worn her little mind out. She wants so desperately to find out what happened to Johnny, that she believes anyone or anything that comes her way (hence the big fat mess she got into by standing by Patricia Johnson Holmes without checking out how crazy Patricia Johnson Holmes really was). Please don't assume we are all blind to this information, some of us have been here for YEARS discussing this case. With all do respect we know ALL ABOUT the mysteries of the mind interviews and all of these players in the case from DeCamp to Boner.

 

[2sisters]

His home life was great he was active in sports did well in school and had 2 older siblings and a loving good family life before he was abducted by a group of wealthy powerful perverts .his mother was NOT unstable???? why in the world would you assume something like that? there is evidence of abuse after he was kidnapped from one of the abusers themselves (Paul Bonacci) which he now regrets. I seriously recommend you people listen to the interviews Noreen has done on numerous talk shows and you can judge for yourself if she is unstable?? instead of judging her based on her limited literary skills in a poorly edited book! follow these links and try to educate yourselves more on this case.

http://www.solutionassoc.com/truthfire/audio.html Noreen Gosch interview parts 1, 2 and 3

http://www.solutionassoc.com/TruthFire/blog/2005/04/rusty-nelson-interview-this-one-may-be.html rusty nelson interview parts 1 2 and 3

http://www.mysteriesofthemind.com/ click on the archives sections March-April 2005 hopefully the links still work. if not I will gladly send the interviews in MP3 format by email.

interesting quote from Noreen "When i first started talking about pedophile rings who took children 20 years ago people would throw rocks at me they didnt want to hear it"

It looks like people are still throwing rocks and dont want to hear it

I simply asked a question concerning his home life on the angle he may have ran away. I am not sure why you are so defensive unless you are Noreen or are posting for her. People can question this case all they want and can question her and the father all they want, it happens all the time, they are usually the first to look at when a kid vanishes. Just b/c we don't see your angle doesn't mean we are idiots or jerks. You belive her story and I don't care or judge you about it.
The poster who knows the PI doesn't have to post his name, why would she even need to? it would maybe endanger him in some way or hinder his investegation. I don't have a problem with anonymous info on here.
Why in the would would I not question her sanity? I would be unstable too if one of my kids vanished and I didn't know what had happened to him.

 

[rbeck]

Hi I didnt mean to cause any confusion most people havent heard the radio show before I wanted to post these links because Alex Merklingers radio show is off the air and none of his links work now. I have been getting alot of requests from people on another website franklinfiles.com who wanted access to these interviews. I tried emailing them to a few people and I have overloaded their inboxes they are 20mbs a piece. It is easier to upload them to a file hosting website to download.Also another good video to watch is Paul Bonnacci s interview with Ted Gunderson back in 1993 someone has uploaded it to google video and you can find it by doing a search for bonacci it is in 3 parts and is very long

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I feel many people have a hard time believing any type of government conspiracy, honestly how many have ever been proven to be true? I don't think any. It seems any who do think our wonderful government could deceive us are deemed insane, crazy or mentally ill. Heck, even if I did believe in a govenment coverup, I would never admit it for fear of being committed.

What is really interesting is in an on-line poll, (Ohio University, a red state) about 36% of US citizens believe Bush knew of or was apart of the 9-11 attacks ahead of time. The 2 people who actually publicly admitted to thinking that, (O'Donnell and Sheen) are, well...crazy. No one else will admit to thinking it...SO where did the 36% come from? I feel if 36% of Americans believe Bush could blow up thousands of people, those same 36% would think he could have sex with a young boy. Yet they don't... He can be capable of killing them, but not raping them....hummm, strange how people think isn't it?

 

[2sisters]

I think the government is capable of lies and deceit, but I do not belive for a second they are running a child sex operation OR that Bush orchestrated 9/11.
Johnny simply became victim to an opportunistic predator and has been long dead, IMO.

 

[Teresa Larson]

I think the government is capable of lies and deceit, but I do not belive for a second they are running a child sex operation OR that Bush orchestrated 9/11.
Johnny simply became victim to an opportunistic predator and has been long dead, IMO.

