The US isn't the only country where a suspect's innocence is presumed. The EU, the UK, Canada and others abide by innocence till proven otherwise. As far as Miranda rights go, no other countries have them as that is a US specific law, but other nations do have their own equivalents, so police reading a suspect his/her rights will sound different. As far as the right to remain silent, other countries have that too - the UK established the right to remain silent in the 1600s under Common Law and the right to remain silent is in Canada's charter.
ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 51
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The US isn't the only country where a suspect's innocence is presumed. The EU, the UK, Canada and others abide by innocence till proven otherwise. As far as Miranda rights go, no other countries have them as that is a US specific law, but other nations do have their own equivalents, so police reading a suspect his/her rights will sound different. As far as the right to remain silent, other countries have that too - the UK established the right to remain silent in the 1600s under Common Law and the right to remain silent is in Canada's charter.
sunshineray
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I have a question, if you know the answer, TIA.You are 100% correct!!! Ill repost w/correct dates. Thank you
Moscow Murders: Timeline
August, 21st 1140 pm
-Alleged KILLER Bryan Kohberger was pulled over by cops 1.5 miles away from the murder house a couple months before the killings
Saturday, Nov. 12
-On the night of Saturday, Nov. 12, Goncalves and Mogen used a private party for a ride home, getting back at 1:45 a.m., police said. Meanwhile, Chapin and Kernodle arrived to the home at about 1:45 a.m. Two survivng roommates returned home by 1 a.m.
Sunday, Nov. 13
-It's believed the four students were killed in the house between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. on Nov. 13.. A dog was also at the home, according to law enforcement.
-At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call from one of the roommate's phones requested help for an unconscious person, police said. Police also said they don't believe the man Goncalves and Mogen tried to contact numerous times on Nov. 13 is involved.
Thursday, Nov. 17
-Autopsies determined all victims were stabbed multiple times, police said. The four students were probably asleep when attacked and some had defensive wounds, police said. There's no sign of sexual assault, police added.
Friday, Nov. 18
-Bryan Kohberger got a new license plate for his Hyundai Elantra five days after the murders, records show. He changed from PA to WA.
Wednesday, Dec. 7
-Police announce they're looking to speak with the driver of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra that was seen "in the immediate area" of the victims' house early on Nov. 13.
Thursday, Dec. 14
-Kohberger and father leave Idaho to depart to Pennsylvania (date unverified)
Friday, Dec. 15
-Kohberger and his father were stopped twice on Dec. 15 while driving east of Indianapolis, both times with the younger Kohberger in the driver's seat. They were first stopped by the Hancock County Sheriff's Office for speeding and then nine minutes later by the Indiana State Police.
Friday, Dec. 30 Bryan Kohberger, was arrested in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains in the early hours of Dec. 30. Windows and doors were broken during the SWAT team forced entrance. Police state they have DNA evidence.
Tuesday, Jan. 3
-Kohberger, agreed to be extradited to Idaho during his Jan. 3 court appearance in Monroe County, Pennsylvania. LaBar said in a statement his client "is eager to be exonerated of these charges and looks forward to resolving these matters as promptly as possible."
-Indiana state regarding indiana pullovers:“After Kohberger's arrest, the sheriff's department and state police said there was no information at the time on the suspect in the Idaho crimes or specific information on the white Hyundai Elantra. The state police added: "The Trooper, having learned the two had been stopped minutes before by a Deputy from the Hancock County Sheriff’s Department, who he knew was working just down the interstate from him, used his discretion and released the two men with a verbal warning."
Tuesday, Jan. 4
-Kohberger departs Pennsylvania with FBI (per FBI request), not US marshals for transport back to Latah County.
-Judge issues gag order in Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger case
-On Jan 4th FOX news reports the FBI ordered the pullovers in Indiana– "A Federal Bureau of Investigation surveillance team tracked Idaho quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger and his father on a cross-country road trip from Washington State to Pennsylvania and asked Indiana police to pull him over, a law enforcement source told Fox News. The law enforcement source told Fox News that the FBI surveillance team was seeking video images of Kohberger as well as his hands. (UNKNOWN SOURCE LE SOURCE). Contradicts state reports
Sources
Idaho murders: FBI directed Indiana police to pull over Bryan Kohberger, seeking video images of his hands
Idaho college murders: Timeline of events
Bryan Kohberger switched license plates after Idaho murders
Police reveal DNA led investigators to suspect in Idaho student murders
Update to Inquiries About Idaho Murder Suspect in Indiana
content.govdelivery.com
Wasn't the Hyundai Elantra BK drove registered in his parent's name and would that switching registration/license plates from one state to another need the owner showing up in person? Or is it all done online now and Idaho wouldn't need to eyeball the vehicle before issuing a switch from out of state?