I agree totally. Why would the government blow up those buildings and pay billions of dollars out to the people that lost their homes and businesses and the dead peoples families? That doesn't make much sense to me! One man owned those buildings and he had nothing to gain by that happening. If I remember correctly he didn't even have enough insurance to cover both buildings completely. I also think it's ludicrous to think that the government had anything to do with Johnny's disappearance. I think some people's imaginations have gotten out of hand!! A city or county official maybe. Johnny was taken by someone he knew and he has been dead for along time. I think about the only thing any of you can hope for is that some one finds his remains some where around Des Moines IMO even debating these issues is a waste of time.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Oh for heavens sake, I'm not debating 9-11 or even a pedo ring. I have no clue, and frankly my life is probably better if I keep my nose out of it. My whole point is that many more people believe in conspiracies, than will publicly admit it...for fear of being claimed crazy...like Rosie O' Donnell, Charlie Sheen and Noreen Gosch. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with them, though I have to admit they have guts. Just look how bad Noreen is bashed here for her belief, can you imagine what it's been like for her in real life? But she has hung tough all these years... I guess instead of fighting for what SHE believes, she should do something more socially exceptable, like visit the Pope, go jogging, and launch balloons in north Africa.

 

[nanandjim]

I think the government is capable of lies and deceit, but I do not belive for a second they are running a child sex operation OR that Bush orchestrated 9/11.
Johnny simply became victim to an opportunistic predator and has been long dead, IMO.

Agree.

 

[Eire]

I guess instead of fighting for what SHE believes, she should do something more socially exceptable, like visit the Pope, go jogging, and launch balloons in north Africa.

Nobody is implying that. However, what she believes happened is not backed up by any evidence except some people who believe this far-reaching conspiracy took place. Maybe Noreen should at least be willing to explore other avenues is all I'm saying.

I'll try to put it another way and please forgive me if I appear to be condescending, that's not what I'm going for. A certain percentage of our population believes aliens exist and visit our planet regularly. Now, if Noreen were claiming that Johnny was abducted by aliens because she saw him years after and he told her so, should be open to the possibility that aliens took him? Should be explore that possibility and ignore all others? From my perspective, that's exactly what Noreen wants eveyone to do. Ignore every option but a child pedo ring that has supposedly gone on for decades around the globe.

I'm sure lots of people belive in conspiracies without saying so in public. They can believe in any conspriacy they want, I frankly don't care. They can believe any or all of them. I don't believe them and that's my choice as well. Do I think our government is above covert doings? Nope, I sure don't. But, I don't believe we're knee-deep in conspiracies at any given moment.

 

[Mr. E]

Does anyone know what Johnny's home life was like? Was his mom unstable? Was there any evidence of abuse, as Mr. E was thinking?

I was just re-reading Noreen's book, and by her own admission Johnny did NOT have a stable home life. In the chapter "John Gosch...Johnny's Father," Noreen says on p. 74 "John, my husband at that time had never been really a close father to the children, but his treatment of them became not only unfair but also cruel many times. He seemed to have a hatred, which was boiling over into our family life, and he would take it out on the kids. He began to treat my older son, with an unkindness and ridicule daily. He was a good kid and had not done anything to deserve this treatment. The same was true with our daughter and Johnny."

She also talks about her husband's repeated threats to kill himself, even in front of Johnny.

This is not stable. If John Gosch, Sr. was never investigated by LE, he needs to be.

 

[2sisters]

I was just re-reading Noreen's book, and by her own admission Johnny did NOT have a stable home life. In the chapter "John Gosch...Johnny's Father," Noreen says on p. 74 "John, my husband at that time had never been really a close father to the children, but his treatment of them became not only unfair but also cruel many times. He seemed to have a hatred, which was boiling over into our family life, and he would take it out on the kids. He began to treat my older son, with an unkindness and ridicule daily. He was a good kid and had not done anything to deserve this treatment. The same was true with our daughter and Johnny."

She also talks about her husband's repeated threats to kill himself, even in front of Johnny.

This is not stable. If John Gosch, Sr. was never investigated by LE, he needs to be.

I wholeheartedly agree. I feel it is somewhat fishy that he wasn't there that particular morning, especailly now after what you just said.

 

[Mr. E]

She also says in her book that John Sr. received a phone call on the morning of Johnny's disappearance that sounded suspicious. He said, "Yes, alright, yep, alright, okay," then hung up. He said it was a wrong number, but Noreen claims they had been getting "hang-up calls" for months, but this was the first time John Sr. spoke to the other person.

She says her husband compromised a police investigation by talking to a suspect, beat her, "prowled" the neighborhood and hit on teen girls, and paraded a Noreen lookalike around.

These are all suspicious actions. Forget the government, John Sr. should be suspect #1.