"Friday, Nov. 18
-Bryan Kohberger got a new license plate for his Hyundai Elantra five days after the murders, records show. He changed from PA to WA"
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m
Yes. Went back and both stops were following too close.
There was a debate in the Daybell case thread a couple of years ago between me and a LEO from UK. She objected to my statement that in the US, LE is only out to get you. "...Anything you say can and will be used against you..."
Apparently in the UK if you fail to give information that could exhonorate you that can be a problem for your defense. If the officer who explained that to me is on this thread perhaps she can explain further. But I took that to mean that your right to remain silent is not as well protect in teh UK as it is here.
DeDee
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When asked, "Why did you do it?"
BK responded, "I didn't do anything." But, he didn't offer up an alibi.
Show me the money!
We are in for one interesting, bumpy journey, folx. Fugitive has been accused of using elaborate or haphazard finesse and brute force with an edge weapon to slaughter 4 college students but declares he didn't do the crimes. Bold? Confident? Conniving? Lying? Misanthrope? Stupid? Honest? Misunderstood?
ALL my humble thoughts while attempting to suppress the strong anger I feel toward this creature.
SophieRose
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8 death row inmates in Idaho. 7 men, 1 woman.
Death Row | Idaho Department of Correction
Ok, thank you for clarifying that. I should have researched that definition first. You’re the best!INDIANA TRAFFIC STOPS as ENTRAPMENT DEFENSE??? NOPE imo
@BeckyF Personally, not seeing BCK (potentially) claiming "entrapment"* as a defense relating to homicide charges against him, imo.
Entrapment involves LE inducing a person to commit a crime which the person would not have otherwise done.
IN. LEOs pulling over BCK for a traffic stop one month+ AFTER the homicides is not subject to an entrapment defense. Homicides occurred a more than month BEFORE the traffic stops, too late for LE to "entrap" BCK.
Maybe post was intended to refer to another legal doctrine like "fruit of the poisonous tree"** which prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial.
Could it potentially apply? If it does, may potentially exclude IN. LEO's pic or vid of BCK's injuries from being ADMITTED AS EVIDENCE at his trial for the four homicides, but wouldmnot be a "defence." Even if pic or cid is excluded, may not even be critical to prosecutor's case.
Always welcoming correction from our legal professionals.
imo jmo moo icbw.
_______________________________________
* Entrapment is a practice in which a law enforcement agent or agent of the state induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1] It "is the conception and planning of an offense by an officer or agent, and the procurement of its commission by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion or fraud of the officer or state agent".[2]
Police conduct rising to the level of entrapment is broadly discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, is available as a defense against criminal liability. Sting operations, through which police officers or agents engage in deception to try to catch persons who are committing crimes, raise concerns about possible entrapment.[3]
Depending on the law in the jurisdiction, the prosecution may be required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped or the defendant may be required to prove that they were entrapped as an affirmative defense."
*Entrapment - Wikipedia.
** "The "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine is an extension of the exclusionary rule, which, subject to some exceptions, prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial...°
Fruit of the poisonous tree - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I'm not sure why this is news. One of the Jan 6 guys challenged his jail's failure to respect his vegan meal preferences and it was upheld by federal courts on constitutional grounds. I'm not a vegan nor do I have much sympathy for what is effectively a first world choice, I think the prison's choices were "respect his meal preference" or "get sued, lose, and respect his meal choices with monetary damages." He may lose those rights on conviction but while he is a simple detainee all of his constitutional rights are intact.
Jinkasaurus, I thought "tempeh" was a spelling error. But lo and behold "Tempeh is a fermented soy product that’s made of cooked, dehulled soybeans that are inoculated with mold, packed, and incubated until the beans are bound together by the mycelium." (oh geesh, moldy food...who would have known?)I don't think a vegan diet in prison will have good long-term results. Its doubtful he would get adequate protein. For vegans to get enough protein they need to eat a larger quantity of food than a diet with meat, eggs, and dairy (as those provide a higher level of protein in a smaller portion). I doubt he will be getting huge tempeh stir fries each night.
Using this calculator, putting in his age, gender, height, weight, and activity level (I chose "low active" - figuring he can do pushups in his cell), and it says he needs 65 grams of protein per day.
I just don't see how small county jails could possibly provide specialty cooks for each inmates culinary predilections. But everything about this case has me wide-eyed and surprised with every page. @ Elley Mae wrote BK would be on a plane and back to Idaho the same day he went to court....and lo and behold, absolutely nailed it!!
And lastly, just wondering if anything was reported taken/missing from the CSI Lab at WSU?
OrlandoJames
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This is simply not true. The right to remain silent and the presumption of innocence is just as robust in the UK and Europe as it is in the US.
That's very possible, but still the US isn't the only country with the right to remain silent or presumption of innocence.
I found a fairly decent link (I hope it's allowed). I find this kind of stuff so interesting, helps me learn more about some of the cases I like to follow.
Comparing the "Right to Remain Silent" in the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada
The right to remain silent involves choosing not to engage with police questioning without the presence of legal counsel.
fightthecharges.com
[Blushing]
--- an exclusionary rule which prevents certain evidence from being introduced at trial and
--- a defense which can be the basis for "letting the defendant off" i.e., being found not guilty, *if* believed by a jury.
Again welcoming comment/correction, esp'ly by our legal professionals.
@BeckyF No worries. Easy to be confused about ---
--- an exclusionary rule which prevents certain evidence from being introduced at trial and
--- a defense which can be the basis for "letting the defendant off" i.e., being found not guilty, *if* believed by a jury.
Again welcoming comment/correction, esp'ly by our legal professionals.
katydid23
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I understand what you're saying---he is a danger to the public if he is indeed a murderer. But I think the difference is that he is with his father, stopping to buy gas, stopping to eat meals. None of those people he runs into there are seen as a threat to him. He is just trying to get back to his childhood home. And he is not in a desperate situation needing to rob the gas station, etc.
But when he looks into his rearview and sees flashing lights---he must have had quite the shot of adrenaline seeing that. Those are dicey situations to traffic cops because they represent what a murder suspect is most afraid of---being arrested and going to jail for life. So cops don't like to walk up, unarmed and alone, on a fleeing felon. Many officers have died doing just that.
esayer
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esayer
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OK but that's an old link. The fox news one is more recent.
Certainly possible but seems unlikely. This would be a pretext stop. Courts have wavered on whether information gathered from pretext stops is admissible in major cases. Just seems like a huge risk with little to gain. But if the PCA notes observed cuts during a traffic stop we will know!
esayer
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I'm just slingin links IDK...believe what you will.
In Canada, and some other countries, a suspect can be questioned without a lawyer for a specific amount of time, but in the USA as soon as a suspect requests a lawyer the questioning stops.
Commonwealth Nations (56 countries) presume innocence because the legal system is based on the British system. In Canada, people can be re-tried after being found not guilty (prosecution can appeal), in the USA not guilty means never another trial (prosecution cannot appeal). In Italy, the prosecution can appeal (Roman Law), but it's not a Commonwealth Nation.
I read that the suspect invoked "lawyer" after 15 minutes. Police could no longer question him, correct? In Canada, they could continue questioning him but he has no obligation to answer. The questioning gets under their skin and they confess.
WingsOverTX
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RBBM
Unarmed? Are we sure about that?
Every traffic stop in every jurisdiction can potentially threaten the life of responding LE. They are trained to know how to handle themselves, but yes, they are sometimes crime victims. It's a risk of the job, no matter how well-prepared & skillful they are.
I think the responders at these two stops would say it's all in a day's work. They really never know what they will encounter although some highways & jurisdictions have known dangers, such as drug running.
When you put on the badge, you never know the risks until you encounter them. That's just the way it is.
Approaching BK with backup/more officers would have been a red flag to BK & likelier to create escalation IMO.
JMO
ETA: Removed thread not connected to this post
Nova
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Just IMHO, but I think states have so many traffic laws there is almost ALWAYS probable cause to stop a car, and usually sooner rather than later.
Here in California you can be ticketed for speeding, of course, and also for driving too slowly. But you can also be charged for going exactly the speed limit if CHP decides you are "interfering with the flow of traffic", i.e., everybody else exceeding the speed limit around you! I've lived here for over 35 years and I've never heard anyone claim to get a ticket this way, but the DMV drivers' manual mentions the possibility.
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